Bin Laden = Dead

[JackB1]

Al-Qaeda operatives worldwide know Bin Laden is dead, with or without a photo. Their social network might be a little slower than ours with no Facebook and Twitter, but word of mouth has traveled fast enough by Sunday to let them know he's most certainly, definitely, positively dead.

Plus this idea that a death photo will provide "closure" to the relatives of the 9/11 victims is mularkey. Nothing will provide "closure" for someone who lost a loved one that day. They're not going to start feeling better about their loss or that day because they see a photo of Bin Laden with the front of his skull blown off. The hole in their hearts and souls is permanent.

I'll tell you what I think would have helped. Precise information from the White House. If you don't know the complete story, don't put any of it out there. The backtracking and amount of misinformation that's been given out is really inexcusable. All it does is give the free worlds enemy more fodder. Personally I want to see the photo's. It would defiantly give me a little bit of closure. I want to see it broadcast every hour on the hour. I want lunchboxes and happy meals based on the photo's.
When I think about my cousin's death on 9/11 and how he died it inflames me. f*** al Qaeda and the Taliban. I don't give a damn if it offends them. Matter of fact I want to offend them. They offend me! The hate I feel for this monster will never subside. I can't even talk about giving the tyrannical f*** a decent burial. That makes me think of the thousands crushed under the rubble of the WTC. No one cleaned them.

I agree with this 100%. Obama should have just come out and said "Osama Bin Laden has been killed and we will give you more details when we are certain what they are".
This changing of the story countless times only raises more questions and reduces trust in what the govt tells us.

[JackDiggity]

Al-Qaeda operatives worldwide know Bin Laden is dead, with or without a photo. Their social network might be a little slower than ours with no Facebook and Twitter, but word of mouth has traveled fast enough by Sunday to let them know he's most certainly, definitely, positively dead.

Plus this idea that a death photo will provide "closure" to the relatives of the 9/11 victims is mularkey. Nothing will provide "closure" for someone who lost a loved one that day. They're not going to start feeling better about their loss or that day because they see a photo of Bin Laden with the front of his skull blown off. The hole in their hearts and souls is permanent.

I'll tell you what I think would have helped. Precise information from the White House. If you don't know the complete story, don't put any of it out there. The backtracking and amount of misinformation that's been given out is really inexcusable. All it does is give the free worlds enemy more fodder.

I agree with this 100%. Obama should have just come out and said "Osama Bin Laden has been killed and we will give you more details when we are certain what they are".
This changing of the story countless times only raises more questions and reduces trust in what the govt tells us.

It sure doesn't help. I would have been happy to wait for the correct info on the raid.

[GTHobbes]

I hadn't seen this story before about OBL's prodigal son, Omar, which originally ran in RS back in January 2010, but I do think it's interesting:

"Alone for the first time in his life, Omar took a car to the Pakistan border. A few months later, his father destroyed the World Trade Center, killing thousands. "I never thought the attack would be civilian buildings," Omar says. "I thought it would be a ship, like the USS Cole. My father's dream was to bring the Americans to Afghanistan. He would do the same thing he did to the Russians. I was surprised the Americans took the bait. I so much respected the mentality of President Clinton. He was the one who was smart. When my father attacked his places, he sent a few cruise missiles to my father's training camp. He didn't get my father, but after all the war in Afghanistan, they still don't have my father. They have spent hundreds of billions. Better for America to keep the money for its economy. In Clinton's time, America was very, very smart. Not like a bull that runs after the red scarf.

"I was still in Afghanistan when Bush was elected," he continues. "My father was so happy. This is the kind of president he needs — one who will attack and spend money and break the country. Even Bush's own mother says he is the biggest idiot boy of his family. I am sure my father wanted McCain more than Obama. McCain has the same mentality as Bush. My father would be disappointed because Obama got the position."

"Do you think Obama can win in Afghanistan?"

"Out of what you see," Omar asks, "what do you think?"

According to Omar, Americans are actually lucky that his father has not been captured or killed. "It is going to be worse when my father dies," he says. "The world is going to be very, very nasty then. It will be a disaster."

"Omar always says that without the head, the arms and legs will run wherever," Zaina says.

"I know this for a fact," Omar says. "People were always asking my father to attack more. They would say, 'Sheik, we must do more.' Crazy f***in things. My father has a religious goal. He is controlled by the rules of jihad. He only kills if he thinks there is a need."

"Will there be more attacks?" I ask.

