Is ESPN / SEGA really intouch with the Sports gamer?

[Danimal]

From Team Xbox:

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5867/ESPN ... ationships

"The list of celebrities includes hip hop pioneer Funkmaster Flex; , Jamie Kennedy of the Jamie Kennedy Experiment; , Carmen Electra from Carmen Electra and the Pussycat Dolls; , Steve-O of Jackass and Wild Boyz fame; , and David Arquette, famous for starring roles in Scream and Eight Legged Freaks. Each celebrity will be found in the popular "Crib" mode in ESPN NFL 2005. "The Crib" is a virtual pad where gamers can gain new unlockable items by completing various goals. As they explore the mode, gamers will receive in-game phone calls from celebrities who are looking for afor a challenge. New items and further additional celebrity challenges will be revealed as the player progresses through the game."


Lets see Madden & NCAA on Live

or

Jamie Kenedy and Steve-O in my crib for ESPN.

[reeche]

From Team Xbox:

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5867/ESPN ... ationships

"The list of celebrities includes hip hop pioneer Funkmaster Flex; , Jamie Kennedy of the Jamie Kennedy Experiment; , Carmen Electra from Carmen Electra and the p***ycat Dolls; , Steve-O of Jackass and Wild Boyz fame; , and David Arquette, famous for starring roles in Scream and Eight Legged Freaks. Each celebrity will be found in the popular "Crib" mode in ESPN NFL 2005. "The Crib" is a virtual pad where gamers can gain new unlockable items by completing various goals. As they explore the mode, gamers will receive in-game phone calls from celebrities who are looking for afor a challenge. New items and further additional celebrity challenges will be revealed as the player progresses through the game."


Lets see Madden & NCAA on Live

or

Jamie Kenedy and Steve-O in my crib for ESPN.

I try to avoid the videogame posts nowadays but this one interested me. From the company that brought you Madden Cards and Playmaker (A fairly useless feature) I don't see your point. E3 is a marketing event. You push features that attract mainstream coverage. Not stuff that hardcore forum people are interested in. I would argue you should wait for the final product so you can judge how much time was invested in certain features and what is marketing and PR. Since ESPN Football was quite a good game last year according to most of the posts I read, I don't think your certainly going to see a lack of investment in the actual gameplay portion of the game since the crib was added as a feature last year and didn't seem to destroy the game. Also since ESPN has been on Xbox Live and PS 2 since day one, I don't quite get that connection either since that would go to show who's always been in touch with sports gamers. Just my two cents.

[Brando70]

They are certainly in touch with this sports gamer. I am glad left-handed batters can hit home runs in Sega's baseball game, for instance.

As for ESPN NFL, they have added a whole bunch of coaching stuff that was mentioned before. I like Madden, but it will have to wow me to get me to give up Sega's football game this year.

[Danimal]

First of all lets get this out of the way.

I played more ESPN then Madden last year, a whole hell of a lot more.

My point is simple, EA comes out with a big announcement, they are going on Live. Since Madden sold more copies then ESPN last year (again) this announcement will certainly bolster their Xbox sales. But the real point is EA knows how to Market itself.

SEGA on the other hand announces that I can get a frickin phone call from Steve-O in my crib. You think that is good marketing? You even said that E3 is a PR event and the push the big features. So what you're saying is getting phone calls from B grade celebs in my video football game is a big feature.

You guys may be loyal to ESPN, I really could care less what game I play. But as a sports gamer I am certainly turned off by them even wasting Fing time on something like this. Do they think that football gamers care about this crap?

[bdoughty]

You guys may be loyal to ESPN, I really could care less what game I play. But as a sports gamer I am certainly turned off by them even wasting Fing time on something like this. Do they think that football gamers care about this crap?

One mans crap is another mans treasure. I buy Madden every year and they put that "crap" EA Trax on there. Think of all the money used for lisencing the music that could have been put toward the game. If they saved all that money maybe we would see some effort put towards the Xbox version, instead of a half-assed PS2 port.

