OT: What do people see in George Bush.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:13 am

This is a serious post and not one where I'm going to start out flaming the President.

After all the footage of Reagan over the weekend, I can honestly see what so many saw in the man. Charismatic, charming, pretty-good hearted. I don't agree with his domestic policies and I don't beleive they helped out the middle class as much as people give him credit. But he seems like a nice enough man that stood for his convictions not overtly his donors, although I sure he did a few favors for them too.

With that said, what do supporters of bush see in the guy. In his interview with Brokaw over the weekend, he seemed like a underdeveloped thinker compared with Reagan.

Is this just partisan support where many people will overlook the flaws because they are so opposed, rightly or wrongly towards the democrat. Is it just because he gave you more money back in taxes.

Straight up, I'm just curious. Being an ardent "basher" rightly and wrongly of Bush; after Reagan's death I thought it would only be fair to see the otherside of the story. Something that we won't do because of partisianship. The belief that every thought or policy by the other side is wrong because it's by the other side.

So what is it? I just would like to know what other see in this guy that I don't. Or is it just political blinders that so many on both sides of the political spectrum have that support this guy and hate Kerry and vice versa.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:27 am

I honestly think it's because he's a normal, everyday guy. He makes mistakes, he says stupid sh*t, and he comes off as slightly (lol) vindictive, which we all are to some degree. I just think America can relate with him more than some of the other stiffs we've had in office.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:34 am

This term what I see in him is the fact that Tipper Gore is not the first lady. Next term I'm not quite sure.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:53 am

I'll probably be one of the few people who defend Bush, but I'll give you my opinion anyway.

First of all, the tax dollars didn't hurt. Bush's policy has put about $3000 in my pocket over the last year.

The main reason I like Bush is I believe he is sincere and I really believe he cares about this country and its people. Bush won my heart during his speech at the Republican convention back in 2000. He looked and spoke as if he really cared about all Americans.

He has brought much needed dignity and class back to the office of the president after Clinton made a mockery of it for 8 years. I like Bush's strong belief in God and his whole moral character. I truly believe he's a good man. I like his belief that our country should have a strong and well prepared military. Most of all, he stands with me on issues that are close to my heart. He is against abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or to save a mother's life.

I believe that life is valuable, even when it is unwanted, even when it is physically imperfect. I believe our society has a responsibility to defend the vulnerable and the weak. And I believe our nation should set a goal: that unborn children should be welcomed in life and protected in law. This is the ideal: a generous society that values every life. I know there are many steps on this road. A democracy is ruled by consensus, not by edict. Laws are changed as minds are persuaded.

Bush is strongly in favor of the death penalty, another issue that is dear to my heart. I've always found it kind of puzzling that democrats will lie down in front of a truck to save a convicted mass murderer from being put to death, but killing an unborn child is ok?

The issues of abortion and capital punishment as well as taxcuts will always keep me from voting for a democrat for president. If a democrat ever shares my opinion on these issues, then I will be the first in line to vote for him.

jbodin · Post by **jbodin** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:08 am

Badgun wrote:The main reason I like Bush is I believe he is sincere and I really believe he cares about this country and its people. Bush won my heart during his speech at the Republican convention back in 2000. He looked and spoke as if he really cared about all Americans.

He has brought much needed dignity and class back to the office of the president after Clinton made a mockery of it for 8 years. I like Bush's strong belief in God and his whole moral character. I truly believe he's a good man. I like his belief that our country should have a strong and well prepared military. Most of all, he stands with me on issues that are close to my heart. He is against abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or to save a mother's life.

I believe that life is valuable, even when it is unwanted, even when it is physically imperfect. I believe our society has a responsibility to defend the vulnerable and the weak. And I believe our nation should set a goal: that unborn children should be welcomed in life and protected in law. This is the ideal: a generous society that values every life. I know there are many steps on this road. A democracy is ruled by consensus, not by edict. Laws are changed as minds are persuaded.
Bush is strongly in favor of the death penalty, another issue that is dear to my heart. I've always found it kind of puzzling that democrats will lie down in front of a truck to save a convicted mass murderer from being put to death, but killing an unborn child is ok?

You took the words right out of my mouth -- AMEN, brother!

ProvoAnC · Post by **ProvoAnC** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:55 am

The best thing I like about bush is how he acted after 9/11. It really got to him...I could tell he was genuinely sad, hurt, and friggin pissed. There were no 'we'll be ok, thumbs up,' ala Clinton style. That really impressed me about him. Like he actually cared. The one thing I don't like is Iraq. we should f-ed up the 'Stan first and got the job done there before we started in on Iraq.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:23 am

All good points. I joked earlier about Tipper Gore not being the first lady is what I see in Bush but I pretty much feel the same from what you guys have said. It's refreshing to have a president who is caring and upstanding after Clinton. I detest the impression that Clintons sexcapades left on the children of our country. I think that will have ramifications much longer than anyone anticipates. Clinton did some good things while in office but in my book he wiped that slate clean with his sexual activities.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:24 am

I respect Bush for standing up for what he believes in. I may not agree with everything he does or says, but at least I have no doubt where he stands on an issue. The tax cuts were nice as well.

