OT: Racing 2011 (Spoiler Alert)

[Rodster]

Fun race in Turkey. Funny how in years past F1 defended the lack of overtaking saying this is F1 it's supposed to be difficult to overtake. Now that they have action packed races they are all praising DRS and KERS.

Gotta hand it to Capt Morgan, he drove one helluva race. Still don't think the Ferrari is a true 3rd place car at the moment.

[toonarmy]

DRS has been incredible so far. It looks like the teams are getting a good handle on it. It's nice to have so much on-track action now.

[Smurfy]

DRS and KERS worked a bit too well in Turkey. As Martin Brundle pointed out, the cars are supposed to be side-by-side going into the braking zone, not blowing past each other.

[Gurantsu]

I don't like that stuff at all. It's not racing, it's a video game. Sure it looks good on TV, which is all Bernie wants really, but it all seems stupid to me.

Build fast car. Drive car fast. Win race. It should be that simple.

[pk500]

Complaining about overtaking: Only in F1.

Jay-zus, we're not seeing NASCAR at Talladega or CART with the Handford Device at Michigan, with so many passes they become irrelevant. But we are seeing some fantastic racing so far in F1. I think the balance between artificial devices and ballsy, skilled driving is excellent this season.

News flash to the purists: Fans like to see overtaking. This is racing, not a technical exercise or a Sunday drive.

[Gurantsu]

Humbug! Back in my day they had to race on the back of dinosaurs! And the track was uphill, both ways!

I understand what you're getting at, and it was interesting to watch, but something about it just rubs me the wrong way. It's becoming less driver, more car, which back in the day seemed to be the other way around. I'm sure there are people who credit Buttons World Title to the technology, not his skill as a driver.

And F1 brings this on themselves. If they are the premier, elite motorsport with the finest drivers in the world as they claim to be, then turn off the gimmicks, and let them race.

[Rodster]

Complaining about overtaking: Only in F1.

Jay-zus, we're not seeing NASCAR at Talladega or CART with the Handford Device at Michigan, with so many passes they become irrelevant. But we are seeing some fantastic racing so far in F1. I think the balance between artificial devices and ballsy, skilled driving is excellent this season.

News flash to the purists: Fans like to see overtaking. This is racing, not a technical exercise or a Sunday drive.

Hmmm maybe they think it's too American to pass.

That's what turned me off about F1 back in the late 90's and until now. The whole series came off as elitist like it was a soccer match. You're not supposed to see 15 goals in a game or you're not supposed to see 1-2 relevant passes per 5 races. They are a rarity.

I say bring on the passing, I love it. What I would like to see though is the return of ground effects and the discontinuation of DRS and KERS. But not that DRS and KERS are overnight successes say goodbye to the return of ground effects.

[GB_Simo]

DRS and KERS worked a bit too well in Turkey. As Martin Brundle pointed out, the cars are supposed to be side-by-side going into the braking zone, not blowing past each other.

Did they, though? More so than in Malaysia, China or particularly Australia, the Turkish Grand Prix featured a DRS zone immediately after a key corner exit where traction is everything. I saw passes being completed into turn 11, the flat right hand kink in what I'd still call the back straight. The DRS zone only began on the entry to that turn.

I'm about to write more on the same topic at the usual place, mainly because I can't do the race recap I usually write on account of not being able to keep track of all the overtaking. I shan't bore you too much here, but it seemed as though what we saw was the effects of DRS and KERS being exacerbated by the differences in strategy and tyre wear. The way the rear Pirellis dropped off, there were cars in the race that would have been sitting ducks if the bloke behind had no DRS available too.

We know that under the current car platform, we can't have a rules package that creates the racing we're after without some kind of artificial aid. Technology is effectively fighting against its own advance, and it's creating situations where Button and Hamilton can be at each other's throats for laps at a time while Massa, Schumacher and Alguersuari go three-wide through the final complex. For me, that far outweighs the negatives of the occasional overly simple pass.

[pk500]

I understand what you're getting at, and it was interesting to watch, but something about it just rubs me the wrong way. It's becoming less driver, more car, which back in the day seemed to be the other way around. I'm sure there are people who credit Buttons World Title to the technology, not his skill as a driver.

In the spirit of "Weekend Update" on "Saturday Night Live," "JANE, YOU IGNORANT SLUT ... "

I think it's more driver than car this year than in the last five or six years. The "winglet" era of the mid-2000s was all aero. The drivers could do nothing due to dirty air created by all of the aero gadgets.

At least with these gimmicks, the drivers must manage more devices in the cockpit, such as the movable rear wing and KERS. I, too, would prefer that the only objects they need to manage are the wheel, a stick shift and the pedals, but those days are gone.

The current state of F1 is not the fault of the drivers. It's the fault of the aerodynamic boffins, who are the most powerful people on the technical side of the sport, by far.