Oh and STFU about the loyalty to ESPN junk. I think you have this forum confused with other forums where fanboy threads are a daily way of life.

SEGA on the other hand announces that I can get a frickin phone call from Steve-O in my crib. You think that is good marketing? You even said that E3 is a PR event and the push the big features. So what you're saying is getting phone calls from B grade celebs in my video football game is a big feature.

Okay read their press info on their own website


NFL 2005
It’s the year of the fan and fall brings the season of people coming together to celebrate sport. ESPN NFL Football exemplifies the unification of ultimate sports fans with a coupling of "the most responsive and intense gameplay around"1 and the richest multi-player gaming experience possible. Everyone is getting in on the action with the help of our innovative V.I.P. system, allowing you to play your friends or the elite as if they were sitting right next to you! So dust off those extra controllers, grab some chairs, and get your game on!
> NFL 2005 Videos

> NFL 2005 Screenshots

ESPN Presentation - Chris Berman and new sideline reporter Suzy Kolber headline an updated ESPN presentation complete with an expanded half-time & post-game show, player of the game award, skycam and pass/run analysis.

V.I.P. System™ - After your game, save your friend’s profile to compete when he is not available! Learn his tendencies, moves, & logic for more heated battles or play against the profile of coaches around the league to better your skills.

ESPN 25th Anniversary Mode - Play those classic NFL situations over the past 25 years including "the immaculate reception," "the catch" and more. Here is your chance to rewrite history!
Always Online - Real-time stats, buddy lists, and friend connection updates all add to our seamless online play for the ultimate online community experience.

Maximum Tackle™ - Experience control like never before as defenders decide whether to go for the basic wrap-up tackle or debilitating big hit. Ball carriers have the ability to break out of tackles for extra yardage at a increased chance of fumbling.

New in The Crib™ - Now you can truly customize your pad with the new points system, allowing you to shop for unique items to style your place. Increase your items by competing against celebs - all you need to do is answer the call!

Innovative Franchise Play - Manage the week-to-week preparation of your team including workout schedules, film breakdowns and more as well as watch and react to simulated games. Also new is SportsCenter with Chris Berman anchoring and Mel Kiper and Trey Wingo bringing you the latest happenings around the league.

Breakthrough Moves - Dazzling animations such as back of the end zone catches, quarterback evasions, all-new runs, and slips, falls and trips due to real weather changes.

The Emotion of the NFL - Frantic turnover reactions, intense first down signals, quick timeout calls on the ground and the ability to manage your own outrageous touchdown celebrations!
Updated First Person Football™ - Our exclusive first person mode steps it up with new camera switching, improved audio, passing control options, and more!

Your Game, Your Music - Customize the sounds of the game by using your own ripped music to add some true stadium atmosphere.


I put everything in bold that you obviously missed.

[Danimal]

They are certainly in touch with this sports gamer. I am glad left-handed batters can hit home runs in Sega's baseball game, for instance.

As for ESPN NFL, they have added a whole bunch of coaching stuff that was mentioned before. I like Madden, but it will have to wow me to get me to give up Sega's football game this year.

As I'm glad that my players can hit open layups in march madness, you can nit pick every game they all have flaws. This has nothing to do with that.

My point is I don't know a damm person who used the crib, why would you waste time on a pointless feature, but better yet why would you make this the follow up annoucement to the EA / Live one.

ESPN may have the better game, but keep doing stupid crap like this and you will always be number 2.

[reeche]

They are certainly in touch with this sports gamer. I am glad left-handed batters can hit home runs in Sega's baseball game, for instance.

As for ESPN NFL, they have added a whole bunch of coaching stuff that was mentioned before. I like Madden, but it will have to wow me to get me to give up Sega's football game this year.

As I'm glad that my players can hit open layups in march madness, you can nit pick every game they all have flaws. This has nothing to do with that.

