Madden NFL 13

[TCrouch]

I was pumped to play some NFL football after playing so much NCAA. Football is football to me, but I'm a much bigger pro fan than college, so I know the players and teams much better here. That being said, I fired it up and got ready to really dig into it...and was pretty "meh" about it.

The good is the passing game feels almost identical to NCAA, except the defenders are tighter in coverage most of the times I saw. I don't have guys running a drag route completely wide open, or throwing an out route against a safety who doesn't seem to know it's his coverage. Speed matters, as one of the gameflow play calls had my LB matched up on the slot receiver in man coverage. Needless to say, it was an easy completion because the wideout just ran away from my defender. Running has a lot of unscripted stuff to it. Guys get hit, or barely contacted, and momentum seems to carry the ball carrier forward if he had a head of steam. I ran over plenty of DB's with Marshawn Lynch, but also got stuffed going backwards when I tried to dance too much and pick a lane and the corner chopped me down.

Overall it seems to play a pretty good game of football, but that engine...eek. I have no idea how I feel about it yet, and I probably won't until I play a lot more 10 min+ quarter games. I see some REALLY strange tackles every 3rd or 4th one, it seems. Where a guy starts going through a spinning animation because he was hit, then he gets hit again and the body contorts really strangely with an arm heading the wrong direction. I had Mike Williams (the ex Seahawk who's still a Seahawk in the demo) catch a ball and continue to cradle it in the palm of his hand through a tackle. But the tackle had him somehow end up with a chickenwing pose where the arm with the ball in his hand actually did a full rotation in the socket, like in the Exorcist with a different joint or something. It was very jarring.

I like how they no longer clip through each other, but I had a replay after a TD pass of Matt Flynn and a linebacker actually joined at the groin somehow. It was like they were doing a Lambada. Flynn was walking forward and the LB was staying right up on his johnson as they did this little shimmy walk, and what made it worse was the fact that the replay kept showing it, like Flynn was supposed to be in some "TD pass celebration" animation, but instead was bumping uglies with a defender as they walked about 5 yards up the field.

Stuff like that really pulls me out of the game. But for every one of those, I have 2 or 3 great plays that look smooth and believable. Some of the touch passing you can do now is really impressive, and it seems much less forgiving than in NCAA. I got so used to being able to crank the stick over with NCAA to zip pinpoint passes around, and when I did that with Flynn I missed a crossing route by a good 4 yards in front. It seems to require a bit more finesse in Madden, and that's a good thing.

Tough to say for me so far. I'm not as blown away as I thought I would be, but it's certainly better than last year's, and I'll obviously get it on Day 1 because I have every year since 1990.

[Danimal]

I like Bill Harris and actually consider him a friend but I find that write up questionable. He played 40 plays and said the Infinity engine is BS? I haven't played the demo but I'm not seen many other people say that they can't notice the engine. Terry's post above tells of some of the artifacts that come with the engine in terms of limbs out of whack.

Like I said I haven't played it. Terry and I are usually online with our impression on Ea games so if he is not liking it I am not so eager to get home from sunny San Diego and try it but Harris is a better writer then that but he is entitled to his opinions

[Zeppo]

Here's a good write up on the demo from Bill Harris :

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2012 ... -demo.html

During a moment of entire dissolution of all common sense, I downloaded the Madden demo today.

Surprisingly, though, there have been improvements.

The environment seems much more dynamic (better audio). Menus are easier to navigate and more logically laid out. Onscreen displays and overlays are very sharp and minimally intrusive. The pre-game is entertaining. The Gameflow feature actually seems usable (and useful) this time. Even the in-game announcing has been upgraded from awful to average.

That's quite a lot of improvement, actually.

There was only one problem: I still had to play the game. And the game looks like ass, like it was made five years ago. At least.

Here's what happens. You go through this spiffy pre-game that looks very, very sharp graphically, and finally, the game begins. At that moment, the graphics go from "ultra-sharp" to "ultra-dingy", the camera is far, far, behind the action, and I swear I felt like I was suddenly looking at a PS2 game. That's an exaggeration, obviously, but Madden is light years behind NHL, NBA2K, and MLB: The Show in terms of graphics and animation.

It's so far behind that it's painful.

I think some of this has to do with the lighting effects, which are an abomination. Lighting effects should enhance sharpness, but Madden's lighting effects (for years) have done the opposite: they've made things duller. The NCAA series has had the same problem.

