XBox One AND PS4 Discussion

[dbdynsty25]

Regardless of the merits of either system, it's going to be interesting to see if MS can pull of the PR needed for damage control. They've been utterly slaughtered in the post-announcement geekisphere, and that's not going to change without some serious marketing kung-fu.

I doubt they are too worried about it. It's still four-five months away before they have to actually sell the device. And with companies like Amazon already cutting off pre-orders, they can claim it's already sold out and the Apple-like hype machine will be in full effect, even for a 500 dollar machine. They, and Sony for that matter will be fine.

[GameSeven]

Microsoft already offers some enticing "Steam" like sales on downloads. Recently they had dark Souls for $10. I picked up Dirt 2 for $5 and GTA 4 for $10. Not quite as good as Steam offering all the GTA's for $12.50, but its a start.
And I've bought (too) many XBLA games and DLC packs on sale for 50-75% off.

Right, and I think they'd do well to continue and highlight these. (Free, and non-expiring) Games for Gold is also a nice initiative. While some argue the games are old, I had a passing interest in Fable 3 and never bought it. And I believe Assassin's Creed 2 is the other incoming free title.

The thing is, while I think the ire against MS has been disproportionate based upon available information, they *are* seeking something of a landscape change and they'd do well to offer a carrot with that stick to effect this type of change.

Giving some concessions in view of what is being taken away would be smart business. Microsoft's inability to articulate something better is wholly on them, but is likely tied up in a bit of nebulous planning that they haven't quite settled themselves. Of course, they *should* have been prepared for this, but rarely are console launches without hiccups. But to declare MS has already lost next-gen would seem ludicrous to me.

[webdanzer]

So...what exactly is the deal with this camera and privacy concerns? Are people at MS going to be watching us?

I posted about this earlier in the thread, but MS patented a way to reward viewers with achievements for watching ads. Basically, the camera can be used for data-mining to sell to advertisers. Confirmed watches of ads or TV programs, number and demographic nature of the viewers, etc. Dunno if there is anything more nefarious that that, and as Rob stated earlier some users are more than willing to give up some privacy if it yields them some benefit.

Other users may be frustrated that the system requires such usage because they may just want to fire the system up and play Halo, and not have to worry or wonder about internet connected camera scans (and being forced to help pay for the camera's inclusion in the price of the hardware.)

[LAking]

So...what exactly is the deal with this camera and privacy concerns? Are people at MS going to be watching us?

I posted about this earlier in the thread, but MS patented a way to reward viewers with achievements for watching ads. Basically, the camera can be used for data-mining to sell to advertisers. Confirmed watches of ads or TV programs, number and demographic nature of the viewers, etc. Dunno if there is anything more nefarious that that, and as Rob stated earlier some users are more than willing to give up some privacy if it yields them some benefit.

Other users may be frustrated that the system requires such usage because they may just want to fire the system up and play Halo, and not have to worry or wonder about internet connected camera scans (and being forced to help pay for the camera's inclusion in the price of the hardware.)

Why would they need a camera for that? The only benefit a camera ads to this situation is being able to see if there are multiple people in the room viewing ads but how often does that happen? They already have surveys they can give you when signing up for xbox live or registering your xbox to find out how many people live in your household.

Do you have a source for this information? It just seems really far fetched. A spy camera in every household seems like a pretty old fashioned way of trying to track a person's viewing habits. Seems like a 1949 George Orwell version of the future, not something that makes much sense today.

[webdanzer]

Do you have a source for this information? It just seems really far fetched. A spy camera in every household seems like a pretty old fashioned way of trying to track a person's viewing habits. Seems like a 1949 George Orwell version of the future, not something that makes much sense today.

It's pretty widely covered on the 'net.

Here is the patent info:

http://www.google.com/patents/US20130125161

And some links:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201305 ... sing.shtml

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/27/43706 ... ements-ads

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... rce=feedly

EDIT:

Some language from the patent:

Method 200 includes, at 210, receiving one or more user- specific reports of all linear video content viewing behaviors of the user while using each of a plurality of different applications. In some embodiments, the user-specific reports include viewing behaviors of the user across a plurality of devices. The user-specific reports of linear content viewing behaviors may be received from any device on which the user watches linear video content. For example, a user may watch linear video content on a television, computer, and mobile phone, and each of these devices may be configured to track the viewing behavior of the user and send a user-specific report to the promotional service (e.g., via a common user identification).

