OT: Racing 2012 (Spoiler Alert)

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:57 pm

pk500 wrote:Grosjean was the star of qualifying, hands down. What a strong performance.

Nice to see someone kicking Red Bull's ass.

Rod makes a good point about Domenicali. He should try to arrange a solid severance package now.

Pat Fry should look over his shoulder as well. That's HIS car that made it out of the garage if you can call it a car. When Luca Di Montezemolo decides to go mad and cleans house, hopefully they can lure Ross Brawn back to Ferrari. Newey already said he's staying at RBR.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:05 pm

Rodster wrote:
pk500 wrote:Grosjean was the star of qualifying, hands down. What a strong performance.

Nice to see someone kicking Red Bull's ass.

Rod makes a good point about Domenicali. He should try to arrange a solid severance package now.
Pat Fry should look over his shoulder as well. That's HIS car that made it out of the garage if you can call it a car. When Luca Di Montezemolo decides to go mad and cleans house, hopefully they can lure Ross Brawn back to Ferrari. Newey already said he's staying at RBR.

I think Brawn likes living back home again in England. Doubt money can pull him back to Italy, especially since there is no Schumacher-caliber driver at Ferrari.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:07 pm

pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:
pk500 wrote:Grosjean was the star of qualifying, hands down. What a strong performance.

Nice to see someone kicking Red Bull's ass.

Rod makes a good point about Domenicali. He should try to arrange a solid severance package now.
Pat Fry should look over his shoulder as well. That's HIS car that made it out of the garage if you can call it a car. When Luca Di Montezemolo decides to go mad and cleans house, hopefully they can lure Ross Brawn back to Ferrari. Newey already said he's staying at RBR.
I think Brawn likes living back home again in England. Doubt money can pull him back to Italy, especially since there is no Schumacher-caliber driver at Ferrari.

Seriously!? I'm no fan of Capt. Morgan but I'd say he's up there with Schu and just as heartless as they come.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:20 pm

Happy as hell to see Lotus-Renault get third in qualifying. Too bad about Kimi, but the good thing is that he should at least be competitive this season. It's hard to believe that the new season is already here.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:16 pm

A note of caution for the Lotus Renault squad would be the podium finish they scored here with Vitaly Petrov last season, reviewed at the same time as the rest of the Russian's season. It's an encouraging start and at least they shouldn't be hamstrung by their own exhaust layout this year, but this season is a long one. No denying their quality today, though, nor should there be any doubt about how good a job Grosjean did.

Rodster wrote:Seriously!? I'm no fan of Capt. Morgan but I'd say he's up there with Schu and just as heartless as they come.

For my money he's the most complete driver in the sport today, Rod, but can he motivate, galvanise and inspire a team into upping their game the way Schumacher could? Even if he could, the only way they'd get Brawn back would be to set up an office over here in England, which should set the alarm bells ringing for anyone who worked at Ferrari in the late 1980s...

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:25 pm

Rodster wrote:Seriously!? I'm no fan of Capt. Morgan but I'd say he's up there with Schu and just as heartless as they come.

Scoreboard -- just look at the numbers. Plus Alonso doesn't rally a team completely around him and drive the development of the car like Schumacher.

Michael is renowned for buckling down and motivating his mechanics, encouraging and driving them, when times are tough. Alonso is renowned for throwing the toys out of the pram when times are tough. That's a huge difference between the two men that can't be measured on a time sheet.

Brawn and Schumacher have a relationship all the way back to the Benetton days. Brawn has very little relationship with Alonso. Another large difference.

I think Brawn is quite happy where he is. If he can mold Mercedes into a World Championship-winning outfit, he will have led three teams to the world title. I wonder if that's ever been done in history.

Returning to Ferrari will do nothing to burnish Brawn's legacy. He's been there, done that. Plus the guy has more than enough money for this and many other lifetimes.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:08 pm

A line from Joe Saward's blog which has had me giggling quietly for a little while: among the regulars in the media centre, this year's Ferrari has apparently become known as Clifford.

Which one of the drivers could we cast as Emily Elizabeth?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:45 pm

GB_Simo wrote:A line from Joe Saward's blog which has had me giggling quietly for a little while: among the regulars in the media centre, this year's Ferrari has apparently become known as Clifford.

Which one of the drivers could we cast as Emily Elizabeth?

!!!

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:58 am

pk500 wrote:I think Brawn is quite happy where he is. If he can mold Mercedes into a World Championship-winning outfit, he will have led three teams to the world title. I wonder if that's ever been done in history.

Doesn't he already have three teams as World Champions? Benetton, Ferrari, and Brawn GP?

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:04 am

Didn't watch the race but just read the news. Great win by Button, off to a great Championship start. Sucks for Lewis, I read he could have had 2nd if not for the pit lane entry and safety car. What a drive by Capt. Morgan, made that sled competitive and brought it home in 5th.

Do you guys know if they'll be showing the race on Fox?

