NFL Season 2010

[XXXIV]

And he's a F'n liar.

and your point?

[pk500]

When was Darryl Stingley paralyzed? Wasn't that in the 70s?

Tatum was the exception then, not the rule, demonized by many around the league at that time. His NFL offspring these days are glorified by fans, media and even the NFL in a twist of cruel irony. The NFL Store sells a DVD on NFL.com called "Point of Impact," the cover of which shows a wide receiver getting ruined by a defensive back in a big hit.

And didn't Ronnie Lott make a hall of fame career out of being a hard hitter? I've got a picture of Lambert hanging in my office where he's missing most of his front teeth. Think he lost all those choppers from arm tackling? C'mon.

See the forest through the trees, please. You can be a huge hitter and not lead with your head.

Guys today are pussies -- or at least some are. You'll never see Hines Ward crying about stuff like this -- because he's tough enough to get up after hard hits, even after more than 10 years of making his living on crossing and other short patterns (he never has been an outside burner).

Hines Ward's ass would have been on the turf if he took the billy-goat helmet hit from Brandon Meriweather last Sunday. Todd Heap is no p*ssy -- he's a big, strong tight end. 6-5, 252, to be exact. And Meriweather's Dodge Ram hit knocked him into an alternative solar system.

So please don't tell that Ward would have walked away from that hit like some kind of Marvel Comic superhero.

[Rodster]

Guys today are pussies -- or at least some are. You'll never see Hines Ward crying about stuff like this -- because he's tough enough to get up after hard hits, even after more than 10 years of making his living on crossing and other short patterns (he never has been an outside burner). Baltimore's talked about having a bounty on him for years -- which hasn't made a difference, at all.

You mean 'hit 'em when they ain't looking' Hines Ward?

[Danimal]

Here's what our QB had to say in an interview with Bill Cowher last weekend:

"You get accused of things and it hurts, especially when you know that there is no truth to it at all. I could sit here and say honestly that I would never and have never harmed a female and never would.

I mean, I have a sister. I'm the only boy in the family, I'm the only grandson. So, I would never ever do that and there's vicious allegations that are not true and it does hurt and it's not fun to be accused of things.’’

Wow dude.

I knew you wore blinders but come on.

[GTHobbes]

Guys today are pussies -- or at least some are. You'll never see Hines Ward crying about stuff like this -- because he's tough enough to get up after hard hits, even after more than 10 years of making his living on crossing and other short patterns (he never has been an outside burner). Baltimore's talked about having a bounty on him for years -- which hasn't made a difference, at all.

You mean 'hit 'em when they ain't looking' Hines Ward?

That's the one -- the same guy who's been instrumental in helping to win 2 of our 6 Super Bowl championships.

[wco81]

I could have sworn there was some kind of groundswell from Steelers fans to get rid of Rothlisberger when the news of his deeds came out. Didn't even one of the Rooneys' express displeasure?

But that's all squashed now?

Maybe if he had a longer suspension and the team kept winning without him, he wouldn't have been so easily forgiven.

[pk500]

Here's what our QB had to say in an interview with Bill Cowher last weekend:

"You get accused of things and it hurts, especially when you know that there is no truth to it at all. I could sit here and say honestly that I would never and have never harmed a female and never would.

I mean, I have a sister. I'm the only boy in the family, I'm the only grandson. So, I would never ever do that and there's vicious allegations that are not true and it does hurt and it's not fun to be accused of things.’’

You mean objective journalist Bill Cowher, the guy who coached Roethlisberger? I'm sure there were some hard-hitting questions in that interview. I'm sure The Jaw parried that bit of piety from Big Ben with some probing follow-ups, such as asking about the NFL investigation into his conduct that led to the suspension.

Seriously, if you buy Roethlisberger's statement hook, line and sinker, I have some great oceanfront fishing for you in Manitoba.

You're a Steelers' super fan. We get it.

[GTHobbes]

The dude was accused of something but not convicted or even charged. Doesn't take a super fan to want to move on. I could say any number of things about any one here. Does that make it true?

[pk500]

The dude was accused of something but not convicted or even charged. Doesn't take a super fan to want to move on. I could say any number of things about any one here. Does that make it true?

If Roethlisberger is as pure as fresh snow, then why did Goodell suspend him under the auspices of the NFL personal conduct policy?

[Diablo25]

Let's not forget the accusation of rape in Lake Tahoe a few years ago. I'm not saying a rape occurred but two accusations of assault? Where there is smoke there is usually fire.

[GTHobbes]

I'm surprised you guys don't realize how easy it is to make allegations against someone famous. Guess they oughta just do away with the whole criminal justice system, since an allegation must equal guilt. Sheesh.