In some embodiments, each device may compile a report that includes all viewing behaviors of the user across all applications on that device. In other embodiments, each device may compile a separate report for the viewing behaviors of the user for each application. In another embodiment, each device may notify the promotional service of every instance of a viewing behavior, and the reports may be compiled at the promotional service. In a further embodiment, each application may be configured to track the viewing behaviors across all user devices that include that application, and each application may send a report that includes the viewing behavior from all devices of the user.

The reports may be aggregated by the promotional service and collectively used to determine if the user-viewing goal has been met. Thus, at 212, method 200 includes determining if the one or more user-specific reports collectively indicate the user-viewing goal has been reached. If the user-specific reports do not indicate the user-viewing goal has been met, method 200 returns to 210 to continue to receive the one or more user-specific reports. If it is determined at 212 that the user-viewing goal has been met, method 200 proceeds to 214 to grant a physical and/or virtual award to the user. Granting the award may be done by the remote service itself, or granting the award may include indicating to another system that the award should be granted. For example, the promotional service itself may not be configured to grant the award. As such, granting an award to the user may include notifying an application to grant the award at 216. Alternatively or additionally, granting the award to the user may include notifying a digital media delivery service to grant an award to the user at 218.

[vader29]

Kinect for Xbox One: An always-on, works-in-the-dark camera and microphone. What could possibly go wrong?

And then there’s the privacy aspect. With the Xbox One, Kinect is constantly on, so that you can navigate around the console with voice and gesture commands. This means that that you’re constantly being watched by an IR camera that can see in the dark, and a microphone that’s constantly listening for your audio cues. Even more terrifyingly, you can turn on the Xbox One with a voice command — yes, even when the Xbox One is off, Kinect is still listening. What if a developer goes rogue and develops malware that snoops on you? What if someone develops Xbox One malware that records what goes on in your child’s bedroom, even when the console appears to be turned off?

Microsoft, for its part, says that privacy across all of its products is a “top priority,” and that “Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment.” As we know from experience, though, no system is invulnerable to the manifold attack vectors exploited by malware authors. The Xbox and Xbox 360 were chipped/modded/rooted, and it’s fairly safe to assume that the Xbox One will also suffer the same fate. The point is: The Xbox One is constantly listening and watching, Microsoft needs to make these feeds available to developers, and it’s really only a matter of time until those feeds are subverted — either by a legitimate app developer, or by someone who shouldn’t have access.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/15651 ... y-go-wrong

[GameSeven]

Some language from the patent:

Certainly Kinect fits into this strategy, although I would think there would be serious restrictions on employing it in this fashion without some sort of opt-in (although reading the fine print on any XB1 activation contract probably warrants some additional scrutiny). I don't fear surreptitious surveillance any more than with phones or tablets.

[webdanzer]

Some language from the patent:

Certainly Kinect fits into this strategy, although I would think there would be serious restrictions on employing it in this fashion without some sort of opt-in (although reading the fine print on any XB1 activation contract probably warrants some additional scrutiny). I don't fear surreptitious surveillance any more than with phones or tablets.

Probably true, and yes, I would read those 'I agree' screens carefully before clicking any buttons . But the thing regarding this is --just like the DRM check-in and the restriction of ownership rights -- is that
it's a feature added for the benefit of the console makers, and publishers...not the gamer.

In my own personal evaluation, there is too much of this in the One, without giving me anything comparable in benefits.

[Pete1210]

Kinect for Xbox One: An always-on, works-in-the-dark camera and microphone. What could possibly go wrong?

And then there’s the privacy aspect. With the Xbox One, Kinect is constantly on, so that you can navigate around the console with voice and gesture commands. This means that that you’re constantly being watched by an IR camera that can see in the dark, and a microphone that’s constantly listening for your audio cues. Even more terrifyingly, you can turn on the Xbox One with a voice command — yes, even when the Xbox One is off, Kinect is still listening. What if a developer goes rogue and develops malware that snoops on you? What if someone develops Xbox One malware that records what goes on in your child’s bedroom, even when the console appears to be turned off?

