Madden NFL 13

[Danimal]

Got a response from a GC over at OS on my auto subs post.

You said you're playing offline, but are you playing within CCM? If so, that makes sense b/c the auto-sub sliders are not working.

If you're playing in play now, the auto sub sliders should be working and most of experienes w/ M13 suggest they are.

It's CCM where you run into auto-sub problems. You can increase fatigue to compensate, but the caveat is that you'll see players subbing who wouldn't in real life (OL, LB & S to a lesser degree). So the question (until/if it's fixed) is where is the balance? At what point can fatigue be set to guarantee your back-up RBs get carries yet your OL doesn't sub out?

[vader29]

So it works in play now, worked in last years online franchise but they question "if" it can be fixed in online career mode this year? Nice. Seems that game testing is an area that EA needs to fix.

[FifaInspected]

Gosh.. I still have this thing in the wrapper.. After all of this talk about things not working i'm tempted to bring it back.

[Rodster]

Gosh.. I still have this thing in the wrapper.. After all of this talk about things not working i'm tempted to bring it back.

I got my copy from Amazon yesterday. I opened it and i'm having fun. If you are waiting for the near perfect Madden, you'll be waiting a long time. What's not a problem in this years game maybe broken in next years game. It's like a giant roulette table.

[TCrouch]

Exactly. I'm having an absolute BLAST with it, but there are things that I can easily look past because I'm having fun with it. For some people stuff like this will absolutely kill it. From snap to whistle I have fun. Other stuff I'm just left scratching my head over because it's not like it's a little bug you'd never see...we found it in 2 minutes flat.

[Zeppo]

So it works in play now, worked in last years online franchise but they question "if" it can be fixed in online career mode this year? Nice. Seems that game testing is an area that EA needs to fix.

Not how I read that. I read that as they are aware auto sub is borked right now in online CCM games, and he was trying to consider ways to work around the problem, knowing that sub-in / sub-out results can occur if you adjust the fatigue lever. Nothing in there says to me they aren't working on or wouldn't be able to produce a fix for the problem in online CCM games.

And FIFA, you seem to be feeling the OS effect even here. The game works fine in "play now" games or one-off online games. I haven't tried it but it seems everyone is saying it works fine in offline CCM mode as well. It's online CCM that seems to have some weird accelerated clock and auto sub problems, which is a real shame for single player career only insofar as playing a single player career by doing it online would allow you to get the advantage of tuning to adjust gameplay rather than having to await full patches which have to be OKed through MS before being released.

The few games I've been able to play have been really, really fun. I've played some "play now" games v the CPU, which have been fun, although the AI isn't showing a big leap in competitiveness, but like last year it doesn't really feel cheap when it does well. I've played some ultimate team v the CPU which is fine but super easy so far because the early challenges seem to be in rookie mode, but everything seems to work. And I've played a one-off head to head game online against Vader which was super awesome fun. Really fantastic, and auto subs worked and the accelerated clock worked and everything seemed fine.

The passing game really is miles different from past versions, and I notice it more and more the more I get used to what is going on. And the new collision engine is fantastic in creating a real, "never the same thing twice" kind of feeling, with lots of stumbles and regaining balance and falling forward or getting spun sideways or who knows what, and that includes the blocking as well as the ball carrier.

Danimal's huge frustration is that they have finally, finally given us a fully functional online franchise mode with free agents and contracts and CPU team GM AI, and yet the golden ring has been snatched away at the last instant because there are all these weird bugs in the gameplay in that mode. I am confident, perhaps foolishly, that they will patch those problems and we will be off and running soon enough. But if you think you might enjoy the game outside of a multiplayer online franchise mode, then there's a lot to like.

[Danimal]

On the field it is an absolute blast to play. If you were looking forward to a CCM then you have issues and a lot of issues.

To emphasize this even more. I said the other day this is the best football game I have every played and that is still true. It is also possible the buggiest, most unpolished release EA has ever done when it comes to CCM and little UI things. None of it makes it unplayable just extremely frustrating.

[Brando70]

On the field it is an absolute blast to play. If you were looking forward to a CCM then you have issues and a lot of issues.

To emphasize this even more. I said the other day this is the best football game I have every played and that is still true. It is also possible the buggiest, most unpolished release EA has ever done when it comes to CCM and little UI things. None of it makes it unplayable just extremely frustrating.

