OT (political): Support the troops?

ProvoAnC · Post by **ProvoAnC** » Mon May 03, 2004 11:06 pm

You're exactly right, I don't care about the Geneva Convention. War isn't a goddamn soccer match. As anyone in any kind of military/protective service will tell you, you don't match your oppponents level of force, you exceed it and maintain control. If you want to fight fair, go play cricket. I have yet to be in a fair fight, and I still have yet to lose

My motto: if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin.

freshy · Post by **freshy** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:39 am

Titantron, if you notice in your 'no green camo' picture, that only his armor vest is green. He's a Marine, and he has deserts on. If the Marines, the least-funded sevice, can outfit their troops with desert, all US forces can. 99% of the body armor vests I saw in Southwest Asia were woodland camo. Also, none of those men have insignia on their uniforms, a few are wearing non-regulation headgear or no headgear at all. About the only guys who get away with that would be special ops types, and they are the best funded guys around - and would have deserts, or be in civilian clothes. Do me a favor next time too, and don't link pictures from an Islam 'death to Americans' site. Check http://www.albasrah.net if you want to see the kind of quality, even-handed commentary those guys produce. In related news, next time you want to spew anti-American propaganda, maybe you ought to do it with some actual factual evidence, not some slipshod, back-alley porno a couple of Islam extremeists made to try to make the US forces look bad. Incidentally, if you could go ahead and move to Iraq and help out your 'resistance against the foreign invader' buddies and take up arms against us, that'd be great, nothing would please me more than to see your big, empty skull in my sight picture.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:03 am

TheFormerBrett44 wrote:
Parker wrote:The prior regime was notorious for forcing men to leave their families and fight for causes they didn't believe in. It's not a great leap to say this, there is documented evidence.
The former regime was also notorious for turning the old mustard gas on their own people and putting a bullet behind your ear just for the fun of it. Hell, if you lost a soccer game your were tortured.

It's a good thing they're only being "beaten up" and pissed on by Americans, if it's even happening on a widescale which I highly doubt it is. The pictures of British troops doing the same thing and published in The Sun have already been virtually proven as being staged and faked. The former regime would have been a tad more violent and final when it came to the punishing those who lost a war to "infidels".

Also, if anyone believe those pictures at the beginning of this thread were real you must have the intelligence of a rock.

Brett

Those particular British pictures are questionable, although nothing is definite at this point. But from interviews with soldiers, it is quite obvious abuse did happen at the prison. Several US soldiers, while claiming they did not take part in the abuse, reported that they went to their superiors because they did not approve of the violence. I really can't believe people are denying this. It's like the denying that US soldiers torched Vietnamese villages all over again.

The Geneva Convention was founded on the premise that even militaries that don't follow the convention when it comes to torture and inhumane acts be treated in the way the convention allows for. Otherwise it would be pointless, you aren't likely to see two countries that subscribe to the convention in a war against each other anytime soon. You don't stop brutality with more brutality.

You can match fire with fire in the battlefield. The US can use all of its mighty power against weaker Iraqi forces and they have. The Geneva Convention comes into play when prisoners are taken and the enemy no longer has the ability to hurt you.

You may not agree with it, but it's essentially a law for allied nations. So to expect nations suddenly not to follow it or not to punish those who don't is unrealistic.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:13 am

Parker you seem like you believe that torturing and abusing prisoners is the policy of the US armed forces.

Do you? ...or are you saying something else and Im missing it......I am a wee bit slow sometimes.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:15 am

I'm certainly not saying such a thing. I have tried to stress that this abuse was done by a small minority of troops. But nevertheless, if left unpunished, it could grow to be a larger problem.

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Tue May 04, 2004 10:58 am

ProvoAnC wrote:You're exactly right, I don't care about the Geneva Convention. War isn't a goddamn soccer match. As anyone in any kind of military/protective service will tell you, you don't match your oppponents level of force, you exceed it and maintain control. If you want to fight fair, go play cricket. I have yet to be in a fair fight, and I still have yet to lose

My motto: if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin.

That's kind of harsh. I'd be really afraid to be arrested by you but I guess I could at least prepare myself mentally for a handcuffed beatdown.

I would always adhere to the Geneva Convention rules, out of a sense of morality no matter what the enemy is doing (obviously to a certain extent, and if you have the means to follow the Convention, which the US clearly does).

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:33 pm

Parker wrote:I'm certainly not saying such a thing. I have tried to stress that this abuse was done by a small minority of troops. But nevertheless, if left unpunished, it could grow to be a larger problem.

Thats cool....With that I agree 100%. I just dont buy it when jags like the troll who started this thread want to say that this is what we(USA) are about.
He should take a shower first.

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Wed May 05, 2004 1:05 am

The US are embarassing themselves now. Watch what happens when the Iraqis take prisoners now. They weren't very friendly before, but I'm sure they'll go out of their way to make things extra uncomfortable now.

America puts itself out to be the greatest bastion of democracy, peace, and unity and yet their doing this f***ed up s*** to their prisoners. If Iraq or any other country were doing this, they'd be screaming "Geneva Convention" at the top of their lungs. I seriously hope that the US gets punished for the type of things that they've been proven of doing lately. If we saw pictures of our soldiers (I'm Canadian, so kind of in the 'coalition') we'd be freaking the f*** out. But it's all good, because it's the Americans/British/whoever's not the 'enemy' that are doing it.

This s***'s really starting to sicken me.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed May 05, 2004 1:27 am

ProvoAnC wrote:You're exactly right, I don't care about the Geneva Convention. War isn't a goddamn soccer match. As anyone in any kind of military/protective service will tell you, you don't match your oppponents level of force, you exceed it and maintain control. If you want to fight fair, go play cricket. I have yet to be in a fair fight, and I still have yet to lose

My motto: if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin.

We're not at war with Iraq any longer. We're suppose to be liberating them, rebuilding their country, transforming them into a democracy so that they become a shining example for the other Muslims on the war on terror.

Anyways, it turns out the Pentagon knew of these abuses back in February so all these feigned expressions of shock and outrage and condemnations are to a certain extent fake.

Apparently, Rumsfeld sent General Myers to try to stop CBS from airing this prisoner abuse story. Some former generals like McCaffrey are upset that Rumsfeld sent a military guy instead of one of his civilian underlings to do the dirty work.