R.I.P. those affected by the school shooting in CT

[Teal]

I thought this article made some good points, including (but not limited to) how people throw around the terms semi-automatic, automatic, and assault with no real understanding of what they actually mean:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/ ... n-control/

Is there something to a "gun-free zone" being a hunting ground for the sick-minded where they know they'll encounter no resistance? A little uncertainty can be a good thing. It might be why 50% of burglaries in England are "hot" burglaries (home invasions in other words) as opposed to 10% in the U.S.

And yet Columbine apparently had armed guards.

That's a very long, yet very thorough, piece, and should be required reading for EVERYONE. EVERYWHERE. And absolutely, positively, without question, there is something to the gun free zone being a hunting ground. It's one of the most basic of instincts. "Fire burns. Don't touch fire."

I'm all for teachers who are trained, capable, and can pass backgrounds checks to conceal carry. Not every teacher, for sure, because as Toon referenced, there are some serious nutjobs in teachers' clothing.

Please. Read the Larry Correia piece. Start to finish. He's a novelist, so prepare to read a bit, but it's the best thing out there to give proper perspective to the ready, fire, aim crap that comes from the media and the government.

[Teal]

But the NRA press conference was pretty bizarre. Videogames like Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse are to blame... really?

The very people who say violent films and video games had no bearing on the Sandy Hook shootings, believe a video caused Benghazi. If what one sees on TV and in movies has no affect on us why do smart businessmen pay mountains of dollars to advertise their goods and services on TV and at the movies? Why does the government itself buy advertising? As a gun owner,gamer and a person that enjoys action flicks, I have to admit commercials and reviews peaked my interest into buying but I've never had the inclination to do anything evil because of my hobbies. A mentally unstable person like the shooter in CT....maybe. In a tweet this weekend, Obama aide David Axelrod wrote, "In NFL post-game: an ad for shoot ‘em up video game. All for curbing weapons of war. But shouldn't we also quit marketing murder as a game?” It looks like all these things are on the politicians plate in the wake of this tragedy.

+1. It isn't universal (nothing really is), but to say that our media saturated culture isn't affected by it is ludicrous. Not everyone is affected in the same way, which is why, despite the media frenzy and onslaught, that events like CT are extremely rare.

[pk500]

Maybe I'm the only one who sees the hypocrisy of the most staunch defenders of the Second Amendment using the most staunch defenders of the First Amendment -- the media -- as a scapegoat for the violence problem in America. NRA members, generally a conservative lot, love to call gun ownership one of the basic freedoms of Americans protected by the Constitution. Aren't freedom of speech and freedom of the press two of those basic, Constitutionally protected freedoms, as well?

There are two genies in this situation that aren't swirling back into their respective bottles any time soon. One is the sheer number of guns in circulation in America, 88 per 100 people. The U.S. is the most armed nation on Earth, per capita. The other is the sheer volume of media proliferating in this new Internet age and the 24/7 coverage saturation generated by the voracious appetite of the public for more information and entertainment. There's more media than ever, and it's almost all instant and in your face.

Americans love guns. Americans also love to read and watch guns in action through their books, TV shows, games and movies.

The proliferation of the arming of America and the proliferation of violence in American media are linked hand in hand, along with a serious lack of understanding and treatment of mental health issues. These are the Siamese triplets of American mass shootings.

[RobVarak]

Maybe I'm the only one who sees the hypocrisy of the most staunch defenders of the Second Amendment using the most staunch defenders of the First Amendment -- the media -- as a scapegoat for the violence problem in America.

Not the only one.

[Teal]

Who's trying to "destroy the first amendment"? Geez Louise. Stupid people have the freedom to say stupid things. Other people have the freedom to call it stupid. What's the problem?

[pk500]

Who's trying to "destroy the first amendment"? Geez Louise. Stupid people have the freedom to say stupid things. Other people have the freedom to call it stupid. What's the problem?

The problem is the "liberal media" has become a convenient, yet inaccurate, crutch for all the ills of conservative America. It's a complete crock of sh*t because conservative views have achieved more traction through the media in the last 25 years through the media than liberal views, with the proliferation of conservative talk radio (Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, etc.) and the growth of FOX News.