My point is I don't know a damm person who used the crib, why would you waste time on a pointless feature, but better yet why would you make this the follow up annoucement to the EA / Live one.

ESPN may have the better game, but keep doing stupid crap like this and you will always be number 2.

And now I remeber why I stopped posting on videogames.

My suggestion is that you spend more time worrying about the actual quality of the gameplay experience you actually get when the product actually arrives on store shelves than playing marketing director of E3. Kind of an a--hole response on my part I know, but I'm cranky today for some reason.

[Danimal]

You guys may be loyal to ESPN, I really could care less what game I play. But as a sports gamer I am certainly turned off by them even wasting Fing time on something like this. Do they think that football gamers care about this crap?

One mans crap is another mans treasure. I buy Madden every year and they put that "crap" EA Trax on there. Think of all the money used for lisencing the music that could have been put toward the game. If they saved all that money maybe we would see some effort put towards the Xbox version, instead of a half-assed PS2 port.

Oh and STFU about the loyalty to ESPN junk. I think you have this forum confused with other forums where fanboy threads are a daily way of life.

First to tell me to STFU is way out of line. I read your post daily, you seem a reasonable guy and something like that seems way out of character. You want to do it again, take it to a PM..I'll be glad to drop to that level and fire back at you.

Second, you took the line out of context. I am not, or was not trying to insuate they are Sega fans etc..etc. I am simply saying that ESPN has a better product (at least last year) but the hurt themselves everyear with their marketing. I play whatever game I enjoy more, and stupid stuff like this is not what i want in my football games.

I'm not saying Madden doesn't have stupid features, the whole madden Gamer (or whatever it was called) where it tracked how many EA Sports games you had and unlocked stuff was crap. Their soundtracks are crap.

I can't believe no one else thinks this whole feature/announcement isn't a stupid thing.

Since you added more to your original post, let me add a reply.

Thanks for your concern I read all that info, as I have been following all the stories leading up to E3 so I didn't miss it. What you obviously missed is the fact that this was the feature the announced during E3 today. I guess they left out all upgrades to the actual gameplay.

[bdoughty]

First to tell me to STFU is way out of line. I read your post daily, you seem a reasonable guy and something like that seems way out of character. You want to do it again, take it to a PM..I'll be glad to drop to that level and fire back at you.

Second, you took the line out of context. I am not, or was not trying to insuate they are Sega fans etc..etc. I am simply saying that ESPN has a better product (at least last year) but the hurt themselves everyear with their marketing. I play whatever game I enjoy more, and stupid stuff like this is not what i want in my football games.

I'm not saying Madden doesn't have stupid features, the whole madden Gamer (or whatever it was called) where it tracked how many EA Sports games you had and unlocked stuff was crap. Their soundtracks are crap.

I can't believe no one else thinks this whole feature/announcement isn't a stupid thing.

Dont judge me as you don't have a clue who I am. You proved that by calling me a reasonable guy. To quote Dennis Leary I am an ***hole, I am an ***hole, I am an ***holeiolio. You can't drop to my level because the escalator required to get there, only goes up.


Your points are so moot, I don't know what you want us to reply with? Should Sega counter with a big sign that says "hey we have supported XBL since the inception". Would that make you sleep better at night?

Or wait, how about they reinvented the game of football. That would one-up EA.

Watch the video, see the changes made to the game. If you do not like the Cribs stuff then don't use it. I dont play with the stupid mascot teams that EA wastes their time on. Yet I don't make threads about it because apparently somone must like it.

Sega can't force people to but their game and you will have to imbed that in your thick head. Some people will always buy Madden no matter how much better ESPN is. I have worked at a gamestore, seen it first hand.

[Danimal]

Dont judge me as you don't have a clue who I am. You proved that by calling me a reasonable guy. To quote Dennis Leary I am an ***hole, I am an ***hole, I am an ***holeiolio. You can't drop to my level because the escalator required to get there, only goes up.