Ditto. On the field it really is a lot of fun.

FYI, I saw a post on OS from a user who said he noticed some of the old CPU roster problems when you sim ahead a few years in CCM -- teams having one QB, that sort of thing.

There is one other thing irritating me slightly -- the old Madden ESP seems to be alive and well. Call a running play out of the shotgun and it seems like a lot of times the AI is in a run defense. Call a PA pass and they often are in a pass defense. Those things are probably necessary to keep the game competitive, but they chip away at the immersion.

[FifaInspected]

Thanks for the clarification... Off to peel back that wrapper

[sportdan30]

I agree there is a little ESP going on with CPU defense, however I generally audible quite quickly if I recognize they are playing either the run or pass of which I've called. What I find very refreshing after how many versions of Madden I've played is that play action actually works! No longer I am afraid I'm going to be abruptly sacked. Those plays are no longer broken.

[10spro]

All I've been playing so far is my own created QB, Legend QB and coach mode in offline CCM and having a good time in All Pro defaults with 10 minutes quarters on slow. Tried the "Madden Moments" mode too and it was quite a challenge. I think until NHL releases in a couple of weeks, a patch will fix some online CCM issues, but for now I am content playing this year's version in offline CCM.

[pk500]

Gosh.. I still have this thing in the wrapper.. After all of this talk about things not working i'm tempted to bring it back.

That would be a mistake unless you only can have fun with CCM. At its core, Madden 13 plays the best basic game of football on a console I've experienced.

[TCrouch]

Indeed. I can't babble about the passing game enough, and how a millisecond of pressure on a button alters the pass. There's so much to learn in how to throw the type of ball you want based on how much time you have, the kind of window you want to throw into, the defender's position and where he's looking, etc. The difference between lasering a corner route that can be intercepted and floating a nice catchable ball right over the LB is so small, yet the outcome is drastically different. Knowing the defense and the strengths of the team is huge, too.

There's a very specific reason that I struggled against Houston with a created QB for the Dolphins last night, and then lit up the Raiders for over 500 yards passing. I knew the defenders, their weaknesses, and who could be beaten where and when. There's no way I could torch the superspeed Raider secondary in past seasons, but this year I know who will bite on pump fakes and double moves (DeMarcus Van Dyke), who to stay away from (Huff), which LB's can't turn and run (Curry), etc.

Barely any of that crap matters in most games. It does in M13, which is why I see all of the annoying bugs and go "meh" and get back to having a blast from gun to gun. Granted, in the Raider game they jumped out to a 21-0 lead so quickly that the Gameflow had me passing every snap, but still.

[pk500]

Agree wholeheartedly, Terry.

One of the reasons I dig Gameflow is that is accentuates the good AI in this game and creates an even more realistic game of football. I love the NFL and have a fundamental grasp of X's, O's and play calling. But I never played the game past Pop Warner, and I'm not one of those zealots who is going to subscribe to GameRewind coaches' film this season at NFL.com.

So Gameflow helps me call a smarter game. It helps level the playing field for me and is a safety net against my stupidity. There's no question some of the niggles I perceived as "flaws" in previous Madden games actually were exploits by the AI due to stupid play-calling by me. Gameflow nearly turns off the spigot on my stupidity and lets me play a really competitive game of football where I'm rewarded and penalized for poor execution, which is more realistic at the NFL level.

Gameflow isn't perfect. Bad play calling still sometimes happens. And it's clearly not a form of "catch-up logic" like in arcade racing games, especially if a knowledgeable football dude like Terry uses it.

It just makes Madden an even better game.

[Rodster]

Yeah for me this is definitely one of the more fun Madden's i've played in awhile. The IE is pretty cool, i've seen TE's break free from a tackle, RB shed tackles, RB's get driven back only to shake free and get positive yds. Like Dan said it's not up there with Backbreaker but it gives a different feeling to Madden.

Maybe I haven't been looking for it but I haven't seen any weird animations during or after plays. The only weird thing i've seen is a player catch a pass in the endzone and he ran thru the wall and into the tunnel. But since it was a Dolphins player I can understand why it happened.

[Danimal]

For anyone who says the teams don't play to their strengths.