When I was a kid in the 70s and early 80s, all of the media was liberal. The scions were the three major networks, the New York Times and the Washington Post. The right wing has a far larger media megaphone now than 30 years ago, yet it continues to lambaste the "liberal media" as the root of evil.

The right wing needs to find a mirror first and then look to poke holes in the liberal elites. Infallibility never is a smart strategy.

[DivotMaker]

1) The problem is the "liberal media" has become a convenient, yet inaccurate, crutch for all the ills of conservative America. It's a complete crock of sh*t because conservative views have achieved more traction through the media in the last 25 years through the media than liberal views, with the proliferation of conservative talk radio (Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, etc.) and the growth of FOX News.

2) When I was a kid in the 70s and early 80s, all of the media was liberal. The scions were the three major networks, the New York Times and the Washington Post. The right wing has a far larger media megaphone now than 30 years ago, yet it continues to lambaste the "liberal media" as the root of evil.

3) The right wing needs to find a mirror first and then look to poke holes in the liberal elites. Infallibility never is a smart strategy.

I'm going to try to respond to this without this becoming political because it is damn difficult to discuss the mainstream media without discussion the political leanings of the liberal and conservative media.

1) And you don't see the liberal media saying the same things about the conservative media? To me, the liberal media has a FAR MORE traction than Fox News or any of the conservative voices. IMO, the liberal media damn near drowns out the conservative media. The conservative media has a LONG way to go to even catch up to the voices heard by the liberal media.

2) In the 60's, 70's, and 80's, the media was nowhere near as "liberal" as it is today, IMO. Where is the outcry regarding Benghazi? Where is the outcry regarding the Fiscal cliff? Where is the outcry over John Kerry being recommended for Secretary of State? Are you kidding me? If either of the Bush's or Ronald Reagan had pulled the s*** that this administration has, the "liberal media" would have been ALL OVER them relentlessly and yet this Administration gets a pass. Now this administration is doing the usual knee-jerk reaction and obama is looking to change the 2nd Amendment. This senseless shooting and the others that have proceeded it ARE serious issues that need far more than a 1-2 week window to decide "what to do about it".

3) I actually agree with you. The conservative voice has lost its vision and is very splintered. I consider myself a Moderate as there are liberal principles I believe in, but that is saying something since I grew up in a staunchly conservative home and community in Texas. The conservatives have to find their way and learn that there is give an take and while the word "liberal" does not always have to stand for something bad, neither does the word conservative. At the end of the day, we have a country IMO, that has lost sight of right and wrong, lost sight of the fact that entitlement is a 4-letter word and we did not get to be a great nation by sitting on our asses and expecting to get something for it, and we need to learn that both sides liberal and conservative have good ideas, but we need to find a way to get to some sort of middle ground and we need leaders from both sides to help facilitate this. I believe we have had this situation for years, but I do believe the media has some culpability in perpetuating the split as well as many Americans who are too lazy to educate themselves instead of relying on strictly "liberal" or "conservative" media outlets.

I respect your opinions Paul, I just see things a bit differently. However, unlike many in the US, I think you and I could coexist peacefully and productively because a difference of opinions should not be something that drags this country into the shitter, it should be something that makes it greater, IMHO.

[DivotMaker]

Double post, sorry.

[MERACE]

Americans who are too lazy to educate themselves instead of relying on strictly "liberal" or "conservative" media outlets.

I respect your opinions Paul, I just see things a bit differently. However, unlike many in the US, I think you and I could coexist peacefully and productively because a difference of opinions should not be something that drags this country into the shitter, it should be something that makes it greater, IMHO.

Bingo!


-MERACE

[Jackdog]

I respect your opinions Paul, I just see things a bit differently. However, unlike many in the US, I think you and I could coexist peacefully and productively because a difference of opinions should not be something that drags this country into the shitter, it should be something that makes it greater, IMHO.