Okay, so the graphics are a disappointment--again. How do the players move, though? Um, like they've moved for the last five years, pretty much. What about that new Infinity Engine to generate unique tackle animations? That's 99% horseshit. Seriously, I didn't see one tackle animation that looked unique or impossible with the old engine, and I played a game that consisted of probably 40 plays. Even worse, I saw one incredibly blatant suction tackle, where the running back was pulled to the defensive player. Yes, that's how real physics work, kids!

In sum: it's bog-standard, way-behind-the-times Madden in terms of how it looks and moves.

Oh, and in a game with five-minute quarters, I saw six ads. Six. Well, five plus one egregiously obvious product placement. And here's a prediction: Madden is going to add a 30-second advertisement between quarters. It hasn't happened yet, but the commentary is set up perfectly to do it (Jim Nance talks about "a word from our sponsors" at the end of the quarter), and it's coming at some point. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of your life.

So to speak.

This is the only game in town, unfortunately, for a graphically-based football game with the NFL/NFLPA license. And EA will have this license locked up long after they've given up the others. So we can eat it and like it, or just go hungry.

Or play Backbreaker, with mods.

posted by Bill Harris @ 2:56 PM

This is chock full of confirmation bias and flat out inaccurate statements.

Gameflow is somehow better this year than last year? Um, as far as I can tell it's exactly the same as it has been since it was implemented. It's usefulness to an individual gamer, a least on offense (I can't use it on defense because I need to ensure I have the right personnel package based on what the offense has in the huddle, and gameflow doesn't handle that at all) is directly proportional to the amount of effort he puts into tweaking the gameflow play book; no more, no less. So a demo ins't really the best way to judge the system. But mechanically it's exactly the same as last year.

The menus are somehow a big improvement over last year? Again, they seem exactly the same to me. Maybe the font is different or something, but they still function the same way in the game as they have for years now.

The visuals in game are not nearly as poor as he would want us to believe. Surely it's very subjective on a lot of counts, but still, it's simply inaccurate and unfair to compare it to a PS2 game or to state that it's measurably worse than, say, NHL, which of course has 12 human fugues moving on the field, not 22 players plus officials. But anyway.

And if he really doesn't see any difference in the animation engine or the collision detection or reactions, or can only see the instances of suction tackles instead, than he is absolutely engaging in cherry picking. There is no way anyone who is reasonably objective can see even a few plays and not notice a major difference in how players react to collisions compared to last year's game. At least there's no way one could do it and still have his opinion taken seriously by me.

On another note, listen guys, the poor lighting in the Redskins - Seahawks game isn't any kind of glitch. When the camera is pointed in one direction, it's looking towards the light source and thus seeing the shadow side of the characters, and the exposure is too dark to discern much if any difference among the colors. When the camera flips sides due to change of possession, the light source is now behind the camera and every thing looks bright and colorful. Not glitchy, just poor camera/exposure simulation. They should adjust the exposure when the camera moves from one side to the other, as you would in real life, or they could use in-engine cheats to lessen the contrast or add some fill or artifically darken the grass or something. Yes it's not good (and frankly the sun isn't in the right place, but I say that as someone who actually goes to FedEx to see games a lot), but it's not any kind of glitch or bug. I do hope in the final version it is fixed, because it is pretty poor.

[10spro]

Running has a lot of unscripted stuff to it. Guys get hit, or barely contacted, and momentum seems to carry the ball carrier forward if he had a head of steam. I ran over plenty of DB's with Marshawn Lynch, but also got stuffed going backwards when I tried to dance too much and pick a lane and the corner chopped me down.

Overall it seems to play a pretty good game of football, but that engine...eek. I have no idea how I feel about it yet, and I probably won't until I play a lot more 10 min+ quarter games.

For me is the blocking where it doesn't feel as advanced with the new engine which obviously needs more refining. Qucker RB's seem to have better succes at breaking tackles than power RB's as they would seem to fall forward towards the line of scrimmage with their momentum. There will be issues that need to be addressed with the infinity engine of course, much like Fifa in it's first year with their new physics.

One thing I noticed in the demo, is that QB's seem to have more time in the pocket to make their readings.

[Inuyasha]

I've been bitching about the lighting alot but I saw one thing cool in one of my games last night which I think is what they were attending to do with the lighting.

I was playing as the Niners and on D and Manning threw a pass to Cruz around the Niners 20 yard line. It was the right corner of the field where the lighting goes from the sun to the shadow. Right as the ball went from sun to shadow, I lost track of the ball and Cruz snagged it and ran it in for a TD.

I was thinking to myself that is pretty realistic if I was a DB in real life I probably would have some problems when looking back and picking up the ball from sun to shadow.