The Pack beat me 45-17. Rodgers line 15-20, 310 yards 5 TD's and I got beat repeatedly. Play Action, crossing patterns. He recognized single safety 1 on 1 coverage and hit driver on a go pattern I swear he audibled too.

That was an epic beat down. Mostly due in part that I can't get any pressure what so ever from my line. It's horrific.

[MizzouRah]

For anyone who says the teams don't play to their strengths.

The Pack beat me 45-17. Rodgers line 15-20, 310 yards 5 TD's and I got beat repeatedly. Play Action, crossing patterns. He recognized single safety 1 on 1 coverage and hit driver on a go pattern I swear he audibled too.

That was an epic beat down. Mostly due in part that I can't get any pressure what so ever from my line. It's horrific.

Damn you Danimal..

[Inuyasha]

I tried the CCM thing with Legends and I think it's just great. This just adds to the longevity factor for me with 13. I usually just stop after my first franchise season and do Play Now. I'll continue with my season but now after year 1, I can play with all these legendary players or current stars.

I used Steve Young to just get a feel of the CCM Legends and I cannot believe how happy I am to see how perfect they got him. They even got down his shoulder pump fake exactly. I had a videogame orgasm when I saw that , lol. I enjoy that in this mode the games move pretty quick since you're only one position.


I've been playing a lot of exhibition games and I am seeing a lot of variety among the teams. The Saints passed a lot on me and did a lot of no huddle. The Seahawks just ran the ball down the throat. KC had a good mix of run and pass. They run alot and then PA at the right time to beat me deep. Just sweet! I was the Colts and got my ass whipped 28-0 by KC. I've never had the CPU beat me like this in any madden game.

Just a very fun game I will be enjoying for a very long time.

[MizzouRah]

Just a very fun game.

When it all comes down to it, this is all that matters. I'm grabbing it today.

[ScoopBrady]

I am really enjoying both the 360 and Vita versions of the game. Both have some non gameplay-related bugs but both play a fun game of football. The Vita version is what I have always wanted in a portable game of football.

[Brando70]

Went to play my online CCM last night and it told me the servers were down. Magical.

[vader29]

Went to play my online CCM last night and it told me the servers were down. Magical.

Makes their recommendation to play single player as an online career for the tuner updates pretty much worthless. They went down on me in Ultimate Team and I booted up Tiger Woods for a round of golf and it connected to the ea servers on it pretty fast.

[Danimal]

So I would like to discuss on the field play and get others opinions. Here is a bullet list of things I have noticed and want to hear your thoughts since I have been playing strictly with the Bears on All pro in a CCM.

- I can't generate a pass rush at all. My line men get knocked to the ground or play patty cake. I've even bumped up the Pass Rush sliders (60), bumped down the cpu pass blocking slider (40) and also improved my Block shed slider (65) and honestly this seems to make it worse. I'm starting to get convince that raise shed blocks is making it worse. My D-Line can't get away from anyone. Terry and others can tell you I have been pretty handy controlling DT and DE in past games but here nothing.

- I feel like the defense is too aware on pass plays. I look at NCAA and that games passing game and more specifically coverage feels better. In M13 i still see guys cut on the routes before the WR. I'm getting better by not forcing things and making reads but it just feels a stitch off to me. Where NCAA is a bit too lose, Madden is a bit too tight and messing with the Reaction slider doesn't seem to help.

- I love that challenges and more specifically the commentary match now. I don't like that it still says call reversed but the game doesn't reverse it.

- I love the LB play, they can really hit gaps and cut off runs.

- I love how the players feel so different and true to their real life persona. I don't know what half the new ratings mean but it's nice to see a noticeable difference in players.

- For the life of me I want someone else to confirm the D-Line Crash middle and Edge Rush aren't working for them. Unless EA's idea of a crash middle is to send the RE out as wide as possible.

- I'm seeing a lot of fumbles even when covering up the ball. Anyone else?

- I love how when the ball gets on the ground it reacts realistically and so do the players.

- IE is awesome for year one. Really Harris said it was BS? guy is nuts.

- The ball hawking feature has made interceptions too easy now. Last year was hard, this year easy.

- Having said that it's nice to see actual interaction with WR / DB and man it is good to see a DB knock a ball away.

[Wilk5280]

I am really enjoying both the 360 and Vita versions of the game. Both have some non gameplay-related bugs but both play a fun game of football. The Vita version is what I have always wanted in a portable game of football.