I agree with most of your post. The last part is spot on in my opinion as well. This has been a very civil exchange of ideas. We've come a long way since the 08 elections. I know I have. Unfortunately the country hasn't. It gets old to see insults preface a different opinion. What happened to tolerance? Hell what happened to adult conversation? Why all the hate? I remember when tragedies like this used to unite this country. Now it seems to deepen the divide. I blame the media on both sides for stoking the fires. I agree with your opinion,the lack of interest people have to find out the truth is unbelievable. They let themselves be spoon fed biased news without fact checking for themselves. That stops civil debate in it's tracks. Debate like we are having here is not happening where it's needed most,Washington. Pretty disappointing. I have no idea how this all will shake out. At this point all I care about is stopping kids from being slaughtered. Sadly it's been going on in the streets of our cities long before this tragedy.

[pk500]

I respect your opinions Paul, I just see things a bit differently. However, unlike many in the US, I think you and I could coexist peacefully and productively because a difference of opinions should not be something that drags this country into the shitter, it should be something that makes it greater, IMHO.

I agree with most of your post. The last part is spot on in my opinion as well. This has been a very civil exchange of ideas. We've come a long way since the 08 elections. I know I have. Unfortunately the country hasn't. It gets old to see insults preface a different opinion. What happened to tolerance? Hell what happened to adult conversation? Why all the hate? I remember when tragedies like this used to unite this country. Now it seems to deepen the divide. I blame the media on both sides for stoking the fires. I agree with your opinion,the lack of interest people have to find out the truth is unbelievable. They let themselves be spoon fed biased news without fact checking for themselves. That stops civil debate in it's tracks. Debate like we are having here is not happening where it's needed most,Washington. Pretty disappointing. I have no idea how this all will shake out. At this point all I care about is stopping kids from being slaughtered. Sadly it's been going on in the streets of our cities long before this tragedy.

Right on.

[Feanor]

I'm going to try to respond to this without this becoming political because it is damn difficult to discuss the mainstream media without discussion the political leanings of the liberal and conservative media.

1) And you don't see the liberal media saying the same things about the conservative media? To me, the liberal media has a FAR MORE traction than Fox News or any of the conservative voices. IMO, the liberal media damn near drowns out the conservative media. The conservative media has a LONG way to go to even catch up to the voices heard by the liberal media.

2) In the 60's, 70's, and 80's, the media was nowhere near as "liberal" as it is today, IMO. Where is the outcry regarding Benghazi? Where is the outcry regarding the Fiscal cliff? Where is the outcry over John Kerry being recommended for Secretary of State? Are you kidding me? If either of the Bush's or Ronald Reagan had pulled the s*** that this administration has, the "liberal media" would have been ALL OVER them relentlessly and yet this Administration gets a pass. Now this administration is doing the usual knee-jerk reaction and obama is looking to change the 2nd Amendment. This senseless shooting and the others that have proceeded it ARE serious issues that need far more than a 1-2 week window to decide "what to do about it".

Your attempt to be non-political was a failure. Why are you bringing up John Kerry in a thread about the CT shootings? The reason there is no outcry over him being nominated for Secretary of State is because he has widespread, bipartisan political support in the Senate. There was enough outcry over Benghazi to torpedo Obama's original nominee, and the outcry over the Fiscal Cliff is aimed at both sides, as it should be.

And your claim that Obama is looking to change the second ammendment is not true.

I'm kind of surprised, although maybe I shouldn't be, at the lack of any change in the gun control debates post Heller v. D.C.

Both sides of the argument seem so wed to talking points made over the previous decade that they are unable to recognize the new legal reality: The Supreme Court has recognized a clear individual right to bear arms. There will be no outright Federal ban on gun ownership.

So for all the pro-gun people out there suggesting that re-instituting the "assault weapons" ban or passing more restrictive measures on what guns are legal is some sort of slippery slope are either ignorant or demagogues. I'm fully aware of the stupidity of the way the 90's ban was drawn and the unintended consequences of the law. But I'm also aware of the fact that any argument which begins with the premise that a previous law failed is nothing more than stupid. A new law can be better. It may or may not end up that way, but it can be.