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:04 am

Fun race! I was so giddy during the pre-race show it's just stupid silly.

Looks like the Williams may be out of their major rut. First race and all, but it's nice to see the race performance after last season's nightmare.

Will this season be McLaren, then everyone else? We will see how things shake out once they get back to Europe, but after this race it certainly looks like McLaren have a good head start. But Vettel was pretty amazing in the race, so maybe the McLarens aren't that far ahead.

Speaking of Vettel, watching him on the podium just helps me believe that the guy is pure class. Button is too, from everything I can tell, and it's nice to have guys at the top you can really root for.

Alonzo was incredible. I'm one who was amazed Ferrari kept Massa this season, because I believe that his horrifying injury has sadly sapped him of competitiveness, but even with Massa doing less with the car than I believe many others could, Alnonzo really seems to have squeezed a lot more out of that car than looked possible before the race.

Poor Grosjean got screwed through no fault of anyone, really, but that's a tough way to end a race so early. Sounds like from Buxton's reporting his conversation in the paddock, the guy has an amazingly positive attitude and is ready to get right back at it. Fantastic. Maybe those guys will be able to muck things up for the top three / four teams and make it a really competitive top five teams, but I wonder if they will be able to keep up with development as the season wears on and the money flows and flows.

Mercedes was disappointing and it must be worrisome to their brass. After such a good testing period and looking very good early in the weekend, they just didn't seem to be able to keep up, much less challenge to win, even with their trick duct, and then Schumis car broke. I wonder what happened to Rosberg on the final lap. I imagine his tires got cut by that mess left behind by (Candy) Maldonado.

What a finish for the last two or three points paying positions! It will be really fun to watch the battle among Sauber, Toro Rosso, Force India, Williams, and perhaps one or more of Lotus Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari dipping down into that mess. Again it is too early, but I can't help myself, and it seems to me the middle part of the pack is a little closer to the big boys, and the battle for final Constructors standings could well be very competitive even up to third. We will see, though, because I guess the real difference comes in the middle of the season as the resources towards development really start to show.

Oh, one more thing - I don't think I like the decision to decrease the difference between the tires. I liked that the whole original concept was to create more variability during the race, to the point where they even used tires two steps apart when they first brought it in. I guess with DRS solving some of the overtaking problem, and the older tire situation bothering some by making it more about strategy than race craft, you can make the argument, but I don't know. I have a feeling this season we will see people staying away from the options as much as possible. Maybe the fact that they are all softer overall will make a difference, but I'm betting every race will be a two stopper with two stints on primes.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:12 am

Zeppo wrote:Alonzo was incredible. I'm one who was amazed Ferrari kept Massa this season, because I believe that his horrifying injury has sadly sapped him of competitiveness, but even with Massa doing less with the car than I believe many others could, Alnonzo really seems to have squeezed a lot more out of that car than looked possible before the race.

I think it has more to do with the car being built for their #1 driver and Massa having to tailor his driving skills for that sled. As Adam said and I agree, that Alonso is the most complete driver on the grid. He can take a sled and bring it to the top six of any given race. He's that good but I also believe Massa is also very capable. It's just that Ferrari has followed the formula of the designing the car around the requests of their #1 and the #2 needs to find a way to keep up with the favored driver.

That's why I like McLaren and RBR and Williams for that matter. They really have no favorites until the season starts to unfold and they need to support the driver closest to the championship.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:19 pm

It was the first race of the season and it was in Australia. You can't take much from the race and apply it elsewhere. Any way you look at it, McLaren, Red Bull, and Ferarri are still the top three in terms of race pace.

The thing that surprised me the most was Button's first lap after the start and re-start. We know these fragile tires suit his driving style and we know how good he is over a race distance. But I don't recall him being so impressive on first laps, no?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:58 am

DChaps wrote:
pk500 wrote:I think Brawn is quite happy where he is. If he can mold Mercedes into a World Championship-winning outfit, he will have led three teams to the world title. I wonder if that's ever been done in history.
Doesn't he already have three teams as World Champions? Benetton, Ferrari, and Brawn GP?

You and that fuzzy math, Donald. You are correct, sir!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:58 am

Rodster wrote:Didn't watch the race but just read the news. Great win by Button, off to a great Championship start. Sucks for Lewis, I read he could have had 2nd if not for the pit lane entry and safety car. What a drive by Capt. Morgan, made that sled competitive and brought it home in 5th.

Do you guys know if they'll be showing the race on Fox?

No. SPEED only.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:05 am

Rodster wrote:
Zeppo wrote:Alonzo was incredible. I'm one who was amazed Ferrari kept Massa this season, because I believe that his horrifying injury has sadly sapped him of competitiveness, but even with Massa doing less with the car than I believe many others could, Alnonzo really seems to have squeezed a lot more out of that car than looked possible before the race.
I think it has more to do with the car being built for their #1 driver and Massa having to tailor his driving skills for that sled. As Adam said and I agree, that Alonso is the most complete driver on the grid. He can take a sled and bring it to the top six of any given race. He's that good but I also believe Massa is also very capable. It's just that Ferrari has followed the formula of the designing the car around the requests of their #1 and the #2 needs to find a way to keep up with the favored driver.