More I play the more the gameplay improvements come out. I got to keep reminding myself this is a demo. I am really hoping in the final version that the lighting is fixed and that they give us more camera angle choices. I liked last years cam where it started out high but then zoomed back in when you snapped the ball.

[TCrouch]

Terry and I are usually online with our impression on Ea games so if he is not liking it I am not so eager to get home from sunny San Diego and try it

It's not that I don't like it. I think it feels very similar to NCAA, which is a good thing. I think I just expected more after so much of the infinity engine pimping they've been doing. The only tangible results I see from the new engine is stranger tackles. I haven't played more than 3 or 4 games, though, and I haven't been going into replays to look at the line interaction, etc. It feels similar to NCAA, in that I was able to pick up and play and throw the same types of routes that I haven't been able to throw in Madden before. So that is a good thing.

It's just those weird tackles that pull me out of the action from time to time. I definitely don't DISLIKE it, though. I'm just sort of indifferent at the moment. I'll get all hyped up to play again next Friday or Saturday when early release starts, thought, just the same

[Teal]

I like it. I think it *feels* different enough from NCAA to warrant a dual ownership. The Infinity stuff is actually pretty cool; I had a RB who was able to realistically break 4 tackles in rapid succession, stumbling and spinning around in a fashion that looked remarkable. Yeah, I saw a couple of weird contortions, too, but not a big deal. I liked Nantz and Phil's banter; Simms is inarguably better and more natural, but it was a marked improvement over the last several years' commentary.

All in all, I thought it was a fun game of football. Probably won't worry about buying it for a bit, because I lean more toward college football fandom, but I've got more interest in Madden this year than at any time in this console cycle.

[Brando70]

And if he really doesn't see any difference in the animation engine or the collision detection or reactions, or can only see the instances of suction tackles instead, than he is absolutely engaging in cherry picking. There is no way anyone who is reasonably objective can see even a few plays and not notice a major difference in how players react to collisions compared to last year's game. At least there's no way one could do it and still have his opinion taken seriously by me.

I agree, I think Bill came out of the gates ready to hate it. Having played a lot of Madden 12 and Madden 10, I noticed the differences right away. It's not like everything is different, but running and pass coverage are quite a bit different than before.

I don't think it's different enough to change anyone from a Madden hater to a lover, but I think most Madden fans will appreciate the improvements.

[MizzouRah]

I like it. I think it *feels* different enough from NCAA to warrant a dual ownership. The Infinity stuff is actually pretty cool; I had a RB who was able to realistically break 4 tackles in rapid succession, stumbling and spinning around in a fashion that looked remarkable. Yeah, I saw a couple of weird contortions, too, but not a big deal. I liked Nantz and Phil's banter; Simms is inarguably better and more natural, but it was a marked improvement over the last several years' commentary.

All in all, I thought it was a fun game of football. Probably won't worry about buying it for a bit, because I lean more toward college football fandom, but I've got more interest in Madden this year than at any time in this console cycle.

It's amazing how much you and I agree on things.

It's night and day for me vs NCAA and that's a good thing. The infinity engine is going to be wonky and I get that, but it's much better than it has ever been IMHO.

Thank you Zeppo for the explanation on the lighting.. makes sense. Hopefully they figure out something to make it better. One guy over at the OS forums said he tried to throw to the ref when it was like that.

I might have to juggle NCAA, Madden and NHL this season. Although if Madden sustains my interest, I just might put NCAA on the shelf for a bit this year.

[wco81]

Just got an email from BB. $20 in reward certs if you preorder from BB.

Not sure if it's for new BB Reward Zone members or existing ones too.

[Brando70]

Tried the Seahawks against the Skins. Saw a great play that really showed off the way collisions are different. RGIII hit Chris Cooley on a deep post route. My safety tried to make the tackle but Cooley shook it off in a great animation that looked very real. I dove at him a few yards later and he pumped his legs to shake off that tackle, too. Awesome play even if it cost me.

I also ran a kickoff back with Leon Washington.

However, dumb coaching AI almost cost the Redskins the game. I was down by 7 with 42 second and only two TOs, and Washington ran plays normally, resulting in a fumble. I tied the game when they called a terrible defense that left my slot guy wide, wide open with 20 yards to go and 8 seconds left. Then I think they tried to ice the kicker by calling a TO on the extra point.

So far, though, it's pretty fun. The passing in particular is much more entertaining -- you can really go deep in the right situations, and the CPU seems more aggressive with the deep ball than in years past.

[AJColossal]

It's does feel different, I'll give EA that. Someone here likened the new art style to something akin to a comic book or cartoon and I'll agree with that. It's not bad -- there are moments, especially when the lighting is right, when the game looks great. But I can understand if the graphics aren't everyone's cup if tea.

