NFL Season 2011-2012

[Diablo25]

I said last week the G Men would beat the Packers and then go to the Super Bowl this week and I put my money where my mouth is and won . Nothing big but it does feel good being right....even if it is my most hated team in the NFL should be a fun Super Bowl...and remember, pitchers and catcher report not even two weeks after the Super Bowl.

[Lancer]

I said last week the G Men would beat the Packers and then go to the Super Bowl this week and I put my money where my mouth is and won . Nothing big but it does feel good being right....even if it is my most hated team in the NFL should be a fun Super Bowl...and remember, pitchers and catcher report not even two weeks after the Super Bowl.

Sometimes you can feel like sh1t being right too, like I was with Williams.

[XXXIV]

I wanted the Rams vs the Browns.

Then after they beat the Browns they go and f*** up Arsenal. Kind of a where I have been and where I am going tour

[wco81]

Would have love to have seen Coughlin run over and slap Harbaugh on the back and give him a half second handshake, and run off!

If I can see that Williams is a liability on the tv for the last 2 weeks how can't Harbaugh? and that whole last 12 seconds of the game was really stupid. And also those trick plays. It was almost like he wanted to prove everyone wrong with this so called genius.

EDIT - Fox wanted a post game speech from Harbaugh and he refused. What a sore loser.

Team didn't cultivate a passing offense for many years. Other than using a first round pick on Crabtree, they haven't done much to develop this unit. They signed Edwards, who did nothing and Williams and Josh Morgan were 6th round picks so hardly elite talents.

But the fundamental problem is, the WRs can't beat press coverage and Alex can't get the ball to them consistently. That is why the running game isn't consistent, because they're always crowded at the line of scrimmage.

Defenses do not fear Alex beating them outside the numbers/hashes so the wideouts are single-covered most of the time. Despite that, the WRs haven't been productive and 3rd-down conversions have been poor for years. It's not a coincidence.

[RallyMonkey]

Patriots hit the board as a 3 point favorite. Meaningless, but factoid nonetheless.

[Lancer]

Would have love to have seen Coughlin run over and slap Harbaugh on the back and give him a half second handshake, and run off!

If I can see that Williams is a liability on the tv for the last 2 weeks how can't Harbaugh? and that whole last 12 seconds of the game was really stupid. And also those trick plays. It was almost like he wanted to prove everyone wrong with this so called genius.

EDIT - Fox wanted a post game speech from Harbaugh and he refused. What a sore loser.

Team didn't cultivate a passing offense for many years. Other than using a first round pick on Crabtree, they haven't done much to develop this unit. They signed Edwards, who did nothing and Williams and Josh Morgan were 6th round picks so hardly elite talents.

But the fundamental problem is, the WRs can't beat press coverage and Alex can't get the ball to them consistently. That is why the running game isn't consistent, because they're always crowded at the line of scrimmage.

Defenses do not fear Alex beating them outside the numbers/hashes so the wideouts are single-covered most of the time. Despite that, the WRs haven't been productive and 3rd-down conversions have been poor for years. It's not a coincidence.

I've had a chance to reflect on the game now and I think all the hype and talk this week about Harbaugh being the next Walsh and how he was changing the game got to his head and it screwed with his coaching tonight.

Harbaugh basically came into the game with the gameplan that I can beat you Tom Coughlin without using my Wide Receivers. Delusional. And the last few drives of the game and the OT offensive gameplan, 1st down short route, incomplete, 2nd down , shotgun draw, no gain, and then being in 3rd and long didn't work. It was like the football gods asked him DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE ALEX SMITH IS YOUR MAN and he basically answered with a resounding NO. He didn't give Smith any chance to succeed late in the game. He was so stubborn to stick with that no chance gameplan at the end because he was 'JIM HARBAUGH' the new football coaching god. instead of maybe running Gore a few times, and setting up for a game winning FG, his ego got in the way.

It proved to be true also in that last 12 seconds where they were pinned deep and they refused to just down it and go to OT. It was like he had to prove HIS WAY the last 12 seconds of the game, how he was an unconventional genius, all b.s. And being shell shocked in the post game interview he had an attitude where he still couldn't believe he lost.