If there was any evidence of guilt, you don't think a southern DA would bring charges against a northern boy asap? C'mon down here sometime.

[pk500]

I'm surprised you guys don't realize how easy it is to make allegations against someone famous. Guess they oughta just do away with the whole criminal justice system, since an allegation must equal guilt. Sheesh.

If there was any evidence of guilt, you don't think a southern DA would bring charges against a northern boy asap? C'mon down here sometime.

I'm not talking about the criminal justice system. I'm talking about the NFL suspension of Roethlisberger for violating its personal conduct policy, around which you continue to tap-dance.

Do you think Goodell would arbitrarily suspend one of his league's biggest stars without cause? If so, then why?

[Rodster]

I agree with the consensus that if a player gets suspended by the league it was probably cause the NFL has enough evidence a player did something wrong. The last thing the NFL wants is for a Tom Brady, Big Ben or anyone one of it's other Stars not playing. It's bad for their business.

[GTHobbes]

Getting back to the hits that started this discussion, I'm wondering if the guys that are against these kinds of hits in football...watch boxing or auto racing. In boxing, the object is to beat your opponent's head in. And I'm not a fan of car racing, but don't a lot of people enjoy it for the crashes?

[Jackdog]

As a high school linebacker coach I'm very happy to see the NFL taking action on cheap shots. We have seen an uptick of cheap shots and concussions this year. Kids are trying for "Kill Shots" or stripping the ball instead of a basic solid drop them where they are across the bow tackle. I've put kids including my son on the bench for these type of actions. It's dangerous and selfish. The whole "Boom" thing has taken on a life of it's own. Thanks Nike

PK my brother,you are dead on with your comment about about the proper way to tackle. We teach as we were taught. "See what you hit" Head up,never down. Wrap up and drive the runner back. The piss poor technique of trying to strip the ball while the runner continues to get yardage pisses me off as well. That a complete different thread.

Another big issue I see as of late is the amount of times helmets are being knocked off on all levels. We see around 5 to 6 a game. Have any of you guys noticed this?

The new helmets are like buckets. My son's helmet(Riddell Revolution Speed) weighs a hair under 9lbs. That's 4lbs heavier than the Riddell I wore 10 years ago. Our high school is changing to the lighter "Revolutions" next year. We hope that will cut back on neck and head issues we had this season. IMO a 10lb helmet on a NFL player trying for a "Kill Shot" is beyond dangerous. It could be lethal.

PS....Hey PK,based on the number he's picked,who is Dom's favorite player?

[davet010]

Jack

I seem to remember a discussion a good while ago about how the ever-increasing weight and power of players even at the College level was making things more and more dangerous. But as you quite rightly say, that is now being further modified by this 'big hits' mentality - and in a sense, the fact that players are wearing what is supposed to be protective equipment actually makes them try to use them as offensive weapons for these dangerous hits. There is no other sport which allows arm tackling, be it either code of rugby or whatever, where a player is going to lead into a tackle with his head, because for one thing he's unlikely to be wearing anything more than a scrum cap, if at all.

So, Harrison, stop your bleating. You are not tackling players, you are headbutting them. If that's the game you were taught, then whoever did so did you no favours. If you want to retire, then fine, go off and do so. Maybe that'll save other people from concussions and serious repercussions for the rest of their lives.

[Jackdog]

Jack

I seem to remember a discussion a good while ago about how the ever-increasing weight and power of players even at the College level was making things more and more dangerous. But as you quite rightly say, that is now being further modified by this 'big hits' mentality - and in a sense, the fact that players are wearing what is supposed to be protective equipment actually makes them try to use them as offensive weapons for these dangerous hits. There is no other sport which allows arm tackling, be it either code of rugby or whatever, where a player is going to lead into a tackle with his head, because for one thing he's unlikely to be wearing anything more than a scrum cap, if at all.

So, Harrison, stop your bleating. You are not tackling players, you are headbutting them. If that's the game you were taught, then whoever did so did you no favours. If you want to retire, then fine, go off and do so. Maybe that'll save other people from concussions and serious repercussions for the rest of their lives.

Good points Dave. These guys know a little bit about the sport. As a Packer fan I never thought I would agree with Ditka on anything. I was wrong.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ?related=1

Mike Ditka, Joe Paterno think facemasks do more harm than good
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 21, 2010 11:55 AM ET
With everyone in the football world talking about helmet-to-helmet hits this week, a couple of old-school football guys are asking whether modern equipment designed to help players is actually promoting some of the most violent collisions.