[Teal]

Your attempt to be non-political was a failure. Why are you bringing up John Kerry in a thread about the CT shootings? The reason there is no outcry over him being nominated for Secretary of State is because he has widespread, bipartisan political support in the Senate. There was enough outcry over Benghazi to torpedo Obama's original nominee, and the outcry over the Fiscal Cliff is aimed at both sides, as it should be.

At least he attempted, Feanor. Sheesh. As to your question of why he brought up "X" in a thread about the CT shootings, I could legitimately ask the same question about 'gun control' being brought up, but...well, I suppose that's "political". Yet it's perfectly acceptable, apparently, to keep throwing the same nonsensical, kneejerk, politically motivated overreactions out there, because "the intentions are good".

Yep. And hell is paved with brick after brick of them...

Seriously...could we not start the long black train to the death of this thread? Hm?

[DivotMaker]

Your attempt to be non-political was a failure. Why are you bringing up John Kerry in a thread about the CT shootings? The reason there is no outcry over him being nominated for Secretary of State is because he has widespread, bipartisan political support in the Senate. There was enough outcry over Benghazi to torpedo Obama's original nominee, and the outcry over the Fiscal Cliff is aimed at both sides, as it should be.

And your claim that Obama is looking to change the second ammendment is not true.

I said I would try, but to be perfectly blunt, you can't have any sort of meaningful discussion about the media without politics. So excuse me for stomping on your delicate sensitivities. I'll stop right here because I disagree with everything you responded with.

Good day to you.

[pk500]

Looks like volunteer firemen are the next service group that needs to be armed to the gills:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... -trap?lite

WTF is wrong with people. On Christmas Eve, of all days.

[Teal]

Sons of bitches like that shouldn't be housed by our taxes; they should be eliminated from the gene pool before they do something like that again.
Killed his grandmother with a hammer? Gallows, meet idiot.

Yep. Arm the firefighters.

[Jackdog]

Looks like volunteer firemen are the next service group that needs to be armed to the gills:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... -trap?lite

WTF is wrong with people. On Christmas Eve, of all days.

Whoever offered the sick bastard a plea bargain from 2nd degree murder to manslaughter for beating his 92-year old grandmother to death with a hammer should be outed. The people of NY should ask how is a dangerous sociopath like this not incarcerated for life? They should call upon Governor Cuomo to engage in a detailed and responsible dialogue as to why the criminal justice system failed so miserably in this case, and how such a miscarriage of justice will be prevented in the future. Disgusting.

[DivotMaker]

Whoever offered the sick bastard a plea bargain from 2nd degree murder to manslaughter for beating his 92-year old grandmother to death with a hammer should be outed. The people of NY should ask how is a dangerous sociopath like this not incarcerated for life? They should call upon Governor Cuomo to engage in a detailed and responsible dialogue as to why the criminal justice system failed so miserably in this case, and how such a miscarriage of justice will be prevented in the future. Disgusting.

Could not agree more. However, in this day and age, it will be swept under the rug just like other atrocities we hear about and don't hear about....this country has some seriously f***ed up people in it.....

[dbdynsty25]

This sh*t is so annoying to me.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/bow ... wn-victims

Why on earth does everyone only remember the 26 people that died inside the school @ Sandy Hook and not the mother? 27 people were killed and yet nearly every single tribute, article or whatever only refer to who was in the school. I guess the woman who spawned the monster doesn't count?

[Teal]

This sh*t is so annoying to me.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/bow ... wn-victims

Why on earth does everyone only remember the 26 people that died inside the school @ Sandy Hook and not the mother? 27 people were killed and yet nearly every single tribute, article or whatever only refer to who was in the school. I guess the woman who spawned the monster doesn't count?

Oh, they consider her an evil little b*tch who deserved to die for daring to own the guns in the first place...

[Jackdog]

Chicago has been crazy this year. Murder rate is currently quadruple that of New York. Culture of gangs and shoot first philosophy is out of control. 60 innocent children killed this year,260 over the last 3. I had no idea it was this bad. Where in the hell has the media been on this?