Fair enough. I have to send Bill and e-mail and thank him for suggesting this "friendly board with serious sports gamers"

Your points are so moot, I don't know what you want us to reply with? Should Sega counter with a big sign that says "hey we have supported XBL since the inception". Would that make you sleep better at night?

Or wait, how about they reinvented the game of football. That would one-up EA.

How about responding to any of them, instead of just ripping on me. Here easy question, Do you think SEGA should have promoted this feature or the VIP feature in an annoucement today?

Watch the video, see the changes made to the game. If you do not like the Cribs stuff then don't use it. I dont play with the stupid mascot teams that EA wastes their time on. Yet I don't make threads about it because apparently somone must like it.

I don't use it. But I think the crib probably ate up a little more resources then Mascot games don't you?

Sega can't force people to but their game and you will have to imbed that in your thick head.

Really you can't force people? Thanks for clearing that up, even my thick head understand now.

Some people will always buy Madden no matter how much better ESPN is. I have worked at a gamestore, seen it first hand.

Oh you worked retail, that explains your attitude. Sorry I even bothered you in the first place.

[reeche]

Dont judge me as you don't have a clue who I am. You proved that by calling me a reasonable guy. To quote Dennis Leary I am an ***hole, I am an ***hole, I am an ***holeiolio. You can't drop to my level because the escalator required to get there, only goes up.

Fair enough. I have to send Bill and e-mail and thank him for suggesting this "friendly board with serious sports gamers"

Your points are so moot, I don't know what you want us to reply with? Should Sega counter with a big sign that says "hey we have supported XBL since the inception". Would that make you sleep better at night?

Or wait, how about they reinvented the game of football. That would one-up EA.

How about responding to any of them, instead of just ripping on me. Here easy question, Do you think SEGA should have promoted this feature or the VIP feature in an annoucement today?

Watch the video, see the changes made to the game. If you do not like the Cribs stuff then don't use it. I dont play with the stupid mascot teams that EA wastes their time on. Yet I don't make threads about it because apparently somone must like it.

I don't use it. But I think the crib probably ate up a little more resources then Mascot games don't you?

Sega can't force people to but their game and you will have to imbed that in your thick head.

Really you can't force people? Thanks for clearing that up, even my thick head understand now.

Some people will always buy Madden no matter how much better ESPN is. I have worked at a gamestore, seen it first hand.

Oh you worked retail, that explains your attitude. Sorry I even bothered you in the first place.

This has quickly devlolved into exactly the kind of post I thought it would. I'll say this and then I'm out. Catering to the extreme hard-core market is not the way to increase sales. Never will be. Other wise High Heat Baseball would be the best selling sports game on the market and would still exist. So when you market, you market your most broad features to the general public and hopefully you attract a large share of casual consumers along with the smaller hard-core people who you attract with a different feature set. This is all I or bdoughty were trying to get across to you. You are not the mass-market. That doesn't make you evil. It simply means satisfying your singular tastes and goals of what should and shouldn't be in a videogame isn't the goal. No one is saying that Sega has done the best marketing in the past. But your simple assertation that concentrating solely on "hardcore" features will suddenly explode the market doesn't jibe with the history of sports games. Bdoughty is right when he says there is a large portion of the market that will buy madden no matter what. So going with the exact same feature set and saying the exact same message as EA is not the way to compete. Finally EA puts just as much fluff and crap in their games as anybody if not more. That also doesn't mean EA is evil. Just an observation. So I go back to your original point of who is more in touch with sports gamers and the only logical conclusion is that you will need to wait and play both games when they hit the market and make that decision your self. Answering that question based on E3 marketing and hype, however, is not the way at all to derive the answer. So I hope this was the logical and serious sports talk that you were denigrating that exists on this board.

[pk500]

Danimal:

I have to side with Reeche on this one. Did you make this kind of post when Madden Cards were announced as a great "feature" yet Madden still was released with hideous defensive back AI two years ago?

