Madden 11

[JRod]

I'm just catching up on this news and I think the lack of updates to Franchise and Online franchise is complete s***. Now they are saying they want users input? WTF have they been getting for 3 years, I personally sent a message with at least 40 improvements.

I don't care what anyone says, someone made a conscious decision to make NCAA a better product this year because it has twice as many new additions as Madden.

What an utter and complete lackluster edition Madden 11 is going to be. I sure as s*** hope NCAA turns out to be as good as it sounds or else I won't have a football game to play this fall.

This has been the pattern for years. They seem to be a 2 year cycle with these games. Or at least it seems that one year it's all about Madden but NCAA gets shafted and the next year it's Madden.

[Danimal]

This has been the pattern for years. They seem to be a 2 year cycle with these games. Or at least it seems that one year it's all about Madden but NCAA gets shafted and the next year it's Madden.

Maybe you're right, I haven't liked NCAA in a while. But man it sure seems like it is getting all the love.

Also I can't see why anyone is clamoring for OTP is a Football game, did anyone actually play co-op mode last year? I know I didn't.

[tmdba37]

I agree with you Dan. . .Online Team Play smacks of an easy to fix/change low-hanging fruit tack-on. . .and for me I don't get it. . .it runs totally against the nature of being a Madden fan or an NFL fan in general. . .

I mean really, fans are not called "armchair fullbacks" for a reason. . .with the ever-increasing (and seemingly non-stop) interest in fantasy. . .being a fan nowadays means being in charge of a team or being that virtual video game team's QB/Coach/GM. . .

For me, Madden is all about Franchise (Off and Online) and I don't tend to trust the EA folks when they say that Online Franchise was a small % of M10 games played without the actual stats to back them up. . .

Online Team Play is simply going to be the lowest and least popular addition ever. . .when you think about this experience. . .there are a ton of games you'd rather play multi-player and nearly all of the other major sports games (except for baseball) really make an inherently better team experience than video game football does. . .

[wco81]

Actually, football is a team sport which requires more coordination with teammates than possibly any other team sport.

It may be that playing with other humans on your team, over the Internet, may make you less efficient at executing plays.

But if you pull it off, the feeling of accomplishment is greater. That is the case with OTP NHL and FIFA, with good teammates who know what each other are doing.

It won't be as popular as 1-on-1 online games of course, but unless it's completely unplayable, either due to the impossibility of getting smooth performance with up to 6 connections or because the control schemes are completely unworkable, it has a good chance of being more popular than online franchise because it's more pick-up-and-play whereas online franchise requires an extended time commitment.


It's good that they're giving achievements to all the players, so there's less of a chance that everyone wants to play QB. But they should track individual user stats to keep people interested in the mode. Knowing EA, I wouldn't count on it though.

[XXXIV]

I agree with you Dan. . .Online Team Play smacks of an easy to fix/change low-hanging fruit tack-on. . .and for me I don't get it. .

Agreed 100%....Its just EA bullshit meant to appease the weak minded dolts.

[tmdba37]

Actually, football is a team sport which requires more coordination with teammates than possibly any other team sport.

It may be that playing with other humans on your team, over the Internet, may make you less efficient at executing plays.
.

Right, I wasn't saying that real football is any less a team sport than the others as I would agree that you need 11 guys on the same page each down each second to make the gameplan work. . .rather, I was trying to say that generally the mindset of football fans and players of football video games doesn't jive with this team aspect. We want to be the lords and leaders of the team in the front office and on the field of battle. . .

At the end of the day, what I am questioning is why EA would put any resources at all in developing this for the game instead of using the time/effort/resources to improve other more popular aspects of the game or to even tighten up the gameplay in general. . .Madden 10 was solid but would the man hours spent messing with online team play be better spent tweaking the blocking or making the defensive recognition better?

As a fan of the series that's really what my larger point is that this to me is a huge misstep and as 34 eloquently put it, is total bs. . .compared to what I want to see worked on and developed/improved to make 11 better than 10. . .

[wco81]

The blocking and other aspects of the AI needs far more than just "tweaking."