Think of how big this guy's head would have been if they won this game and got to the SB.

[pk500]

All good points, Lancer.

Harbaugh seems to be less mature on the sidelines than some of his players. The endless hat tugs, like a kid who doesn't get extra time outdoors from Mom and Dad, get very old after a while. Of course, the coddling media will attribute that to "intensity." I call it lack of composure.

Say what you want about Hoodie, but how often do you see that guy lose his mind over the spot of the ball in the first quarter?

[Rodster]

I like Capt. Comeback and the hat tugs. No different to me than Sparano's fist pump after his team got a first down or scored. I think Harbaugh has shown he's legit at this point. You don't take a team inherited from Singletary and take it to the NFC Title game in your first year in the NFL. I equate that to Lewis Hamilton making the podium in his first race in Formula 1.

The question will be more about next year because now his team will be playing mostly the best in the league every weekend. If his team can consistently play good and get back to the playoffs then yeah I think his head will explode. Alex Smith to me is like Chad Henne, good but not the guy you want when everything is on the line.

[RallyMonkey]

Say what you want about Hoodie, but how often do you see that guy lose his mind over the spot of the ball in the first quarter?

And the irony is that it is this same emotionless, statuesque approach that also makes him so despised. It's not that he "cheated", anyone that knows the game knows every team was "cheating" during that time. It's that his response is "It is what it is"….and that doesn't sit well. Ask McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, Lebron, Tiger and so on.

People want the great ones to be approachable and engaging. If they're not the natural reaction is distaste.

[Brando70]

All good points, Lancer.

Harbaugh seems to be less mature on the sidelines than some of his players. The endless hat tugs, like a kid who doesn't get extra time outdoors from Mom and Dad, get very old after a while. Of course, the coddling media will attribute that to "intensity." I call it lack of composure.

Say what you want about Hoodie, but how often do you see that guy lose his mind over the spot of the ball in the first quarter?

I give him a little leeway since he was abused as a child by Mike Ditka

As a football fan, I'm glad the SB is what it is. Ravens and Niners had great seasons, but the Harbaugh brothers talk would rival the Dungy-Lovie black coach talk for most overdone Super Bowl angle of all time. At least the rematch talk will be an excuse to watch David Tyree's catch a zillion times in the next two weeks.

The other interesting angle that will be something else is if Eli wins. He'd have to be considered the greatest Manning QB at that point, right? That seems like one of the other Baldwin brothers becoming a better actor than Alec Baldwin.

[wco81]

I like Capt. Comeback and the hat tugs. No different to me than Sparano's fist pump after his team got a first down or scored. I think Harbaugh has shown he's legit at this point. You don't take a team inherited from Singletary and take it to the NFC Title game in your first year in the NFL. I equate that to Lewis Hamilton making the podium in his first race in Formula 1.

The question will be more about next year because now his team will be playing mostly the best in the league every weekend. If his team can consistently play good and get back to the playoffs then yeah I think his head will explode. Alex Smith to me is like Chad Henne, good but not the guy you want when everything is on the line.

I believe Mariucci took the 49ers to the NFC Championship game in his rookie year but could never get over the hump.

Looks like Harbaugh is set on keeping Alex, though the play calling tells you that he doesn't have confidence in Alex to make consistently great throws. It's not an accident that Akers set the record for FGs this season.

I have a feeling they will dawdle for a couple of years before finally recognizing Alex can't take them to the next level. By that time, some key players will be at the end of their careers or will no longer be as productive.

[wco81]

Regarding the Peyton vs. Eli talk, yeah Eli may end up with more Superbowls but doesn't have the numbers that Peyton does.

Do we deny Marino's greatness or Favre's place in history because one never won the SB and the other only won one?

Peyton is the whole franchise, whereas Eli has been on better overall teams. Peyton also helped in Eli's development, from being a playmaker as a young QB to one that could keep moving the chains, is more methodical.

[Brando70]

Regarding the Peyton vs. Eli talk, yeah Eli may end up with more Superbowls but doesn't have the numbers that Peyton does.

Do we deny Marino's greatness or Favre's place in history because one never won the SB and the other only won one?