The point is, EA is way ahead of other companies when it comes to including useless gimmicks in sports games. But since EA sells a sh*tload of games, other companies figure they must follow the leader and put the same kind of useless crap in their games.

So Sega added "The Crib" last year and is adding more to it this year.

Again, I ask, did you think EA Sports was out of touch when it added Madden Cards and Playmaker to Madden? What about EA Trax, another trumpeted feature that is all but useless?

The gameplay of both major football franchises -- ESPN NFL and Madden -- is as sophisticated as in any franchise outside of Winning Eleven. So while tweaks are being made to the game engines annually, both EA and Sega think some of the biggest marketing and customer perception breakthroughs can be made with extras like The Crib, Madden Cards and Playmaker. It creates the notion in many ignorant gamers' minds that they're getting more gameplay for their dollar, which hardcore freaks like us know isn't the case. But sales is as much of a game of perception as it is reality.

It's the nature of a very, very, very competitive industry. But it's daft to say that adding useless, extraneous sh*t to videogames is the sole dominion of Sega. EA is a master at it.

Take care,
PK

[bdoughty]

Fair enough. I have to send Bill and e-mail and thank him for suggesting this "friendly board with serious sports gamers"

Oh I gotcha, while you are e-mailing Bill (I am assuming Abner) make sure and mention the generalizations you used in this thread.

You guys may be loyal to ESPN, I really could care less what game I play.

I can be freindly with those who do not go to the lowest denomonator of a gaming message board.

Oh you worked retail, that explains your attitude. Sorry I even bothered you in the first place.

Ding Ding Ding another generalization. I actually treated customers with respect and always helped them. So shoot me for going against the grain.

I don't use it. But I think the crib probably ate up a little more resources then Mascot games don't you?

Mascot games, EA Tracks, Madden Cards, Fantasy stadiums (just to name a few)... Nice one sided comparison.

Here easy question, Do you think SEGA should have promoted this feature or the VIP feature in an annoucement today?

Ah one sites info = Law (you are really on top of the generalizations today, at the top of your game)

Am I the Amazing Kreskin? I was not there to see it to say they did not promote the other things. You are simply quoting a TeamXbox article. Did you see the whole presentation? Did you attend the show? Did you go to Segas booth to see what they had to say about the game.

Enlighten me.

[Brando70]

They are certainly in touch with this sports gamer. I am glad left-handed batters can hit home runs in Sega's baseball game, for instance.

As for ESPN NFL, they have added a whole bunch of coaching stuff that was mentioned before. I like Madden, but it will have to wow me to get me to give up Sega's football game this year.

As I'm glad that my players can hit open layups in march madness, you can nit pick every game they all have flaws. This has nothing to do with that.

My point is I don't know a damm person who used the crib, why would you waste time on a pointless feature, but better yet why would you make this the follow up annoucement to the EA / Live one.

ESPN may have the better game, but keep doing stupid crap like this and you will always be number 2.

Danimal, I wasn't trying to be snide, but I thought with the subject name, you were talking about more than football.

I agree completely that EA are the marketing champs. Sega has certainly shot themselves in the foot in that area.

But I actually did use the Crib. It's a little gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) but I found it kind of interesting for a bit and actually played a little paper football. I also liked the Madden Cards.

Did any of these things alter my purchasing decision? No. But DSP people are not the only people in the market for these games. I imagine Sega and EA don't just pull this stuff out of their asses, they do market research on ALL segments of the market. If realism was all that mattered, High Heat would have cornered the baseball game market.

I certainly want gameplay to be at the forefront, but adding a few bells and whistles doesn't make me think these companies are foresaking the on-field action for some fluff.

[Danimal]

Danimal:

I have to side with Reeche on this one. Did you make this kind of post when Madden Cards were announced as a great "feature" yet Madden still was released with hideous defensive back AI two years ago?

Well frankly yes, I thought it was a stupid feature. Sorry I wasn't on this board two years ago.

