Sorry, but it's another "help me buy a tv thread." I've searched and read the prior threads here and spent about an hour and half having my head spun by the eggheads at AVSForum to no real avail. Any input you guys might have would really help.
My wife/CFO has given the go-ahead on a TV upgrade as we move into the new house. Every post on the topic seems to say that the best fit for a TV depends on your individual useage patterns and needs, so here they are:
**Location
The tv is for a 16x15 family room. Fair sized, but with the qualification that the set has to fit into a corner approximately 71" wide (between a mantle and a door). This is really the only spot in the room and thus non-negotiable.
I can obviously fit a good sized unit in there. The problem is that I can't put anything next to the TV, nor can I use an entertainment center in that spot. So my various doodads (TIVO, XBox, Cable Box etc) have no place adjacent to the TV to rest their wonderful little selves.
**Budget
Top end I can afford at this point is $1300-$1700. I'm not looking to break the bank, though and if a reasonable CRT is the answer, I'd happily spend the difference elsewhere.
**Useage Pattern
I'm going to have digital cable of indeterminate content. Comcast is the provider, and they seem to offer a number of HD channels, but I have to confirm this.
My wife watches a ton of broadcast network programming, while I focus pretty much on sports and cable stuff like the HBO shows. I do have a standard Tivo, which is near and dear to my heart.
I will be gaming on this set, at least with my Xbox. PS2 is probably going on another tv, particularly with the lack of extra space around the TV.
DVD viewing is a distant third to general TV viewing and gaming in terms of time spent.
**What I _think_ I need
HD of some sort seems to be a necessity at this point. I intend to have this set for awhile, but may not be using HD content much at the current time.
I've been splitting my research between rear-projection widescreens like the Toshiba 51H83, and smaller CRT's. The widescreens are sweet but present two issues: 1) My wife may freak if she watches 4:3 programming and has to deal with stretching/letterboxing and 2) the size of the units don't provide for anyplace to put the "stuff" I need around the tv. I dont' know if that's enough to knock a widescreen from contention though. Tough call. A 36" CRT of some sort would require a stand of some sort that presumable would function as a home for my gizmos, but I hate to settle for less TV for such a dumb reason.
Anyway, any ideas? I'm open to pretty much any suggestion up to and including just getting a 12" black and white set and sticking a fork in the back as an antenna.
Thanks.
Help me spend my money!
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Help me spend my money!
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
I would get HD (in about 8 months when we move to a new house I've got the go ahead to get a new, HD TV as well.) Sounds like your wife would freak if you got a 16:9 TV and had to have stretching and/or bars... so maybe you can (gasp! to all the videophiles) get a 4:3 HDTV.
My buddy has a similar situation as you wrt space for gizmos. He built a shelving setup above his huge (52") TV and has his AMP, Satellite receiver, Tivo and DVD Player up there. It looks and works great.
Good luck and enjoy!
My buddy has a similar situation as you wrt space for gizmos. He built a shelving setup above his huge (52") TV and has his AMP, Satellite receiver, Tivo and DVD Player up there. It looks and works great.
Good luck and enjoy!
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dbdynsty25
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I've been going through the same thing. I found that the picture quality of the CRTs are pretty dominant. The reason for me is the viewing angle and the glare that you get coming off the screens of the rear projection. I will always prefer the CRTs, or Plasma (can't afford) to rear projection. My old roommate had a 55inch HD Mitsu and I hated the thing.
I'm working my way towards the Sony 40inch XBR. My sisters husband works for Sony so I get about 7-8 hundred off this particular set which runs around 2500.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSH ... IT&Dept=tv
If I didn't have that kinda jack I'd probably go with the Wega version, but at 36" which starts at $1800 and I can get it for around $1250.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSH ... 10&Dept=tv
Those are basically the two tv's I've picked after hours and hours of research. I haven't decided yet due to the fact that I've still gotta convince my girl that a widescreen is best. We'll see if that happens anytime soon. Maybe this summer. LOL.
Just my opinion of course.
I'm working my way towards the Sony 40inch XBR. My sisters husband works for Sony so I get about 7-8 hundred off this particular set which runs around 2500.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSH ... IT&Dept=tv
If I didn't have that kinda jack I'd probably go with the Wega version, but at 36" which starts at $1800 and I can get it for around $1250.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSH ... 10&Dept=tv
Those are basically the two tv's I've picked after hours and hours of research. I haven't decided yet due to the fact that I've still gotta convince my girl that a widescreen is best. We'll see if that happens anytime soon. Maybe this summer. LOL.