Peyton is the whole franchise, whereas Eli has been on better overall teams. Peyton also helped in Eli's development, from being a playmaker as a young QB to one that could keep moving the chains, is more methodical.

I think Marino does get downgraded slightly because he never won the Super Bowl. Whether or not that's fair, it tends to be a benchmark for judging great QBs. For years, he was regarded as better than John Elway, for instance, but that changed as soon as Elway won two SBs.

Peyton is a HoF QB and one of the best QBs of all time, no question. But he also has a losing record in the playoffs (9-10). Eli currently is 7-3 in the playoffs. He's also completely changed after winning the SB, becoming a much more effective QB and a clutch one at that. It's just an interesting turn of events and will spark some discussion if he wins against the Pats considering Peyton is highly unlikely to ever play in a SB again.

[Rodster]

I like Capt. Comeback and the hat tugs. No different to me than Sparano's fist pump after his team got a first down or scored. I think Harbaugh has shown he's legit at this point. You don't take a team inherited from Singletary and take it to the NFC Title game in your first year in the NFL. I equate that to Lewis Hamilton making the podium in his first race in Formula 1.

The question will be more about next year because now his team will be playing mostly the best in the league every weekend. If his team can consistently play good and get back to the playoffs then yeah I think his head will explode. Alex Smith to me is like Chad Henne, good but not the guy you want when everything is on the line.

I believe Mariucci took the 49ers to the NFC Championship game in his rookie year but could never get over the hump.

Looks like Harbaugh is set on keeping Alex, though the play calling tells you that he doesn't have confidence in Alex to make consistently great throws. It's not an accident that Akers set the record for FGs this season.

I have a feeling they will dawdle for a couple of years before finally recognizing Alex can't take them to the next level. By that time, some key players will be at the end of their careers or will no longer be as productive.

OK I didn't know that but Harbaugh still gets the nod for his achievement. When Mooch was the coach didn't he have TO/Rice/Young?

[RobVarak]

Always tricky to compare QB's. It's subjective, but I like to apply a test which looks at how they'd play with the same replacement-level teammates. Take an average NFL side and put the QB's behind the same team against the same defense. I tend to think the guys who are penalized for not winning SB's (or perversely not winning "enough" SB's) are given better credit this way.

I'd love to see a poll of offensive coordinators from the last 25 years asking who they would take in these scenarios: Manning or Brady, Elway or Marino etc. I think this would put the very good QB's who benefited from system, coaching or talent advantages (poster boy Montana) in proper perspective against those who didn't enjoy those benefits (Marino and to a lesser extent Manning).

I think Peyton Manning will look even better in 10 years when people look back at the talent and coaching around him and wonder how that team was an elite finisher year after year.

As for Harbaugh, the argument oddly seems to be between those who think he's a douchbag and those who think he's a good coach. Talk about things that are hardly mutually exclusive!!

[fsquid]

For the sake of disclosure, I'm a Niners fan.

Harbaugh took the exact same team that Singleterry had and doubled their wins and won a playoff game. Whatever he does works. Will it be a fad and other will catch up with him and put him in his place, maybe or maybe not. As for the strategy in the later part of the game, it makes sense. The Giants didn't do anything in the second half on offense for the most part as the defense was killing it and getting to Eli. Their points were from the two special team mistakes where they needed a whopping 40 yards combined to score.

His demeanor is what works for him. He got the job at Stanford and on his first day on the job he said he was going to kick Pete Caroll's butt and then went out and did it multiple times. it works for him and it doesn't hurt anyone.

[pk500]

I'd take Peyton over Eli, in a heartbeat.

When is the last time Peyton had a solid running back, who could RUN for the tough yards and keep defenses honest? Addai? Come on. Maybe Edge James, and that seems like decades ago.

The entire Colts' team is built around Peyton. The defense is mediocre at best and not physical, as the Colts knew they could outscore teams with Peyton behind center. The team never has enjoyed a strong running game during the Peyton era. The offensive line is undersized and quick, better for pass blocking.

No player is the fulcrum on which his team's success is based more than Peyton. Yet he landed that team in the playoffs year after year.

The argument over the best NFL quarterback of the last decade comes down to two men, one of whom is a Manning. And it's not Eli.

Brady or Peyton. Take your pick.