However, the main reason I supported and liked him up until the Iraq war is that I am a Republican (although I am fairly moderate and don't hesitate to vote for Democrats). I'm not a dittohead and disagree with the President on a few social issues and foreign policy, but I generally agree with his platform on the majority of issues.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:23 am

I detest Bush.

Clinton lied about a blowjob. Nobody died. Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, he lied when he called Iraq a threat to the United States and he lied when he implied that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks. He also lied when he declared the war in Iraq was over. Americans continue to die in Iraq every day and our county has poured billions of dollars over there. And for what? It may not mean anything to some of you, but it meant a lot to me that my country had never invaded another country without just cause. Never in our history did we attack another country because we were worried they might attack us some day. Vietnam and Korea may have been mistakes in our past, but we did not strike the first blow or start the conflict.

Yeah, Clinton had sex outside of marriage. Bush and Cheney meanwhile have 3 DUI arrests between them. Again, driving while intoxicated kills people while oral sex generally doesn't.

Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to go to war. If I remember correctly, most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. Yet the Saudis remain our good buddies and we invade Iraq? And what American company gets to take the lead on the cleanup? Halliburton. Coincidence?

Bush and Cheney may never pay for the things they have done to this country. But some day they will have to stand before God and defend their actions. Frankly, I don't think that either of them can honestly admit that their reasons for going to war are moral and just.

Clinton got destroyed every Memorial day for his stance against Vietnam. Bush gets away with waving his flags and being called a patriot. The way I see it, at least Clinton had a reason for not wanting to go to Vietnam. Bush on the other hand, had not problem with the war, he just didn't want to go himself. He would rather jump in line ahead of tens of thousands of other Texans and sit out the war in the National Guard. None of the people in power, from Bush to Cheney to our Secretary of Defense, served out country in the Armed Forces. And yet they have no problem sending American men and women over to Iraq.

I can't wait to see what the Bush administration has in store for us over the next 4 years. A part of me feels that whatever it is, we deserve it for our part in keeping him in office.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:24 am

He has support in this country because as hard as it is for liberals like me to comprehend, his basic ideological views are supported by a large group in this country, simple as that. When you travel abroad, it is even more difficult to understand why he is liked though. The fact is that those who favor the death penalty and are opposed to abortion or those who favor limited gun control are really not found in great numbers anymore anywhere in the world except in this country (particularly in the southern stronghold states).

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:47 am

kevinpars wrote:None of the people in power, from Bush to Cheney to our Secretary of Defense, served out country in the Armed Forces.

Did Colin Powell serve in the armed services?

ProvoAnC · Post by **ProvoAnC** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:04 am

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:06 am

Bush

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:09 am

JRod wrote:This is a serious post and not one where I'm going to start out flaming the President.

Straight up, I'm just curious. Being an ardent "basher" rightly and wrongly of Bush; after Reagan's death I thought it would only be fair to see the otherside of the story. Something that we won't do because of partisianship. The belief that every thought or policy by the other side is wrong because it's by the other side.

You really didn't expect open and honest non-partisan discussion from this group, did you? I knew it wouldn't take long to fall apart.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:45 am

Leebo33 wrote: You really didn't expect open and honest non-partisan discussion from this group, did you? I knew it wouldn't take long to fall apart.

Exactly the reason that I steer clear of these types of discussions...I better stop there....

RiverRat · Post by **RiverRat** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:52 am

I think the main reason he's popular with those that support him is that he's decisive, loyal, and has a kind of straight-shootin' cowboy image that a lot of the non-elite types can relate to. The other thing about him is that he's clearly an AMERICAN president and doesn't try to be an internationalist. That's also something a lot of people like.

I don't think the tax cuts have anything to do with it. Tax cuts come and go and life goes on anyway. When people talk about Reagan this week, they mostly talk about his personality and cold war leadership although domestically, the tax cust are likely the most significant thing he did.

I really don't like Bush. He just seems like an amateur. But he does have a few redeeming qualities. Wouldn't be the end of the world if he served a second term.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:02 am

I don't want to get into a flamewar, so I'm not really going to get into why I dislike President Bush's policies. But here's something I don't get:

I really understood why Bush won in 2000. I think people were especially tired of the constant parsing, the inability of Clinton to give a straight answer on Lewinsky and other issues. A lot of Bush's likeability came from his image as a straight shooter, a man who plainly said what he felt and leveled with his constiuents.

But this administration has engaged in Clintonesque parsing of words on just about every controversial issue that has come up. Tax cuts. The deficit. Iraq. The prison scandal. It's not always Bush doing it, but certainly his cabinet and top officials. They have never met a straight answer, never made a mistake, and they are always taking the best course of action, according to them.

Do people really think the Bush administration has been honest? That they have leveled with the American people? Because while I can understand why people support him because of his policies (anti-abortion, pro-death penalty, tax cuts, etc.), I don't see honesty as one of his big strengths.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:03 am

I don't think America saw much in him before Sept. 11, 2001. He was the lesser of two evils to most and was elected without a majority of the vote.