Joe Paterno, the 83-year-old Penn State coach, is old enough to remember the days when some players didn't even wear helmets, and the helmets that did exist were more like leather hats, with no protection for the face. He wonders if football should return to those days.

"I've been saying for 15 years we ought to get rid of the facemask," Paterno said on his weekly conference call. "Then you go back to shoulder blocking, shoulder tackling, and you wouldn't have all those heroes out there."

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review quotes Paterno as adding, "We used to have one single bar; now we have a weapon."

Mike Ditka played for the Bears while wearing a facemask that consisted of one single bar, and he'd be fine with eliminating the facemask altogether. And he points out that you can't have a helmet-to-helmet hit if no one is wearing a helmet.

"I don't think people would strike with the head as much," Dikta said. "You would learn to strike with the shoulder pads if you didn't have a helmet on your head."

The Wall Street Journal reported last year that players in Australian football, who don't wear helmets or much of any padding at all, suffer more injuries overall than NFL players, but fewer concussions. In Australia they tend to lead with their shoulders, not their heads.

It seems extraordinarily unlikely that we'll ever see an NFL game without helmets and facemasks. But last year John Madden said he and Roger Goodell had discussed the idea of helmet-free practices. There's some merit to the idea that helmets and facemasks just encourage players to run head-first and face-first into each other.

[GTHobbes]

Looks like Hines Ward agrees with me that the blame for some of these hits lies more on the lousy QB and/or WR:

"'That's football' says Steelers' Ward"

""That's football," Ward said. "It's a tough game. It has to be the toughest sport out there aside from maybe mixed-martial arts."

Ward knows it from all angles. During his 13-year career, he has taken his share of big hits and has said he has played with concussion-like symptoms. He also has delivered a number of infamous blocks on defenders, among them Rod Woodson, Ed Reed and Bart Scott. In the 2008 season, he broke the jaw of Cincinnati Bengals linebacker Keith Rivers. After the season, the NFL banned that sort of blindside hit. It's known as the Hines Ward rule.

"It's a tough game," Ward said again. "When we sign that contract, we know the risks. You don't have to play if you think it's too rough. We have guys quit in training camp every year because they can't take it. It's not for everybody. But those who play the game know the risks and are willing to take them."

Ward said a lot of the violent hits on pass plays across the middle could be eliminated if receivers played smarter. Harrison was able to deliver his blow to Massaquoi because the receiver came into his zone.

"You can't just run through zone coverage," Ward said. "If you run by one guy and then another guy, you have to know there's still going to be a third guy there waiting for you.

"That's why you always see me sitting down [stopping] when I see zone coverage. You're not supposed to run through zone coverage. You're supposed to find the opening and sit down."

Ward said quarterbacks -- especially young quarterbacks -- also need to have more regard for their receivers' safety. Browns rookie Colt McCoy filled in for injured veterans Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace against the Steelers and made his NFL debut.

"It's funny, I was talking to Massaquoi about quarterbacks pregame," Ward said. "I told him it's rough playing with three different quarterbacks. It's especially tough playing with a rookie. If he considers you his go-to guy, he's going to watch you run your route the whole way. That's what happened on that play when [Massaquoi] was hit. [McCoy] followed him with his eyes the whole way. James saw that and knew that pass was coming."

Robinson's hit on Jackson couldn't be so easily avoided, Ward said.

"His quarterback [Kevin Kolb] didn't see the cornerback there and led him right into him. What was [Robinson] supposed to do? He led with his shoulder. That's a good football play. If he tackles him low, he blows out his knees and ends his career. Is that what the league's trying to tell us it wants?"

Like many NFL players, Ward is troubled by what he calls the league's "hypocrisy." Pictures of Harrison's hit on Massaquoi were available for purchase through the NFL website until KDKA-TV reported on it and embarrassed league officials into pulling the photos. "They said it was a mistake, but they know what's on their website," Ward said.

The Steelers are just as guilty of the hypocrisy. At least once in each home game at Heinz Field, they play Styx's song "Renegade" with an accompanying scoreboard video that highlights many of the hits by Steelers players that the NFL now is saying are illegal. Ward's block of Rivers is on it. So are safety Ryan Clark's hits on the Patriots' Wes Welker and the Ravens' Willis McGahee. The crowd loves it. The Steelers' defenders get geeked. But does that make it any less hypocritical?

And don't even get Ward started on the NFL's plan to go to an 18-game schedule.

"They say they care about the players' safety and they want to add two games?" he asked. "If they really cared about us, they should give us health care for life. But you know that's not going to happen."