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... tears-them

[Danimal]

Chicago has been crazy this year. Murder rate is currently quadruple that of New York. Culture of gangs and shoot first philosophy is out of control. 60 innocent children killed this year,260 over the last 3. I had no idea it was this bad. Where in the hell has the media been on this?

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... tears-them

A. It's on the news every night in the Chicago area. What kind of coverage are you looking for?

B. Of those 60 children 47 of them were 16 years or older, 13 more were between 12 and 15. One child was 7 and the other 6. Most of the above killed were as you due to gang violence.

I'm not sure what point your trying to make to be perfectly honest. Do I think its horrible that young kids are killing each other, I certainly do. I thinks its worse when a really young kid is shot in a drive by. However Chicago supposedly has the strictness gun laws and yet these kids get their hands on them no problem.

[Jackdog]

Chicago has been crazy this year. Murder rate is currently quadruple that of New York. Culture of gangs and shoot first philosophy is out of control. 60 innocent children killed this year,260 over the last 3. I had no idea it was this bad. Where in the hell has the media been on this?

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi ... tears-them

A. It's on the news every night in the Chicago area. What kind of coverage are you looking for?

B. Of those 60 children 47 of them were 16 years or older, 13 more were between 12 and 15. One child was 7 and the other 6. Most of the above killed were as you due to gang violence.

I'm not sure what point your trying to make to be perfectly honest. Do I think its horrible that young kids are killing each other, I certainly do. I thinks its worse when a really young kid is shot in a drive by. However Chicago supposedly has the strictness gun laws and yet these kids get their hands on them no problem.

Your right,they do. That's my point. It's obvious gun laws mean nothing. That genie has been out of the bottle for decades.Innocent black and Hispanic kids have been getting killed in every city around the country. Do they not deserve the same level of outrage by Washington politicians and the national media as the CT shootings? What's the difference between a child being killed in a classroom or on their front porch? I see no difference. I do see selective outrage and hypocrisy by both. That's why I posted this. Those numbers surprised me.

To be clear. I'm not dissing Chicago, my hometown of Detroit has been dealing with this issue as long as I can remember. I just came across David Muhammad's article and it stuck a nerve. IMO he is on point.

[Danimal]

Your right,they do. That's my point. It's obvious gun laws mean nothing. That genie has been out of the bottle for decades.Innocent black and Hispanic kids have been getting killed in every city around the country. Do they not deserve the same level of outrage by Washington politicians and the national media as the CT shootings? What's the difference between a child being killed in a classroom or on their front porch? I see no difference. I do see selective outrage and hypocrisy by both. That's why I posted this. Those numbers surprised me.

Most of those kids were in gangs and that is a whole other argument. Most of them were killed because they made the decision to get wrapped up in the violence. I don't have the time to check but of those 60+ kids I would bet the percentage is low the number of them who were just standing around minding their own business If I am wrong on that than I apologize but a quick look yesterday showed a different picture than the article you posted presented.

I see a big difference between kids involved in gangs killed over the course of a year and 26 KIDS sitting in school wanting to learn getting gunned down. To suggest that wouldn't (or shouldn't) garner more media coverage (which btw I think is part of the issue) and more outrage is just naive at best.

Sorry brother you know I love you but we disagree on this situation and not that it matters, but I am not a liberal. I'm fine with disagreeing on a subject but this thread has descended into something else.

I tried to stay out of it but it sickens me having grown up in Connecticut, having friends with connections to this to come in here and read this thread. Then I open my email and see my college has started a fund for one of the teacher killed. Ms. Soto went to my college, saved her kids lives and some of them saw her shot in front of them. That's what I am thinking about, those kids having that image in their minds.

My only thought right now is how can we stop this and NOTHING should be off the table in that discussion. Its clear from this thread that many people don't feel that way and that kind of sucks if you ask me.

Like I said I should just stay out of this thread.

[Teal]

Gun control is not now, nor has it ever been, a viable or workable option. Idiot control is what we need, and we control idiots with guns by arming ourselves, not disarming ourselves. Just the truth.