Microsoft, for its part, says that privacy across all of its products is a “top priority,” and that “Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment.” As we know from experience, though, no system is invulnerable to the manifold attack vectors exploited by malware authors. The Xbox and Xbox 360 were chipped/modded/rooted, and it’s fairly safe to assume that the Xbox One will also suffer the same fate. The point is: The Xbox One is constantly listening and watching, Microsoft needs to make these feeds available to developers, and it’s really only a matter of time until those feeds are subverted — either by a legitimate app developer, or by someone who shouldn’t have access.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/15651 ... y-go-wrong

Avoiding the Kinect2 because you think it'll be spying or get hacked to spy on you?

Well, maybe you better ditch your wifi router too!

"A team at the University of Washington has rigged a standard Wi-Fi home network to detect your movements anywhere in the home and convert them into commands to control connected devices...

The team put together a prototype piece of hardware to demonstrate WiSee, but any modern Wi-Fi router should do the trick, too, with a bit of custom software. With no special devices to buy, this could be the cheapest gesture-recognition tech yet."

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/wi-fi ... 6C10194118

[GameSeven]

Kinect for Xbox One: An always-on, works-in-the-dark camera and microphone. What could possibly go wrong?

Eh... I get that platform security is of the utmost importance (see: the PSN hacks and identity compromises) and nefarious individuals will always seek to exploit the hardware, but with the generally closed platform that XBOX has been, I can't recall ever hearing of malware on a non-chipped MS console before. Not saying it won't happen, but the "it sees in the dark" thing smacks of sensationalism.

But maybe I should put a killswitch on the thing anyway

[Danimal]

Pretty sure this is how skynet started...

[webdanzer]

Pretty sure this is how skynet started...

Nah, the singularity is 16 years away, still. This generation shouldn't last THAT long.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/0 ... 38306.html

[Rodster]

And so the fallout begins: "Staunchly anti-DRM Witcher 3 dev CD Projekt responds to Xbox One policy concerns"

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... y-concerns

[Danimal]

Pretty sure this is how skynet started...

Nah, the singularity is 16 years away, still. This generation shouldn't last THAT long.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/0 ... 38306.html

This forum is in dire need of a like or thumbs up button on posts

[vader29]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/12/ ... -microsoft

In an interview filmed prior to Microsoft’s E3 2013 press briefing and published on GameTrailers, Microsoft’s Don Mattrick has addressed concerns about the compulsory connectivity requirements of Xbox One.

“"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it’s called Xbox 360,” said Mattrick.

“If you have zero access to the Internet, that is an offline device.”

That's not arrogant????

Foot in Mouth in Action :

[Danimal]

I was so thinking that guy was going to die in that video. Is there an alternate ending?

LMAO what a society we live in.

[fanatic]

Another nice thing about the PS4 for me is that I still have a Vita kicking around. If Sony makes good on their promise to have every PS4 game playable via wireless on the Vita, you have a really good combo going.

PS Plus has also been a pleasant surprise for me since signing up a couple of months ago - I've downloaded the following games for free thus far.....Uncharted (Vita), Gravity Rush (Vita), Wipeout (Vita), Catherine (PS3), Sleeping Dogs (PS3) and this month X-Com and others are coming for free. If you factor in the odd discounts as well (I saved about $10 on the Walking Dead Complete Edition), then I think you're getting great value.

[F308GTB]

I've been a fan of the Xbox/360 primarily due to the controller. The PS controllers just aren't as natural feeling as the MS controllers, but frankly, I'm willing to look past that. I've been itching for a steering wheel for my 360 and PS3 games, and since the Fanatec Forza wheel is compatible with both 360 and PS3 (as well as PC), and Fanatec appears to be on the cusp of full support of their legacy products with the PS4 (due to standard/non-proprietary USB ports), when the time comes Sony make take precedence over MS.

Even with these consoles coming out, I still feel the current generation still has a LOT of life left in them. I did not feel that way in the past.

[wco81]

Another nice thing about the PS4 for me is that I still have a Vita kicking around. If Sony makes good on their promise to have every PS4 game playable via wireless on the Vita, you have a really good combo going.