You're making the vita a very tempting purchase. I've traded a portion of my game collection at best buy and have a small mint in BB credit.

Combine the Madden vita bundle with a 50 gift card it's calling my name.

[TCrouch]

So I would like to discuss on the field play and get others opinions. Here is a bullet list of things I have noticed and want to hear your thoughts since I have been playing strictly with the Bears on All pro in a CCM.

Holy incoming novel! Apologies in advance.

Pass Rush - I haven't been playing defense enough to know, but when I play Vader online, the pass rush isn't an issue. When I send heat, it generally gets there, and sometimes guys come unblocked. I know your bread and butter has always been to play the DT, but I can't comment on its effectiveness this year, because I've always sucked at it. I always play S or LB, and the feel of both of those is worlds better to me.

Pass D Awareness - I think it's just right. College football SHOULD be more wide open with guys screwing up than pro. It makes it feel like a step up to me. The pro game is all about the timing routes and anticipation and throwing into tight windows. I think this nails it perfectly. In my last game of the night this past evening with a created Vikings QB, I went up against the Niners defense immediately after struggling against the Colts (!?!?). I was very focused in having an interception-free game and not forcing anything. My final stat line was something like 28 of 32 for 300+ and 4 TD's, no INTs, and a 151.8 rating. I had such a huge sense of accomplishment after that, because almost all of the plays were anticipating the D and checking down when it wasn't there. I think AD and Gerhart had about 10 receptions combined as I refused to force the ball into bad situations. When you really look at the D presnap and focus on not forcing it, it doesn't feel nearly as overwhelming. I still make the boneheaded passes now and then, but in this year I'm finding I have to really focus to produce solid offense without turnovers or bad throws.

Challenges and Commentary - Yes, I love the challenges...especially booth reviews on turnovers. There were 2 or three fumbles in the various games Vader and I played last night, and some were automatically overturned in the booth review. I'm getting sick of hearing Phil Simms tell me what a horrible throw I just made when I hit a WR IN THE HANDS and he drops it, though!

LB Play - Absolutely. Amazing to properly attack gaps or defend your zone and not feel a disconnect between what input I'm giving and what the player does. If I miss an assignment/tackle/coverage, it's because I did it, not because I was stuck in a silly animation or suction blocked.

Different players - Big time. In MUT as a Gamestop Rewards member, I got Calvin Johnson on my team. In a game against Vader (always with mentions of Vader, sorry!!!), I managed to throw a TD on a goalline fade. I don't think I've ever had that play work. In this game the gameflow called it, I figured WTH and threw it up for grabs. I didn't control Calvin, and he outleaped the defender and hauled in the TD. I tried it again in a random teams game (Cowboys vs. Lions) and the Cowboy receivers had no chance. Vader's Dave Casper was practically uncoverable by my linebackers in MUT games. Every player can attack and hurt a team if you're not prepared for the different styles.

D Line Crash - No clue. Sorry, bro. I sometimes do the crash and left/right but I'm always attempting to fill gaps with LB's or Safeties, so I don't know.

Fumbles - When I cover the ball and take an absolute hammering while squared up, yes. I've discovered a lot of little nuances to the game through my 60+ games so far. This year with the physics engine, if you're squared up against a guy who has a bead on you, you're dead. You MUST use the R stick to lean forward and twist away from the contact, and switch the ball hand if possible with the A button. If you have a guy drawing up on you from the left, I press A to switch the ball to my right hand and lean forward and twist right, which shields the ball from the defender's helmet. I think I forced 3 or 4 fumbles in MUT games last night with guess who, and most of them were dead-on squared up pops by LaRon Landry. When you learn how to not only hold RB, but make sure the ball is away from the defender and twist to protect your ball carrier, those all but disappear.

Ball physics - It gets a bit wonky watching guys just stand there when a fumble happens, but yes. Still enjoyable.

IE - love the engine. Nuff said.

Ball Hawking - Agreed. I feel for the rest of our online franchise. In the last game online I played last night, I had 8 picks. It was bad enough before, but now I have to try to force myself NOT to pick the ball off, and after 20 years of a habit being formed, that's not going to be an easy one to break.

WR/DB - Yep. And head tracking and attacking defenders who aren't looking. Leaps and bounds of growth this year.