Just my opinion of course.
I would try to talk the wife into expanding the budget a little, especially if you want a set that will last.
I'm a giant geek, and study this stuff religiously.
There are plenty of options out there for CRT based sets within your price range that will support HDTV, but they're heavy and DEEP, so it will be difficult to get them to fit in a corner without eating up space in your room. Also, they tend to lack much of the video processing features that make HDTV-capable monitors worth the price even without HDTV (upconverting to HDTV resolutions and 3:2 pull down for film content). And, they're still subject to burn in (albiet much less than a RP CRT or Plasma).
For $2,500 or less (depending upon the manufacturer) you could get into what I believe is the best cost/performance technology available: DLP Projection. Slim cabinets, HDTV resolutions, NO burn in, ample inputs (Samsung 43" unit especially) for computer, games, HDTV etc. Excellent picture detail and bright images. Decent contrast ratio. Oh, and did I mention that you could pause a PS2 game on screen for 95 consecutive hours without worrying about burn in? That's huge (as an owner of a CRT projection set with burn in from 16:9 content being displayed on my 4:3 screen).
Also, DLP bulbs can be replaced ($250 or so) in 5 years to give you equal brightness to the day you buy it, no other set can do that. (Except LCD projectors which have their own drawbacks).
Circuit City and the rest of the big chains usually offer 0 interest 12 month financing which might put this within reach for you.
On the CRT side, definitely go HDTV as you'll see the benefits even without HD content. Also, get a widescreen. More and more shows (as you can tell) are broadcast this way and within 2 years it will dominate. Most of the stretching today is sophisticated enough that you and your wife won't notice (unless watching a 4:3 at the same time) and you'll give up a LOT of screen real estate when your 4:3 set is showing 16:9 full time down the road.
Digital inputs are huge, look for DVI and HDMI if possible, but at least 2 HD component inputs.
LAstly, don't be fooled by in-store demonstrations, bring in DVD's that you've watched a million times so you can see what a set looks like to YOU.
Good luck and ask away with any questions.
I'm a giant geek, and study this stuff religiously.
There are plenty of options out there for CRT based sets within your price range that will support HDTV, but they're heavy and DEEP, so it will be difficult to get them to fit in a corner without eating up space in your room. Also, they tend to lack much of the video processing features that make HDTV-capable monitors worth the price even without HDTV (upconverting to HDTV resolutions and 3:2 pull down for film content). And, they're still subject to burn in (albiet much less than a RP CRT or Plasma).
For $2,500 or less (depending upon the manufacturer) you could get into what I believe is the best cost/performance technology available: DLP Projection. Slim cabinets, HDTV resolutions, NO burn in, ample inputs (Samsung 43" unit especially) for computer, games, HDTV etc. Excellent picture detail and bright images. Decent contrast ratio. Oh, and did I mention that you could pause a PS2 game on screen for 95 consecutive hours without worrying about burn in? That's huge (as an owner of a CRT projection set with burn in from 16:9 content being displayed on my 4:3 screen).
Also, DLP bulbs can be replaced ($250 or so) in 5 years to give you equal brightness to the day you buy it, no other set can do that. (Except LCD projectors which have their own drawbacks).
Circuit City and the rest of the big chains usually offer 0 interest 12 month financing which might put this within reach for you.
On the CRT side, definitely go HDTV as you'll see the benefits even without HD content. Also, get a widescreen. More and more shows (as you can tell) are broadcast this way and within 2 years it will dominate. Most of the stretching today is sophisticated enough that you and your wife won't notice (unless watching a 4:3 at the same time) and you'll give up a LOT of screen real estate when your 4:3 set is showing 16:9 full time down the road.
Digital inputs are huge, look for DVI and HDMI if possible, but at least 2 HD component inputs.
LAstly, don't be fooled by in-store demonstrations, bring in DVD's that you've watched a million times so you can see what a set looks like to YOU.
Good luck and ask away with any questions.
Sport73
"Can't we all just get along? I'll turn this car around RIGHT now!"
"Can't we all just get along? I'll turn this car around RIGHT now!"
dbdynsty25 wrote:
I'm working my way towards the Sony 40inch XBR. My sisters husband works for Sony so I get about 7-8 hundred off this particular set which runs around 2500.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSH ... IT&Dept=tv
I have one of those bad boys and HIGHLY recommend it. In widescreen you have 37".... for the same price as the 34" XBR that is widescreen. Best of both worlds.