PS Plus has also been a pleasant surprise for me since signing up a couple of months ago - I've downloaded the following games for free thus far.....Uncharted (Vita), Gravity Rush (Vita), Wipeout (Vita), Catherine (PS3), Sleeping Dogs (PS3) and this month X-Com and others are coming for free. If you factor in the odd discounts as well (I saved about $10 on the Walking Dead Complete Edition), then I think you're getting great value.

Yeah but OTOH, that feature would get more used if it streamed to other tablets and phones, instead of a product which sold very poorly.

They should just support their controllers on phones and tablets and then stream to these other devices, as well as the Vita.

[Teal]

Kinect for Xbox One: An always-on, works-in-the-dark camera and microphone. What could possibly go wrong?

And then there’s the privacy aspect. With the Xbox One, Kinect is constantly on, so that you can navigate around the console with voice and gesture commands. This means that that you’re constantly being watched by an IR camera that can see in the dark, and a microphone that’s constantly listening for your audio cues. Even more terrifyingly, you can turn on the Xbox One with a voice command — yes, even when the Xbox One is off, Kinect is still listening. What if a developer goes rogue and develops malware that snoops on you? What if someone develops Xbox One malware that records what goes on in your child’s bedroom, even when the console appears to be turned off?

Microsoft, for its part, says that privacy across all of its products is a “top priority,” and that “Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment.” As we know from experience, though, no system is invulnerable to the manifold attack vectors exploited by malware authors. The Xbox and Xbox 360 were chipped/modded/rooted, and it’s fairly safe to assume that the Xbox One will also suffer the same fate. The point is: The Xbox One is constantly listening and watching, Microsoft needs to make these feeds available to developers, and it’s really only a matter of time until those feeds are subverted — either by a legitimate app developer, or by someone who shouldn’t have access.



http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/15651 ... y-go-wrong

Far too many "what ifs" for this to be much more than tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

[sportdan30]

I was so thinking that guy was going to die in that video. Is there an alternate ending?

LMAO what a society we live in.

There's another video where he summarizes the PS4 and its E3 presentation. He actually sounds intelligent and makes solid points. I think he's either schizo, or his tirades are all an act. I think it's probably the latter. Or he has a twin brother!

[vader29]

I was so thinking that guy was going to die in that video. Is there an alternate ending?

LMAO what a society we live in.

There's another video where he summarizes the PS4 and its E3 presentation. He actually sounds intelligent and makes solid points. I think he's either schizo, or his tirades are all an act. I think it's probably the latter. Or he has a twin brother!

The Francis videos are just a character he does for fun and is not his real personality.

[MizzouRah]

Please don't take my words to heart, long day yesterday and I've been an asshole since the loss of our Golden Retriever.

Mizz: my condolences, for your loss. Had a Manchester Terrier which were member of the family. Know how you feel


far as E3: not interested in either future console, at this time. That said, my vote is for Sony and don't expect that will change. For me, the mandatory internet connection and Microsoft's zeal to restrict freedoms for vidgame usage are definite red lights.

not too long ago, i remember being anti-Playstation and in favor of Microsoft and their brand new suitcase sized Xbox. And i couldn't wait to purchase one (and did). Fast forward to 2013 and Microsoft (Xbox One) have completely alienated me as a potential customer. To me, their decisions and marketing are sucicide, but that's me. And whether i borrow/lend/buy/sell used games etc, it doesn't matter and it's not the point. I will personally boycott their system, to deliver a F*ck you, to their decision makers. How can I? Because other options are available.

far as software, the #1 vidgame on my radar is MAD MAX. A film (Mad Max 2 specifically) which is actually not overrated IMO, is what the medium of videogames exist for. Hopefully the makers of Just Cause will be faithful to it's production and origins.

Thank you Vinny.

[Teal]

Very good article, and very valid points made by the guy...
http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-eng ... id-points/

[Rodster]

If they had just eliminated retail disc and moved forward to e-purchases the XONE ordeal probably would have gone over better with the press and gamers. They did it with XBL when they first rolled it out and said DSL/High Speed internet only.

They were truthful and people said OK if those are the rules fine. Sony sucked with the PS2 and online. So I still say it would have been better if MS just said XONE requires all purchases to be made using real currency via XBL. They would have been the gate keeper and paid the devs accordingly just like Steam does.