That's why I like McLaren and RBR and Williams for that matter. They really have no favorites until the season starts to unfold and they need to support the driver closest to the championship.

RBR has no favorites? Come on, dude.

Vettel has been part of the Red Bull junior feeder system since his Formula 3 days. BMW "released" him so he could go to Toro Rosso; I'm sure that was a contractual clause.

Both Red Bull owner Mateschitz and team mentor Helmut Marko long have adored Vettel. He has been the fair-haired boy of that team since the day he first drove a Toro Rosso.

Good reason, as his talent is immense. But to say Webber and Vettel start each season on level footing is folly because Vettel is a two-time World Champion. He is the clear No. 1 at that team -- in and out of the car -- today and every day.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:26 am

Nope, they have let their guys race fair and Marky is capable of flipping them the finger and did it last year. The only time they lean with Seb if he has a clear lead in the Championship well into the season. Do they favor Seb, yes that's their boy but that's different than telling Mark to pull over. And like I said you know if it's happening because he'll be the first to say it.

It's easy in that team as Seb is the far better talent so he usually has the edge.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:39 pm

Rodster wrote:It's easy in that team as Seb is the far better talent so he usually has the edge.

That's the case at Ferrari, too. Captain Morgan is a far superior talent to Massa, especially since that spring flew from Barrichello's car at the Hungoraring and nailed Massa in the face. Felipe never has been the same.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:09 pm

I'm happy for Button. He still does not get his due IMO for being as good as he is. He has done a tremendous job considering he came into a team in which Lewis was assumed to be the number one and has carved out a nice record for himself. It's still way too early to tell which team has an edge as the best on the grid, but it looks like it will be McLaren and RBR duking things out for the constructor's title this year, with McLaren being much closer to RBR this year over last. It's hard to pick against Vettel winning another driver's title since Lewis and Jenson may end up see-sawing with each other over points. Lewis had some bad luck with that final pit stop. I thought he looked very good and did not let Jenson get too ridiculously far ahead for most of the race.

How awesome is it to have Kimi back? He looked tough considering it was his first race in a while. Once he becomes more familiar with the car I think he will provide some excitement to the races. 2012 looks to be a fantastic season.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:20 pm

pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:It's easy in that team as Seb is the far better talent so he usually has the edge.
That's the case at Ferrari, too. Captain Morgan is a far superior talent to Massa, especially since that spring flew from Barrichello's car at the Hungoraring and nailed Massa in the face. Felipe never has been the same.

I don't think that incident was Felipe's problem. I believe it has more to do with C. Morgan having first dibs on the team. Sure Alonso is a beast on the track but I think Felipe gave up with the "Fernando is faster than you, do you copy" last year?

I also think that car is a mess and C. Morgan has a better handle on it being the better driver. I remember when Fisi took over for Massa after the accident. He was worse than Felipe driving the red car.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:56 pm

I'll just say I respectfully disagree. Losing the championship in such gut-wrenching fashion at Brazil and then nearly losing his head at the Hungoraring the next year were two blows from which only the most hardy driver would recover.

Felipe isn't that tough or heartless. He's a classic nice guy No. 2, in the mold of Barrichello or Coulthard.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:13 pm

Yeah Felipe is a nice guy similar to Alex Wurz. But I do believe his motivation went out the window with the arrival of Capt Morgan. When Schu was in his final year he mentored Felipe. Right now Felipe is on an island and it's either perform like Fernando or else. That car was designed around the Captain and both were miserable during free practice and qualy, which is why I was so impressed that Alonso took a mid pack car and turned it into a top 5 finish.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:00 am

This is what I was trying to get across PK. My other point was that Ferrari made the Capt. the defacto #1 and everything revolves around him and it's Massa's job to adapt.

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport ... 73588.html

"Massa is a driver who thrives on confidence and he was full of it four years ago when he made team-mate Kimi Raikkonen look ordinary while challenging for the title. But times have changed and now he is up against one of the toughest team-mates in Formula One - only Lewis Hamilton has met the challenge of working alongside Fernando Alonso - and is under immense pressure that is doing nothing to boost his morale. "

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:10 pm

After watching the 12 Hours of Sebring this weekend I went looking for some sports car racing documentaries. Thanks to a post from Brian Ekberg, I was able to watch the documentary “Speed Merchants” that follows the 1972 World Sports Car Championship and is narrated by Mario Andretti, among others. Mario and Jacky Ickx drove the famous Ferrari Automobili 312 P during that season. The film starts off with the 12 Hours of Sebring and is divided into 11 parts. Interesting to note that Mario states that "this might be the last race run here because the track is getting so run down." Part 1 below:

EZSnappin · Post by **EZSnappin** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Nice! I'll have to give it a watch when I find the time.

Digital Sportspage

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