"I don't think so," Omar says. "He doesn't need to. As soon as America went to Afghanistan, his plan worked. He has already won."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... n-20100120

Hopefully, with all of the intel that was obtained in the OBL raid, there won't be any of the "crazy f***in things" that Omar was predicting "with the arms and legs running wherever," now that OBL is gone. Guess we'll see.

[Brando70]

I would like to make a preemptive request to leave this thread open, even if some of the rules of DSP get a bit bent. There's good discussion and frankly I am grateful to have this discussion with the people here.

I still remember reading the SportsReviewers forums on 9/11 and the days after as many of the same characters in this thread discussed what was happening, shared our collective horror, and tried to make sense of it all. To me personally, it is welcome that we are discussing the death of the man behind those attacks.

[JackB1]

I would like to make a preemptive request to leave this thread open, even if some of the rules of DSP get a bit bent. There's good discussion and frankly I am grateful to have this discussion with the people here.

I still remember reading the SportsReviewers forums on 9/11 and the days after as many of the same characters in this thread discussed what was happening, shared our collective horror, and tried to make sense of it all. To me personally, it is welcome that we are discussing the death of the man behind those attacks.

Couldn't agree more. I respect everyone here's opinion and have found this discussion extremely interesting.
There are so many knowledgable posters here that point out new things or bring up great points....I really
miss these types of discussions...even though I know Teal doesn't miss my opinions

[XXXIV]

I would like to make a preemptive request to leave this thread open, even if some of the rules of DSP get a bit bent. There's good discussion and frankly I am grateful to have this discussion with the people here.

I agree... and yeah it has been great getting JD's input on these matters.

[webdanzer]

Q: Why is a DSP political thread like a middle-schooler cracking open a Playboy?

A: A couple of back to back Jacks and it's all over.

[ScoopBrady]

As long as this remains agenda free, stays on topic, is a useful exchange of information and doesn't devolve into personal attacks I see no reason why this thread can't stay open.

[pk500]

Your insight is informative and illuminating, as always, Jack-diggity. I'm glad the f*ck is gone, and I'm glad the U.S. Armed Forces are fighting every day to protect us.

Thanks.

Your more than welcome. I refuse to politicize this event. If any of my rant seemed that way I apologize.

Not one syllable of apology needed, my friend.

[pk500]

Q: Why is a DSP political thread like a middle-schooler cracking open a Playboy?

A: A couple of back to back Jacks and it's all over.

Now my midsection is rollicking with good-natured laughter.

[toonarmy]

I agree that the White House should have gotten the story straight before giving any details. What started as a firefight with bin Laden shooting a rifle and using his wife as a shield has now become a case of bin Laden not shooting anything and his wife not being used as a shield,and one of the men being armed with a squirt gun, with almost no resistance coming from bin Laden's people. So after the details have been repeatedly changed, Panetta saying a pic would be released then the next day the announcement that there would be no pic released, an announcement that the video of the burial would be released then an announcement that it would not be released, and the announcement of the President and his staff watching the whole thing live as it happened being changed to 25 key minutes of the operation were in fact not viewed, how in the hell are people supposed to believe anything coming out of the White House now? No wonder you have so many doubting Thomases now, including families of the victims of 911. I do not see how the pictures cannot be released at this point. The terrorists are going to be pissed whether or not the pictures are released.

Here's what irks me the most. Why the hell even make an announcement of his death in the first place, followed by bragging about how many hard drives and how much info was taken from his house? I mean wtf? The main leader of al Qaeda is still on the run along with a lot of other members of the group. Why on earth would you tell them so quickly that you have killed their leader and gained all of this information? It seems to me that you would want to keep all of this information on the down-low while processing the stuff on the hard drives and seeing if you could find the other leaders as quickly as possible and eliminate them before they knew what was going on. Sure, they would have learned eventually that bin Laden was dead and would have assumed we got all his computer stuff, but it might have taken several days at minimum for many of them to learn of this since bin Laden allegedly did not use internet or phones to communicate. The politicians were too quick to brag about and exploit the situation as opposed to keeping their pieholes shut and letting the intelligence community try to process information and jump on more leads gained from the seized computers before the rest of al Qaeda knew what hit them. It just seems to me like the military portion of this whole deal is doing things correctly and the political portion is bungling it.

[Teal]

I would like to make a preemptive request to leave this thread open, even if some of the rules of DSP get a bit bent. There's good discussion and frankly I am grateful to have this discussion with the people here.

I still remember reading the SportsReviewers forums on 9/11 and the days after as many of the same characters in this thread discussed what was happening, shared our collective horror, and tried to make sense of it all. To me personally, it is welcome that we are discussing the death of the man behind those attacks.