Bush did provide a steady, determined yet consoling hand in the days immediately after Sept. 11. I really thought those were his best moments, as he combined compassion and America's feelings for revenge really, really well.

But the man's performance, both PR-wise and as a president, has slipped quite a bit since then. I now see a man who is trapped by his sense of moral crusading. This war is more than just an instrument of his foreign policy -- it's a crusade that he seems to feel was brought to him by a higher power to execute. Just listen to the man speak.

Bush and his honchos, with their staunch reliance on fundamentalist idealism and total lack of pragmatism, scare the sh*t out of me, to be honest.

Reagan was a pragmatic conservative. Bush is a fundamentalist conservative. There's a huge difference, and only Reagan's brand of conservatism is even remotely healthy for a nation.

Take care,
PK

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:05 pm

Well Bush is getting big support among the religious. Whether they go to a church, a synogogue or even a mosque, the people who practice religion on a regular basis overwhelmingly support Bush.

As for his support, I think the country is so polarized that either standardbearer of the two major parties, but particularly the Republicans since Clinton was elected, rally around their party. Bush won the GOP nomination in 2000 because of his name recognition and the way they slimed McCain. But if McCain had won the nomination, the party would be strongly behind him, even thought they cast him aside in 2000, buying into the notion that he was a liberal.

Bush's positions are not that unusual in the Republican party, which has increasingly been reliant on the evangelical vote. I read that evangelicals may form 46% of the country and are still growing.

But beyond his religious beliefts, Bush does pander and act by polls. For instance, he came out strong against gay marriage to pander to the cultural conservatives and he came out for immigration reform and the guest worker program to pander to the Hispanic vote. And he imposed steel tariffs to pander to steel workers in key battleground states like WV and PA.

The peak of the popularity was the way he handled the aftermath of 9/11 (not right after but days later). His finest moment was down at Ground Zero, which is why it's so puzzling that he continues to stumble when he has to speak off the cuff or answer questions. But he may have overreached by taking the goodwill of the entire country and going on this adventure in Iraq, which has little by little sapped his favorability ratings.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:09 pm

>>>Well Bush is getting big support among the religious. Whether they go to a church, a synogogue or even a mosque, the people who practice religion on a regular basis overwhelmingly support Bush.<<<

Guess I'm a member of the minority. I attend Mass every Sunday and can't stand Bush.

Out,
PK

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:33 pm

I honestly dont understand how anyone see Bush as a competent leader of the free world. He is an embarassment to this country. I am one person who cares about how America looks to the rest of the world and
detest Bush for his personal vendetta against Iraq and how he is trying to brainwash the public into thinking this war on Iraq is tied in with the war on terror and what happened on 9/11. Thousands and Americans died on 9/11 and now hundreds more are dying in Iraq becasue he needed an excuse to go after Hussein. You listen to other presidents speak like Reagan, etc and you realize how "unpresident-like" Bush really is. The next election can't come soon enough. He has done so much damage to US=rest of the world relations, not to mention his total neglect to the environment.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:44 pm

pk500 wrote:>>>Well Bush is getting big support among the religious. Whether they go to a church, a synogogue or even a mosque, the people who practice religion on a regular basis overwhelmingly support Bush.<<<

Guess I'm a member of the minority. I attend Mass every Sunday and can't stand Bush.

Out,
PK

There are plenty of people that believe in a religion and will be supporting Kerry. However, atheists overwhelmingly support more liberal parties. If there was as many atheists in this country as there are in Europe, Japan, Australia etc..., the Republicans wouldn't as popular of a party.

RiverRat · Post by **RiverRat** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:07 pm

JackB1 wrote:I honestly dont understand how anyone see Bush as a competent leader of the free world.

That's exactly my point. The people of this country don't elect the leader of the free world. They elect a president of the United States. The fact that Bush has thumbed his nose at a lot of traditional European powers endears him to many people in this country. He is probably the most "in-your-face" American president since Reagan, and that wins a lot of support.

Kerry's quip about most international leaders supporting him and being against Bush was a ridiculously stupid thing for him to say ... perhaps one of the most self-defeating comments a presidential candidate has made since Dukakis flubbed the capital punishment question in the Bush debate in 1988 on the heels of his ridiculous tank commercial. The fact that Europe is mad at Bush is not a hindrance and this strategy of Kerry's that we must reconcile with the UN won't get him anywhere.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:18 pm

It depends on if you see the US being part of an international community or whether you just want the US to stand isolated, and be damned with the rest of the world.

Bush's approach to foreign policy where consulting the international community is a mere trivality has only appealed to his stable base of voters, it has done nothing to win support from liberals or many moderates. I think many moderates would like a comprimise between the idea that the President should only care about the US and the idea that a President should serve the interests of foreign nations. Bush has wavered far more toward the first idea.

So Kerry's comments was not self-defeating for his base, because his supporters do not find it hard to believe at all that what he said was true.

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