Also, the new physics engine occasionally results in horror-show joint contortions that are good for a chuckle, lol.

[bayousooner]

I noticed they did change the kickoffs to the 35, but touchbacks are coming out to the 20. I thought the new rule changed it to the 25?

[TCrouch]

Call me stupid, but I had no idea I could turn off the accelerated clock in the demo. Seeing it grayed out in the game options when heading into the game left me thinking I was forced to play a 5 min quarter game with it on. Once the game loaded, I went into options and was able to disable it completely and played 3 quarters at lunch before I had to go as the Giants @ Niners.

I still think there's some wonky stuff going on with collisions, but it sure felt like a football game. Patrick Willis was everywhere when I tried to run or throw short, and Boley and Blackburn were very disruptive for my defense. It seemed the Niners and I went back and forth in the middle of the field. Get a first down or two, then punt to each other. Alex Smith started out on fire, completing something like 80% of his passes to perfect locations on the field in building a 10-0 halftime lead (gorgeous 74-yard bomb to Crabtree when the defense I called had a cover 1 and the safety bit on the play fake).

In the second half he imploded, throwing picks on back to back passes that I was able to convert into 14 points for a 14-10 lead at the end of the third quarter. But some stuff started to jump out at me in this game. Playing Linebacker, not ONCE was I "chip block animationed" which was so common for me in previous Maddens. I could attack a gap and actually plug the lane or make the stop. I didn't get pulled into a block from a fullback that was a good 2 feet to my left or right. Being able to effectively blitz and/or read my keys and get in the proper gap was incredible. Contrary to Harris' post above, I didn't see a single suction block, and my linebackers were far and away my biggest playmakers. I think Blackburn had 5 or 6 tackles and an INT and Boley had another 5 or 6 tackles with a user sack in 3 quarters.

With a longer game and drives where defenders seemed to be getting tired as the game wore on, I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more. And the physics engine, while giving me strange things from time to time, made playing defense and running the ball a lot better. Tough to say, but I'll probably play a lot more games of the demo in the next few days now that I know I don't have to play at warp speed in a game that feels like it's on 2 min quarters.

***EDIT*** And I'm sure I'll get sick of it when I hear the same lines for the ten-thousandth time, but Phil Simms is glorious in this with the color commentary. Nantz is robotic and has the tell-tale inflection changes and strangely stressed phrases reminding me that the commentary is pieced together, but Simms comes in with spot-on commentary left and right. I'm curious to see if it's just a demo thing that they don't have any player names mentioned, though. I'm sure with size constraints, they stripped out anything related to specific players, instead just saying "the offensive player"....or they just decided to leave some color commentary very generic, with more lines. No idea until the full version comes out, but it is worlds better than the previous efforts.

[ScoopBrady]

I'm not surprised Simms is good as he loves to hear himself talk and this is a good venue for that.

[pk500]

Playing Linebacker, not ONCE was I "chip block animationed" which was so common for me in previous Maddens. I could attack a gap and actually plug the lane or make the stop. I didn't get pulled into a block from a fullback that was a good 2 feet to my left or right. Being able to effectively blitz and/or read my keys and get in the proper gap was incredible. Contrary to Harris' post above, I didn't see a single suction block, and my linebackers were far and away my biggest playmakers. I think Blackburn had 5 or 6 tackles and an INT and Boley had another 5 or 6 tackles with a user sack in 3 quarters.

Thanks for this vital feedback. This is HUGE. I'm so sick of seeing safeties and cornerbacks as the leading tacklers on a regular basis for both human and AI teams in football video games.

[Rodster]

I think i'm going to just roll with the demo this year on the big console. 5 minute qtrs is all I every play cause the game just bores me sh*tless at times. I should have done that last year. But the Vita version looks incredible on the smaller screen.

[Teal]

Played a GREAT game of football in NCAA today, and as soon as it ended, I fired up the Madden demo. Honestly, I'm not swayed one way or the other by the 'infinity' engine. If anything, it kind of takes away from specific TYPES of tackles. Yes, it's more 'real' in a sense. Scrums at the line, for instance, seem to be more realistic, and breaking tackles do, as well. I do like both games just about equally, other than my penchant for college football.

Other than the infinity stuff, the games play nearly identically. I like the pulled back camera for FG's and PAT's, just for aesthetic reasons, as well as the kickoff camera, for the same reason. The commentary is WORLDS better than the last several iterations, and it's just a better game of football.