Couldn't agree more. I respect everyone here's opinion and have found this discussion extremely interesting.
There are so many knowledgable posters here that point out new things or bring up great points....I really
miss these types of discussions...even though I know Teal doesn't miss my opinions

Likewise, I'm sure...

I'll admit, it's nice to have a grown up conversation about something other than video games for a change...

[Teal]

As to the intelligence, the media, and the people, seem to increasingly think that they have a right to know...right now. I agree to a right to know, but if they divulge ANY of the intelligence at all, they would make a really stupid mistake. We don't have to know everything right now; we've just been groomed to think we do. Keep it quiet, for pete's sake. I still think releasing the photo is the way to go; we're in a war with these cockroaches, and if something like that makes them show themselves a little, then great. Easy pickins.

And this is not political, but is an observation: This isn't the first time these guys have bungled their information process. They really do need a better system for the release of information.

[Naples39]

It really fells to me like the government wants to intentionally create gray around the raid to plausibly deny that it was an assassination. They can't outright lie about, but "yeah, we lost video" is an excuse.

Also, regarding proof, did the government ever release any proof that it was Bin Laden behind the 9/11 attacks in the first place? There are still people denying that too.

[Teal]

It really fells to me like the government wants to intentionally create gray around the raid to plausibly deny that it was an assassination. They can't outright lie about, but "yeah, we lost video" is an excuse.

Also, regarding proof, did the government ever release any proof that it was Bin Laden behind the 9/11 attacks in the first place? There are still people denying that too.

It wasn't bin Laden, it was Elvis and Lee Harvey Oswald...

[Brando70]

It really fells to me like the government wants to intentionally create gray around the raid to plausibly deny that it was an assassination. They can't outright lie about, but "yeah, we lost video" is an excuse.

Also, regarding proof, did the government ever release any proof that it was Bin Laden behind the 9/11 attacks in the first place? There are still people denying that too.

I believe there is a lot of classified evidence that was not released, but tapes of Bin Laden discussing the attacks with co-conspirators and later admitting he was responsible (after initially denying it) were released.

[JackDiggity]

I agree that the White House should have gotten the story straight before giving any details. What started as a firefight with bin Laden shooting a rifle and using his wife as a shield has now become a case of bin Laden not shooting anything and his wife not being used as a shield,and one of the men being armed with a squirt gun, with almost no resistance coming from bin Laden's people. So after the details have been repeatedly changed, Panetta saying a pic would be released then the next day the announcement that there would be no pic released, an announcement that the video of the burial would be released then an announcement that it would not be released, and the announcement of the President and his staff watching the whole thing live as it happened being changed to 25 key minutes of the operation were in fact not viewed, how in the hell are people supposed to believe anything coming out of the White House now? No wonder you have so many doubting Thomases now, including families of the victims of 911. I do not see how the pictures cannot be released at this point. The terrorists are going to be pissed whether or not the pictures are released.

Here's what irks me the most. Why the hell even make an announcement of his death in the first place, followed by bragging about how many hard drives and how much info was taken from his house? I mean wtf? The main leader of al Qaeda is still on the run along with a lot of other members of the group. Why on earth would you tell them so quickly that you have killed their leader and gained all of this information? It seems to me that you would want to keep all of this information on the down-low while processing the stuff on the hard drives and seeing if you could find the other leaders as quickly as possible and eliminate them before they knew what was going on. Sure, they would have learned eventually that bin Laden was dead and would have assumed we got all his computer stuff, but it might have taken several days at minimum for many of them to learn of this since bin Laden allegedly did not use internet or phones to communicate. The politicians were too quick to brag about and exploit the situation as opposed to keeping their pieholes shut and letting the intelligence community try to process information and jump on more leads gained from the seized computers before the rest of al Qaeda knew what hit them. It just seems to me like the military portion of this whole deal is doing things correctly and the political portion is bungling it.

Outstanding take. Couldn't agree more.

[Feanor]

I agree with almost everything said on this page about the issues surrounding bin Laden's death, but I have to say how great it is that we can have this discussion at all only because that murdering c*** finally had his comfortable post-9/11 life ended by a bullet smashing his deranged brain clean out of his skull. I like to think they only cleaned him before dropping him the ocean because that didn't want to carry his s***-stained corpse around.

[XXXIV]

I have to say how great it is that we can have this discussion at all only because that murdering c*** finally had his comfortable post-9/11 life ended by a bullet smashing his deranged brain clean out of his skull.

A common ground has been found.

[fletcher21]

Bin Laden may be dead, but there's a new drink in his honor... 2 shots with a salt-water chaser.