Still, Ward plans on showing up Sunday in Miami to play the Dolphins. As he said, the game isn't for everybody. But, clearly, it's for him, violence, warts and all."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10295/1097187-66.stm

[HipE]

I'm as big of a Steelers fan as there is, and I still think Roethlisberger is a world class d*****bag. It didn't take anybody a whole lot of digging to see he has acted like one at all times in all situations from high school on. I don't think anything the woman said in the Tahoe case is at all credible, but Ben was definitely in the wrong with the girl in Georgia. Even if the act was consensual (which it really couldn't be given the state the girl was in), it was still some disgusting predatory behavior by Ben. And I also don't buy his carefully orchestrated image makeover. He is what he is, and it is only a matter of time before the stories start to surface again.

That being said, I think most people are starting to realize that it probably isn't an isolated few players who are morally bankrupt, and if you are rooting for your team based on what good guys they all are, it is probably time to give up on the NFL. I'll still root for Ben because I want him to perform well so that my team wins, but I'm not going to feel good for him personally as a result of it. It may make me a hypocrite, but it is a lot more enjoyable to follow a team that wins In regards to Harrison, I don't buy that he is completely innocent in his personal life or professional life as well. The only reason he and Ben are still with the team is because they are indispensable players. The Steelers sure were quick to dump Cedrick Wilson when he had an altercation with his girlfriend, and Santonio Holmes was gone as well since he was facing a four game suspension in the last year of his contract. And which transgression was worse, Holmes tweeting "wake and bake" and being pulled over with marijuana in his car, or Ben liquoring up a 20 year old girl and isolating her in the bathroom of a bar so that he could force an encounter which she clearly didn't seem to be pursuing?

[Rodster]

I was amazed at the weight of an NFL helmet. I picked one up at a local sports store and those things including the helmet and facemask are both heavy and solid. You add the speed/weight/thrust of the player and you get a nasty impact.

I don't know if I read wrong so i'm up for correction but I read that an NFL violent collision is like two cars colliding head on at around 60mph. I hope I read that wrong because that's bad for human body parts.

[Naples39]

I dare not tread on the hits issue as it reminds me of 'pansification' complaints in the NHL, but why in the world would anyone take that moron Harrison seriously?

This is how I feel -- if you want to see the Pittsburgh Steelers, invite us when we don't win the Super Bowl. As far as I'm concerned, he [Obama] would've invited Arizona if they had won.

This guy being on my side in any argument would make me second-guess my position.

[pk500]

Getting back to the hits that started this discussion, I'm wondering if the guys that are against these kinds of hits in football...watch boxing or auto racing. In boxing, the object is to beat your opponent's head in. And I'm not a fan of car racing, but don't a lot of people enjoy it for the crashes?

The object of boxing is as you described -- to hit the opponent in the head and body and either knock out or outscore the opponent. There's no ambiguity in that. It's clear, pure.

But there ARE rules against kidney punching, low blows, punches to the back of the head, no backhand punches, no thumbed punches, etc. It's not a free-for-all.

The last time I checked, the aim of football was to score more points than the other team. Hitting is part of it, but there are rules to define how and where players can hit, just as there are in boxing.

So your attempt at an apples-to-apples comparison ends being more like apples-to-zucchini.

Anyone who watches motorsports for the crashes is not a racing fan. They're an idiot. Period.

Finally, nice try at a veiled open question, GT. I'm not vain, but I'm clever enough to know that I'm the biggest pimp of boxing at DSP and one of the biggest pimps of auto racing. So the next time you have a direct question for me to address my apparent contradictions, just ask me straight to my face. I can take it -- really.

[pk500]

Jack-diggity! Love the pic. Hell, Dom even looks like Mike Hart with his eyes looking all over for holes and his free arm cocked high.

You were playing football 10 years ago, brother? In the service? For a semi-pro team?

[pk500]

Ditka and Paterno's thoughts are extreme, but there is merit. I stopped playing organized football after eighth grade, but I played organized hockey until about eight years ago.

Everyone in my rec hockey league was required to wear a helmet and a cage, and high sticking was prevalent. You knew you could recklessly lift your stick near a guy's face or head because it was completely protected.

Contrast that with the pond hockey I play, in which I'm one of the few guys who even wears a helmet. And I never wear a cage on the pond. Sticks stay down because guys know hardly anyone has melon protection and no one has face protection.

The game is a hell of a lot more pure on the pond. And at age 45, it's a hell of a lot more fun for me.

[pk500]

Marcellus Wiley sang the praises of this helmet at ESPN.com:

http://www.xenith.com/

Looks like a pretty cool concept to me, especially how the inner plastic webbing is connected to the chin strap holder. The shock absorbers also are pretty novel.