The point is, EA is way ahead of other companies when it comes to including useless gimmicks in sports games. But since EA sells a sh*tload of games, other companies figure they must follow the leader and put the same kind of useless crap in their games.

So Sega added "The Crib" last year and is adding more to it this year.

Again, I ask, did you think EA Sports was out of touch when it added Madden Cards and Playmaker to Madden? What about EA Trax, another trumpeted feature that is all but useless?

Again, yes I think those features (aslthough I don't hate playmaker) are just as stupid. Maybe the topic of my post was worded incorrectly. Maybe instead of saying out of touch, I should have said look at this stupid ass feature, would that of helped.

The gameplay of both major football franchises -- ESPN NFL and Madden -- is as sophisticated as in any franchise outside of Winning Eleven. So while tweaks are being made to the game engines annually, both EA and Sega think some of the biggest marketing and customer perception breakthroughs can be made with extras like The Crib, Madden Cards and Playmaker. It creates the notion in many ignorant gamers' minds that they're getting more gameplay for their dollar, which hardcore freaks like us know isn't the case. But sales is as much of a game of perception as it is reality.

It's the nature of a very, very, very competitive industry. But it's daft to say that adding useless, extraneous sh*t to videogames is the sole dominion of Sega. EA is a master at it.

Take care,
PK

I agree with what you ahve said. My point was not that useless features are why SEGA is behind. My point was simple.

EA made big news with the Live announcement. Regardless of the fact that SEGA has supported it from the get-go. It was still big news.

I was hoping SEGA could come up with some big news of their own. I was hoping for an online leagues announcement or something.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I play both games, I enjoy ESPN a bit more. I enjoy NCAA over all of them. I really don't want to argue this anymore, I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. It's no big deal to you guys, thats fine I appreciate everyones opinion.

[reeche]

From Team Xbox:

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5867/ESPN ... ationships

"The list of celebrities includes hip hop pioneer Funkmaster Flex; , Jamie Kennedy of the Jamie Kennedy Experiment; , Carmen Electra from Carmen Electra and the p***ycat Dolls; , Steve-O of Jackass and Wild Boyz fame; , and David Arquette, famous for starring roles in Scream and Eight Legged Freaks. Each celebrity will be found in the popular "Crib" mode in ESPN NFL 2005. "The Crib" is a virtual pad where gamers can gain new unlockable items by completing various goals. As they explore the mode, gamers will receive in-game phone calls from celebrities who are looking for afor a challenge. New items and further additional celebrity challenges will be revealed as the player progresses through the game."


Lets see Madden & NCAA on Live

or

Jamie Kenedy and Steve-O in my crib for ESPN.

Broke my word because I'm going to post one more thing. Look I don't disagree with you. I'm not going to go into my crib and play celebrity personalities so the feature does nothing for me. Then again though, I don't go into franchise mode either. I only play other people online or next to me, so for me any additions to franchise are useless cause I don't play that mode. They could concentrate 100% on exhibition and online only and that would satisfy me but there are a lot of other gamers who want things that I don't necessarily care about like Franchise mode for example. I understand that and as long as the core solid gameplay is done well, I'm happy. That's simply the tact I was suggesting you take. Because marekting has nothing to do with the end quality of the game.

[bdoughty]

While both High Heat and WE have been mentioned I think the biggest example of how these little extras sell a game is in the basketball genre.

NBA Inside Drive 2004 plays the best game of basketball. For me it is not even close when in how it is recreating the true speed of the NBA and fluidity of the players.

Yet no special shoe unlockables
No 24/7 mode

Just a great game of hoops that can be played online.


No Bling Bling = Limited sales

[Danimal]

Am I the Amazing Kreskin? I was not there to see it to say they did not promote the other things. You are simply quoting a TeamXbox article. Did you see the whole presentation? Did you attend the show? Did you go to Segas booth to see what they had to say about the game.

Enlighten me.

Nope, I was just reporting something I read on a few sites, something you have been doing the last few days.