[GB_Simo]

At least with these gimmicks, the drivers must manage more devices in the cockpit, such as the movable rear wing and KERS.

And the Magic Paddle. Brundle's follow-up when the camera cut to Barrichello, "Hit the Abracadabra Button, Rubens!" was among the highlights of my weekend. Which, on reflection, says a lot about my weekend.

I understand what you're getting at, and it was interesting to watch, but something about it just rubs me the wrong way. It's becoming less driver, more car, which back in the day seemed to be the other way around. I'm sure there are people who credit Buttons World Title to the technology, not his skill as a driver.

Could it not equally be, though, that back in the day we had teams who simply didn't have the time and resources to run two absolutely equal cars? In other words, that the car mattered exactly as much then as it does now, but that it's more apparent in a world of dedicated race engineers and groups of mechanics for each car? Lotus, for example, had such a track record for that kind of thing that it almost looks like a fluke when you see Mario and Ronnie near the top of the standings as a pair.

I'm being deliberately overblown here, I'll allow, but what if Alonso's efforts yesterday were the equivalent of Moss taking on the Ferraris at Monaco? Not so obvious, because the cars are all given plenty of attention and screwed together properly and all that, but Captain Morgan might be transcending his car just like Sir Stirling did in '61. Perhaps it's just not that obvious, because the chap in the other Ferrari has a much more reasonable chance of showing his potential than, say, Trevor Taylor ever did.

[toonarmy]

KERS is really not making a big difference except maybe on the starts. For the most part when one car begins using KERS the other one does as well, which cancels it out. Now DRS is whole different story. Perhaps on some courses with ultra-long straights F1 will have to revise the DRS zone because it is almost too effective. The tire wear this year is making for fun strategy. I hope F1 does not tinker too much with that aspect. Overall, let's be honest, quality is still winning out in the end. The new regulations simply make for more fun racing to watch. Racing should not be just about the car tech but also about strategy and driver skill. I think F1 is achieving a good balance, while still seeing the better cars at the top.

[pk500]

KERS is really not making a big difference except maybe on the starts. For the most part when one car begins using KERS the other one does as well, which cancels it out. Now DRS is whole different story. Perhaps on some courses with ultra-long straights F1 will have to revise the DRS zone because it is almost too effective. The tire wear this year is making for fun strategy. I hope F1 does not tinker too much with that aspect. Overall, let's be honest, quality is still winning out in the end. The new regulations simply make for more fun racing to watch. Racing should not be just about the car tech but also about strategy and driver skill. I think F1 is achieving a good balance, while still seeing the better cars at the top.

Very well said!

[Rodster]

Very interesting POV regarding DRS from none other than Capt. Morgan. He was asked if DRS made passing too easy, his answer was an empathic NO !

He said he couldn't get past Nico at the start of the race even with DRS. What made the difference was tire degradation. Once his Pirelli's went away that's when DRS, made the huge difference. In fact he went on to say that's why you saw lots of three wide at racing Turkey because DRS wasn't enough. But once the other drivers tires went away, DRS was more than enough boost to overtake the driver in front.

I think the tires are making more of a difference this year while DRS pushes it over the edge. When Hamilton took Seb for the win, it reminded me of the video Adam posted re: the Mansell v Piquet chase down down at Silverstone in 1987.

[F308GTB]

And F1 brings this on themselves. If they are the premier, elite motorsport with the finest drivers in the world as they claim to be, then turn off the gimmicks, and let them race.

Only way for this to happen is to take a trip back to the '60s. Get rid of downforce, as wings are most certainly one of those gimmicks! And skinny tires too. Minimal mechanical and aero grip would certainly separate the wheat from the chaff.

I liken the passing now in F1 to motorcycle racing. It's been the reliance on downforce and the loss of aero grip (making the trailing car unstable) for the trailing car that has limited passing for the last several years. Moto racing doesn't have the same issue, and we see a fair amount of "slingshot" passes.

Personally I like the racing this year.

[pk500]

I liken the passing now in F1 to motorcycle racing. It's been the reliance on downforce and the loss of aero grip (making the trailing car unstable) for the trailing car that has limited passing for the last several years. Moto racing doesn't have the same issue, and we see a fair amount of "slingshot" passes.

But MotoGP suffers from the same kind of "wish they could race like they used to" syndrome that afflicts F1. The difference is that the good, old days in F1 were in the 1960s; the good, old days in MotoGP were in 2006, the last year of the 990cc formula.

There are way too many gizmos on the current 800cc bikes that hurt the racing, such as traction control and wheelie control. The move to 1000cc bikes starting next season isn't going to change that, as traction control and wheelie control still will be on the bikes. The factories refuse to allow those doo-dads to be removed, as they want to challenge their software engineers.