[pk500]

it works for him and it doesn't hurt anyone.

That demeanor may end up hurting himself in the long run. Excessive emotion sometimes swallows a healthy amount of rationality, especially in the crucible of big games.

[pk500]

Patriots hit the board as a 3 point favorite. Meaningless, but factoid nonetheless.

Meaningless? It's the most important stat of the game!

I've seen the line at 3.5, too. Tough calls, both.

[pk500]

I like Capt. Comeback and the hat tugs. No different to me than Sparano's fist pump after his team got a first down or scored. I think Harbaugh has shown he's legit at this point. You don't take a team inherited from Singletary and take it to the NFC Title game in your first year in the NFL. I equate that to Lewis Hamilton making the podium in his first race in Formula 1.

The question will be more about next year because now his team will be playing mostly the best in the league every weekend. If his team can consistently play good and get back to the playoffs then yeah I think his head will explode. Alex Smith to me is like Chad Henne, good but not the guy you want when everything is on the line.

I believe Mariucci took the 49ers to the NFC Championship game in his rookie year but could never get over the hump.

Looks like Harbaugh is set on keeping Alex, though the play calling tells you that he doesn't have confidence in Alex to make consistently great throws. It's not an accident that Akers set the record for FGs this season.

I have a feeling they will dawdle for a couple of years before finally recognizing Alex can't take them to the next level. By that time, some key players will be at the end of their careers or will no longer be as productive.

All good points. The Niners had to beat a 9-7 team at home and couldn't do it. The road only gets tougher in future seasons.

[dbdynsty25]

Whoa, Elway a better QB than Marino? Elway didn't win Super Bowls, Terrell Davis did.

[Brando70]

Look, Peyton is one of the all-time great QBs. But this idea that he didn't have a lot of talent is a giant myth. He has arguably played on the most consistently loaded offense in the last decade. He's played with two HoF-level wide receivers in Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. From 1999-2007, he had a 1000-yard rusher in every season except 2002. The Colts had one of the best offensive lines of the last decade. And while the defense has fluctuated a lot during Manning's tenure, it has been pretty to very good in a number of seasons he's played. He also benefited from spending most of his career in one of the weakest divisions in football once the league added the Texans in 2002.

The simple fact is that most of the great QBs in the last 30 years have been surrounded by very talented teams, especially in the years where they were SB contenders. Marino probably had to do more with less than anyone as most of the Dolphins teams he played on did not have great defenses and never had much of a running game to support him. Most of the other greats usually had at least strong running games and/or defenses to help them out at various points in their careers.

[Brando70]

Whoa, Elway a better QB than Marino? Elway didn't win Super Bowls, Terrell Davis did.

Not disagreeing with that. What I'm saying is, before 1997, I think few would make an argument Elway was better than Marino. Once Elway got his rings, his stature was elevated a lot, even those Davis was the motor behind those championships.

Do I think Eli is a better QB than Peyton? No. But right or wrong, championships factor significantly in the perception of QB greatness. Just like the Elway/Marino comparison, there is probably going to be a significant shift in the perception of Eli and Peyton if Eli wins another SB.

[XXXIV]

Whoa, Elway a better QB than Marino? Elway didn't win Super Bowls, Terrell Davis did.

Not disagreeing with that. What I'm saying is, before 1997, I think few would make an argument Elway was better than Marino. Once Elway got his rings, his stature was elevated a lot, even those Davis was the motor behind those championships.

Do I think Eli is a better QB than Peyton? No. But right or wrong, championships factor significantly in the perception of QB greatness. Just like the Elway/Marino comparison, there is probably going to be a significant shift in the perception of Eli and Peyton if Eli wins another SB.

Elway got to those other three SBs with less than the best. Once he got help he won two.

[FifaInspected]

Call me depressed. The only thing left is the media driven Super Bowl. The NFL season for me ended last night. I hate the manufactured atmosphere of the "big game" .. I hate the fact that it's on a neutral field. If it were me, i'd give home field to the team with the best record. Let that team's city benefit from the financial gains. If it's played in the snow.. so be it. It football. it's made to be played outside. I'd play the game the week after the championship games, ditch the halftime show and well.. put the focus back on the freaking game