I'll freely admit that I'm not too well versed in the intricacies of football; I don't know about the x's and o's, and some of the comments about the minutae of the game on here make my head spin...lol. But all that to say that I'm quite happy with my NCAA purchase, after seeing what the infinity engine actually entails. My initial reservations were based upon the 'real physics' stuff. But they're not that big of a game changer...although the game is quite good anyway.

[Inuyasha]

Played a GREAT game of football in NCAA today, and as soon as it ended, I fired up the Madden demo. Honestly, I'm not swayed one way or the other by the 'infinity' engine. If anything, it kind of takes away from specific TYPES of tackles.

I agree with this. I put in Madden 12 after playing an hour of Madden 13 Demo. The hits in 12 feel like real hits. Maybe because the players are bigger, but the hits in 13 demo feel a bit more flimsy. Its like in 13 Demo the players are made out of air while in 12 you can feel the players weight.

One thing I am liking in 13 is the challenge of the deep pass. If you go long and you got double coverage on your guy, it's almost everytime an INT. It should be that way unless you have a great QB or athletic WR. The players and gameplay is more explosive in 13 demo too. Its more faster than 12.

I'll still wait and see how the final build of 13 is.

[Brando70]

The offensive AI in 13 seems considerably better to me. The computer runs more while also taking more shots down the field. Most big plays for the CPU in Madden 12 seemed to come from turnovers, blown tackles, or blown coverage. Now it seems like the CPU will rip off 15-20 yard runs or hit 30-40 yard passes from better execution rather than something I do wrong.

[MizzouRah]

The offensive AI in 13 seems considerably better to me. The computer runs more while also taking more shots down the field. Most big plays for the CPU in Madden 12 seemed to come from turnovers, blown tackles, or blown coverage. Now it seems like the CPU will rip off 15-20 yard runs or hit 30-40 yard passes from better execution rather than something I do wrong.

I would agree with this. San Francisco ran quite a bit for about a 3.7 average - I hope that holds up since NCAA on defaults the CPU is horrible at running.

I think this is going to be a fun game.. I am really willing to forgive the new infinity engine because I can see what it should end up after a couple of years of tweaking. Maybe I'm weird, but I really like it - even with all the odd limbs flying around at times. Seeing a players head go back on impact makes me wince.

[TCrouch]

I don't think they'll be much better running the rock than they have been in the past. With the ability to attack the gaps so effectively, in my full game last night Frank Gore had 12 carries for 10 yards, while Kendall Hunter ripped off a 12 yarder late in the game--and finished with 9 yards overall.

So I wouldn't get your hopes up on the CPU running effectively on All-Pro defaults. They seem about equal to previous years, and without the little crap that sucked you in, you can routinely destroy their running game.

[MizzouRah]

I don't think they'll be much better running the rock than they have been in the past. With the ability to attack the gaps so effectively, in my full game last night Frank Gore had 12 carries for 10 yards, while Kendall Hunter ripped off a 12 yarder late in the game--and finished with 9 yards overall.

So I wouldn't get your hopes up on the CPU running effectively on All-Pro defaults. They seem about equal to previous years, and without the little crap that sucked you in, you can routinely destroy their running game.

Actually.. I think I was on Pro when they ran well on me.

[Inuyasha]

Retail Version Video Here -

[Danimal]

Finally got a chance to try the demo, only 2 games thus far.

I don't know what I think. I don't hate it and I don't love it. The new engine is easily apparent so i am not sure what Harris was smoking. Having said that when it works it's awesome and when it doesn't well it looks flat out odd. My first play the cpu ran the ball and then the play ended. I didn't see him hit the ground, he stumbled over a guy and I guess put what I thought was his hand down.

Then on some plays the runner bouncing off tackles and what not are beautiful.

I think the game plays way too fast, even on Very Slow. It's so fast I don't know what is going on at times. For whatever reason the passing doesn't feel as refined as NCAA. I've had throws where I thought I put touch on it and they end up bullets. NCAA passing is second nature too me so I have no idea why I am having issues here. The replays are abysmal.

Commentary I actually enjoyed very much. For a first year effort with a new engine and team it is better then anything they have done in the past. Player ratings seem to play a bigger role here then in NCAA which is good. I hate that I can't use the same adjustments system as NCAA this is just flat out silly.

I'll get the game, mainly for our league and because I love the NFL but I really want to see the ST version later this week. I am hoping that feels a little better but in I just think this physics engine is never going to eliminate the crazy results sometimes. In the end it is CCM that will sell me on the game though.

I played the crap out of the NCAA demo, I played 2 games of this demo and couldn't care less if I tried it again until the ST version. That's not what EA is hoping for I would bet.