But before you buy it make sure and read the following thread regarding issues on the earlier models.
http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php ... 8&forum=34
At 300+ lbs you want it to be working right before you get it home.
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dbdynsty25
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Danimal
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I just bought the Samsung 57 inch DLP set, after comparing it with the Sony GrandWega 60 inch. I heard the Wegas were having problems with the bulbs. But it will run you about 4 grand. I should actually be clear, my wife bought it for me as a housewarming gift. We move into a new house Friday and it is being delivered on Saturday. Can't wait to hook my Xbox up to it.
Best bang for the buck in terms of screen size is CRT rear projection.
Best bang for buck in terms of image quality is probably CRT direct view.
Whatever you do, go take a long look at the store for things like how it stretches 4:3 content on 16:9 screen, how digital cable looks on an HDTV screen (higher resolution of HDTVs will reveal imperfections in digital cable signal). With DLPs, some people see rainbow effect from the color wheel.
There are other promising technologies like LCOS but it may take several years for them to filter down to the $2000 range.
A lot of the new models for this year are coming to market over the next couple of months. For instance, I bought a Sony 34 inch XBR which retailed for $2500 last Sept. But this year's model is suppose to be $2200 and it's suppose to have an HDTV tuner built in.
I went with HDTV and 16:9 even though I watch Direct TV more than HDTV shows, play games or watch DVDs. The last 3 forms of viewing are of course much superior on a widescreen HDTV (as long as you play games in widescreen mode).
Sony XBRs seem to be the most popular, despite their high price. One big advantage over non-XBR Sony models is that you get 2 year parts and labor and in-home warranty while the HS models give only 1 year parts and 90 days labor, I believe.
Best bang for buck in terms of image quality is probably CRT direct view.
Whatever you do, go take a long look at the store for things like how it stretches 4:3 content on 16:9 screen, how digital cable looks on an HDTV screen (higher resolution of HDTVs will reveal imperfections in digital cable signal). With DLPs, some people see rainbow effect from the color wheel.
There are other promising technologies like LCOS but it may take several years for them to filter down to the $2000 range.
A lot of the new models for this year are coming to market over the next couple of months. For instance, I bought a Sony 34 inch XBR which retailed for $2500 last Sept. But this year's model is suppose to be $2200 and it's suppose to have an HDTV tuner built in.
I went with HDTV and 16:9 even though I watch Direct TV more than HDTV shows, play games or watch DVDs. The last 3 forms of viewing are of course much superior on a widescreen HDTV (as long as you play games in widescreen mode).
Sony XBRs seem to be the most popular, despite their high price. One big advantage over non-XBR Sony models is that you get 2 year parts and labor and in-home warranty while the HS models give only 1 year parts and 90 days labor, I believe.
I agree that the DLP rear projectors are pretty sweet, especially for video game players with the no burn in. I almost bought one of these to replace my DLP front projection unit. However, the replacement of bulbs (~$250) may be less trivial than you suggested. I had to replace the bulb on my DLP unit from InFocus 3 times in 2 years. Twice the company payed for it, the last time I had to pay for it ($350) because the bulb was 1 month out of warranty. I quit using it at that point and have had it laying around the house for over a year. I just sold it yesterday on half.com. 
The InFocus projector was found to have flaw in the design to cause the bulbs to overheat and break early, but it still may me nervous when contemplating the purchase of the Samsung DLP.
Just my $0.02, we ended up buying the 65" Mits CRT Rear Projection TV and have been extremely happy with it. We also have a 36" HD Sony Wega that is excellent, but we still prefer the Mits. Also, the weight of 36"-40" Sony's is not trivial. I cannot move the TV with the help of my wife. I have to bribe 1 or 2 friends to come over and help, so you have to factor in the price of a couple of six-packs into the continuing costs.
The InFocus projector was found to have flaw in the design to cause the bulbs to overheat and break early, but it still may me nervous when contemplating the purchase of the Samsung DLP.Just my $0.02, we ended up buying the 65" Mits CRT Rear Projection TV and have been extremely happy with it. We also have a 36" HD Sony Wega that is excellent, but we still prefer the Mits. Also, the weight of 36"-40" Sony's is not trivial. I cannot move the TV with the help of my wife. I have to bribe 1 or 2 friends to come over and help, so you have to factor in the price of a couple of six-packs into the continuing costs.