[JackDiggity]

I hadn't seen this story before about OBL's prodigal son, Omar, which originally ran in RS back in January 2010, but I do think it's interesting:

"Alone for the first time in his life, Omar took a car to the Pakistan border. A few months later, his father destroyed the World Trade Center, killing thousands. "I never thought the attack would be civilian buildings," Omar says. "I thought it would be a ship, like the USS Cole. My father's dream was to bring the Americans to Afghanistan. He would do the same thing he did to the Russians. I was surprised the Americans took the bait. I so much respected the mentality of President Clinton. He was the one who was smart. When my father attacked his places, he sent a few cruise missiles to my father's training camp. He didn't get my father, but after all the war in Afghanistan, they still don't have my father. They have spent hundreds of billions. Better for America to keep the money for its economy. In Clinton's time, America was very, very smart. Not like a bull that runs after the red scarf.

"I was still in Afghanistan when Bush was elected," he continues. "My father was so happy. This is the kind of president he needs — one who will attack and spend money and break the country. Even Bush's own mother says he is the biggest idiot boy of his family. I am sure my father wanted McCain more than Obama. McCain has the same mentality as Bush. My father would be disappointed because Obama got the position."

"Do you think Obama can win in Afghanistan?"

"Out of what you see," Omar asks, "what do you think?"

According to Omar, Americans are actually lucky that his father has not been captured or killed. "It is going to be worse when my father dies," he says. "The world is going to be very, very nasty then. It will be a disaster."

"Omar always says that without the head, the arms and legs will run wherever," Zaina says.

"I know this for a fact," Omar says. "People were always asking my father to attack more. They would say, 'Sheik, we must do more.' Crazy f***in things. My father has a religious goal. He is controlled by the rules of jihad. He only kills if he thinks there is a need."

"Will there be more attacks?" I ask.

"I don't think so," Omar says. "He doesn't need to. As soon as America went to Afghanistan, his plan worked. He has already won."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... n-20100120

Hopefully, with all of the intel that was obtained in the OBL raid, there won't be any of the "crazy f***in things" that Omar was predicting "with the arms and legs running wherever," now that OBL is gone. Guess we'll see.

f*** Omar. I completely understand why you posted this. Great way to get this locked up.

[JackDiggity]

I guess these people are inflamed without seeing the death photos. Who would have thought.

CAIRO (AP) — Al-Qaida on Friday confirmed the killing of Osama bin Laden and warned of retaliation, saying Americans’ “happiness will turn to sadness.”

The confirmation came in an Internet statement posted on militant websites, signed by “the general leadership” of al-Qaida. The announcement opens the way for the group to name a successor to bin Laden. His deputy Ayman al-Zawahri is now the most prominent figure in the group and is a very likely contender to take his place.

The statement, dated May 3, was the first by the terror network since bin Laden was killed Monday by U.S. commandos in a raid on his hideout in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The statement’s authenticity could not be independently confirmed, but it was posted on websites where the group traditionally puts out its messages.

“We stress that the blood of the holy warrior sheik, Osama bin Laden, God bless him, is precious to us and to all Muslims and will no go in vain,” the statement said. “We will remain, God willing, a curse chasing the Americans and their agents, following them outside and inside their countries.”

“Soon, God willing, their happiness will turn to sadness,” it said, “their blood will be mingled with their tears.”

In the statement, al-Qaida also called on the people of Pakistan – “where Sheik Osama was killed” – to rise up in revolt against its leaders. It also said that an audio message bin Laden recorded a week before his death would be issued soon.

[ScoopBrady]

Can we make sure to link to articles rather than cutting and pasting them in the forums? Thanks, guys.

[JackDiggity]

Can we make sure to link to articles rather than cutting and pasting them in the forums? Thanks, guys.

My bad man. Will do.

[JackB1]

As to the intelligence, the media, and the people, seem to increasingly think that they have a right to know...right now. I agree to a right to know, but if they divulge ANY of the intelligence at all, they would make a really stupid mistake. We don't have to know everything right now; we've just been groomed to think we do. Keep it quiet, for pete's sake. I still think releasing the photo is the way to go; we're in a war with these cockroaches, and if something like that makes them show themselves a little, then great. Easy pickins.

And this is not political, but is an observation: This isn't the first time these guys have bungled their information process. They really do need a better system for the release of information.

The govt has been bungling intellegence for as long as I can remember...regardless of who's in the White House. It's something that
is very frustrating to us all for a long time. We pay their salaries and have a right to know everything factually. Will it ever happen? Doubtful.