It's no coincidence that midgets like Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa have dominated in the 800cc era. Their lighter body weight is easier to pull by smaller engines, and they don't need to muscle the bikes around due to the gizmos. It's also no surprise that Nicky Hayden was much faster on the 990s than he's been on the 800s, as he was one of the bigger riders in GP and came from a flat-track background, where the bike is sliding all the time and must be muscled into shape. Perfect for a 990 without traction control.

MotoGP racing still is compelling as hell, but the last two seasons of the 990cc era -- 2005 and 2006 -- provided the most spellbinding racing of any worldwide series that I've seen in the last 20 years. And I watch a hell of a lot of racing ...

[GB_Simo]

Eau Rouge downhill in a Renault R30, as seen from the camera on Bruno Senna's mobile phone. Thought you might enjoy this:

[Gurantsu]

OK, I'm not saying we have to go back to steam engine days, and I understand and like many of the advances in the technology, but when is enough enough? Do we really need to be controlling cars via computers from off track? How long before we have sponsors who get a boost based on TV ratings or how much they have paid? (OK, a bit of conspiracy theory sounding there, but you get the idea.) Can't we at least leave the cars alone once they get to the grid? Is there a line somewhere that we shouldn't cross? If someone described the current system to you guys ten years ago what would your reaction have been?

Take the iRacing poker night we had a couple of weeks ago, when me and that Fernando guy were going at it. It was exciting as hell, with multiple changes of position back and forth. And it was because of hard racing and finding the right time to make a move, not because I was close enough to get a boost to pass I guy I couldn't pass normally. (Of course not all the boost in the world would have caught PK!)

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, and I know I sound like an old fart, but for me, the end doesn't justify the means. Sure it looks exciting, and I have no doubt the drivers are driving their hearts out, but knowing all the other little things going on to make it that close ruins it a bit for me.

[Rodster]

Do we really need to be controlling cars via computers from off track?

I forget the year and race but IIRC there's was a McLaren that was smoking and it was fixed from the pit wall. I thought that was insanely cool. Does anyone else remember this? My memory is fuzzy. I was thinking it was DC at the 2002 Monaco GP but not really sure?

Adam where are you? You would remember that.

[GB_Simo]

I forget the year and race but IIRC there's was a McLaren that was smoking and it was fixed from the pit wall. I thought that was insanely cool. Does anyone else remember this? My memory is fuzzy. I was thinking it was DC at the 2002 Monaco GP but not really sure?

Adam where are you? You would remember that.

I was at work. For promotional purposes, I was also required to dress in a manner which drew the following comment (among many, it must be said):

"What happened? Did you walk into the shop and ask if they sold anything in 'f*ck me, that's pink'?"

Anyway, the race you're thinking of is indeed Monaco 2002. DC dominated for the whole afternoon, helped to some degree by a superb rolling roadblock effort from JPM. I think it was an oil transfer issue that caused the McLaren to start smoking mid-race (don't quote me on that, mind, because I don't think I've ever actually known for certain), but the fault was certainly fixed from the pit wall, exactly as you say.

[Rodster]

"What happened? Did you walk into the shop and ask if they sold anything in 'f*ck me, that's pink'?"

Somehow I don't want to know anymore

[toonarmy]

Got this year's Indy 500 program in the mail and it is a very nice package. It includes a Sports Illustrated 100th Anniversary edition of the Indy 500. Anyone who follows Indy Car should definitely pick one of these packages up.

http://secure.brickyard.com/Retail/Prod ... 2b3aaedcba

There is an absolute ton of commemorative stuff at the online store. Most of it is way too pricey for me, but some of the driver and track collectibles are cool to look at.

[pk500]

Got this year's Indy 500 program in the mail and it is a very nice package. It includes a Sports Illustrated 100th Anniversary edition of the Indy 500. Anyone who follows Indy Car should definitely pick one of these packages up.

Yeah, but the story in the program about the green future of racing and alternative energy sucked. The asshole who wrote that should be fired.

[Rodster]

The Donald says:

[toonarmy]

Got this year's Indy 500 program in the mail and it is a very nice package. It includes a Sports Illustrated 100th Anniversary edition of the Indy 500. Anyone who follows Indy Car should definitely pick one of these packages up.

Yeah, but the story in the program about the green future of racing and alternative energy sucked. The asshole who wrote that should be fired.

What a jackass that guy is! Letting him in the program is a disgrace.

[pk500]

Got this year's Indy 500 program in the mail and it is a very nice package. It includes a Sports Illustrated 100th Anniversary edition of the Indy 500. Anyone who follows Indy Car should definitely pick one of these packages up.

Yeah, but the story in the program about the green future of racing and alternative energy sucked. The asshole who wrote that should be fired.

What a jackass that guy is! Letting him in the program is a disgrace.