Maybe if I had worded the subject line like below it would have went over better:

What do you think about this feature?

But as I said to PK, I really have no desire to keep arguing this. You apparently from one post have decided I am worthy of your wrath, disdain whatever. So be it, I am just here to discus things without it getting personal.

[XXXIV]

My take

NFL Football= Sega
NCAA Football = EA
NBA= MS
NCAA BBall= Sega
Soccer= Konami
Hockey=EA
Baseball=Sega

When it comes to quality......
SEGA is definately holding their own

Sales...Forget about it...EA is king.....Going Live is only going to make em mo $$$$$$$$$$.....Hopefully it will PUSH SEGA to keep expanding that envelope with the XBOX. Looks that way with ESPN NFL 2K5. We will see.

[bdoughty]

So be it, I am just here to discus things without it getting personal.

Well peachy keen. Just try practicing what you preach.

...

EDIT:

Oh you want to see what the average gamer thinks about The Crib? The younger gamer that is easily amused by bright lights and pics of hot women.


http://www.espnvideogames.com/community ... hp?t=15576

I could add many more links for many other forums with the same sentiment, but that would be redundant. Though it has been stated many times above. Those who post here are not your average sports gamer.

...

[Danimal]

Oh you want to see what the average gamer thinks about The Crib? The younger gamer that is easily amused by bright lights and pics of hot women.


http://www.espnvideogames.com/community ... hp?t=15576

I could add many more links for many other forums with the same sentiment, but that would be redundant. Though it has been stated many times above. Those who post here are not your average sports gamer.

...

Well there is no arguing with that. I guess ESPN is Off the Chain!

[ScoopBrady]

This is what I have to add:

IMO ESPN finally surpassed Madden last year in terms of gameplay and overall quality of product. Sadly, it didn't surpass Madden in sales. In fact, nobody has touched EA in sales in any sports game lately.

Now take a look at EA's games like Tiger Woods, Fight Night, NBA Street, and NFL Street. Those games cater to the bling-bling (god I f***in hate that term and I'm so ready for it to die) crowd with their hip-hop soundtracks, out-of-place DJ announcers, and graffiti art style while relying on name recognition and history to keep the longtime players.

It's only natural for Sega to notice this and start coming up with ideas of their own. Last year they even added First-Person-Football which I thought was very cool and hope they expand and perfect that mode (which I hear they are as you can now switch from First-Person to normal camera at any time during a game).

Lastly, with a development time of less than a year no sports games make signifigant changes to their games in the gameplay side of things. You will see new features such as new moves but most of the time is spent on refining the game engine, tweaking the AI, graphics, presentation, etc...

These things are added to the game so that when Johnny Reviewer from IGN or Gamespot review the game they can talk about how neat all of these features are since they don't care about sports games like we do. To them unlockables are what gives a sports game legs, to us it's gameplay. And the sad truth is that Average Joe gamer who wants to get a sports game will listen to reviews and pick which game has the most cool s***.

[bdoughty]

Oh you want to see what the average gamer thinks about The Crib? The younger gamer that is easily amused by bright lights and pics of hot women.


http://www.espnvideogames.com/community ... hp?t=15576

I could add many more links for many other forums with the same sentiment, but that would be redundant. Though it has been stated many times above. Those who post here are not your average sports gamer.

...

Well there is no arguing with that. I guess ESPN is Off the Chain!

Trust me it pains me to post that link. It pains me to visit the IGN forums, but you can get some good news updates there. Sadly the hardcore sports gamer is a dying breed.


We can now smokeum peace pipe.

[Danimal]

Trust me it pains me to post that link. It pains me to visit the IGN forums, but you can get some good news updates there. Sadly the hardcore sports gamer is a dying breed.


We can now smokeum peace pipe.

Cool

My favorite response in that thread was one guy says:

"Can we unlock Carmen Electra posters"

And the other guys says:

"Can this game get any better!"

[davet010]

Virtual celebs in my virtual crib ?

BFW.