DLPs like a lot of these new technologies, are in flux. So each year, you're going to see better performance for same or less price. Like I said, some people can't tolerate the rainbow effect so you have to check it out. Otherwise, it has a lot of positives, especially not having to do convergence and focusing adjustments that rear projection CRTs require.
The bulbs are something to watch out for.
Intel announced a few months ago that it was getting into the LCOS chip business so some people think that could mean a drastic downward pressure on prices of digital displays (DLP, LCD, LCOS).
CRTs I think get you the best image for the dollar. But the downside is the size and weight, especially on bigger screens. It will be a pain to dispose of or move around -- plasmas especially have shorter life spans so disposals of those will be common.
Before HDTVs came around, you could buy a big set and use it for 10-15 years no problems. Now, you buy an HDTV and you know in a couple of years, something better will come along because all these technologies are changing so rapidly. So it's more like buying a computer than it is a piece of consumer electronics. You can get caught up in getting better technology every few years but it's a hassle, expensive and bad for the environment.
The bulbs are something to watch out for.
Intel announced a few months ago that it was getting into the LCOS chip business so some people think that could mean a drastic downward pressure on prices of digital displays (DLP, LCD, LCOS).
CRTs I think get you the best image for the dollar. But the downside is the size and weight, especially on bigger screens. It will be a pain to dispose of or move around -- plasmas especially have shorter life spans so disposals of those will be common.
Before HDTVs came around, you could buy a big set and use it for 10-15 years no problems. Now, you buy an HDTV and you know in a couple of years, something better will come along because all these technologies are changing so rapidly. So it's more like buying a computer than it is a piece of consumer electronics. You can get caught up in getting better technology every few years but it's a hassle, expensive and bad for the environment.
That's the precise reason I'm being so deliberate in my selection right now. I'm no videophile, so I'm not worried about upgrading in the near future barring an unavoidable technological need to do so.wco81 wrote: Before HDTVs came around, you could buy a big set and use it for 10-15 years no problems. Now, you buy an HDTV and you know in a couple of years, something better will come along because all these technologies are changing so rapidly. So it's more like buying a computer than it is a piece of consumer electronics. You can get caught up in getting better technology every few years but it's a hassle, expensive and bad for the environment.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
I've had the KF-50WE610 for a couple of months now and I absolutely love it.
I'm with the DLPers... save up a little more and get yourself a widescreen. An LCD RPTV is a lot slimmer and weighs a lot less than a normal RPTV or CRT. There are no viewing angle problems, no burn in, and I get practically no glare from this TV. Beware that this particular TV has a history that you should explore, but I'm happy to say that I have had no problems at all.
My wife and I do not stretch 4:3 content and we are okay with it. I sold my wife on this set by taking her with me when I went shopping. I had done a lot of research prior to going and I was able to give her some pros and cons about each set we saw. She fell in love with this set the moment she saw HD content on it. Be aware that your regular analog signal will not look as good, but HD will more than make up for it.
Good luck with your decision. I know I had a lot of fun researching and trying to decide what I wanted.
I'm with the DLPers... save up a little more and get yourself a widescreen. An LCD RPTV is a lot slimmer and weighs a lot less than a normal RPTV or CRT. There are no viewing angle problems, no burn in, and I get practically no glare from this TV. Beware that this particular TV has a history that you should explore, but I'm happy to say that I have had no problems at all.
My wife and I do not stretch 4:3 content and we are okay with it. I sold my wife on this set by taking her with me when I went shopping. I had done a lot of research prior to going and I was able to give her some pros and cons about each set we saw. She fell in love with this set the moment she saw HD content on it. Be aware that your regular analog signal will not look as good, but HD will more than make up for it.
Good luck with your decision. I know I had a lot of fun researching and trying to decide what I wanted.
Last edited by rheller on Thu May 13, 2004 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's a sweet set, rheller. A little rich for my budget though. I'm leaning toward something along these lines at the top end price-wise:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 9?v=glance
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 9?v=glance
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
Believe me man that thing was a little expensive for my blood too, but I decided to put off buying for about a half year so I could save a little extra for it. I just didn't want to put up with the burn in, size, weight, viewing angle type stuff. The set you're looking at is nice too though.
Again, good luck. I know it's a tough decision.
Again, good luck. I know it's a tough decision.