They had problems for decades. EA doesn't fix them because they don't know how to make the game produce realistic stats and results without things like suction blocking, which is what creates many of the long runs or prevents too many sacks.


OTP is not a trivial effort. Well depends on how they implemented the controls but getting smooth play is not a given.

Fixes can't be marketed as easily as new features, especially when other EA Sports games have had OTP and other features for years before Madden.

Besides, they sell so many units a year that for a lot of people, there aren't that many problems to fix.

[Phototropic]

Last year we delivered Online Franchise and while it was received very well by community and press, the usage was among the lowest for any of our gameplay modes.

Translation: get ready for another half-assed OF with no salary system or CPU roster moves.

Sounds like offline franchise is getting a band-aid instead of the surgery it needs. It amazes me that a one-man game like Front Office Football can outperform a huge team like EA in this area.

They've only got themselves to blame. I've never seen the kind of excitement amongst my online friends as when Online Franchise was announced, and they systematically killed any chance of us playing it as time went on and feature after feature was listed as unavailable in this mode.

[GTHobbes]

Man, there was nothing at all impressive about Madden's showing during the EA press conference. Looked like M10 with gameflow and some additional cutscenes added. Maybe next year will be the year for Madden, like this year seems to be for NCAA.

[Danimal]

Man, there was nothing at all impressive about Madden's showing during the EA press conference. Looked like M10 with gameflow and some additional cutscenes added. Maybe next year will be the year for Madden, like this year seems to be for NCAA.

Totally agree, how on earth did NCAA get no love on the podium, it has everything madden has plus actual features!

Hell the most impressive thing about the EA Sports portion was EA Active 2.

[GTHobbes]

Man, there was nothing at all impressive about Madden's showing during the EA press conference. Looked like M10 with gameflow and some additional cutscenes added. Maybe next year will be the year for Madden, like this year seems to be for NCAA.

Totally agree, how on earth did NCAA get no love on the podium, it has everything madden has plus actual features!

Hell the most impressive thing about the EA Sports portion was EA Active 2.

Based on what I'm reading and seeing from videos, it looks like Madden is having a very disappointing showing at E3. (You know things are bad in Madden land when even Pasta Padre seems down on the game.) I'd love to have 30 minutes of Ian's and Phil Frazier's time to hear what the hell happened. There has to be a reason why their time was spent the way it was this year.

[Danimal]

This is pure speculation, but the late code lock into Beta and the fact that this dev team has been so quiet leads me to believe they had a feature set and couldn't get it done in time and are now spinning it.

I bet they planned on franchise this year and it is not even close to up to par, so they say it is going to take 2 years and they want fans input when in reality they are probably 60% done with it.

[GTHobbes]

This is pure speculation, but the late code lock into Beta and the fact that this dev team has been so quiet leads me to believe they had a feature set and couldn't get it done in time and are now spinning it.

I bet they planned on franchise this year and it is not even close to up to par, so they say it is going to take 2 years and they want fans input when in reality they are probably 60% done with it.

You could very well be right, Dan. Although, if that's the case with franchise, it sucks knowing the main guy they brought over to fix it (Josh Looman) spent soo much time on the money grab, Madden Ultimate Team (or whatever it's called).

I don't think M11 is going to be a bad game. Just nowhere near where it should be after 6 years on the 360/PS3. And with the new leadership team continuing to give us things nobody asked for (gameflow, 3 on 3, replays from very un-broadcast angles), it doesn't give me a lot of confidence moving forward.

[Danimal]

MUT generates revenue, they found a way to make this OTP bullshit generate revenue too by pretty much lifting the COD perks system and renaming it. Online Franchise generates no revenue, at least not yet.

I don't agree with any of it, but with the amount of micro-transaction bullshit going on at EA and other companies it's just going to keep getting worse. I think that's why last year the majority of my time was spent gaming on the PC.

[AJColossal]

(sorry wrong thread)

[Zeppo]

I just want to chime in on the OTP aspect. Scoop and I played at least one game of co-op last year, and we both absolutely loved it. There were a few negatives, though. One was that it was in the Superstar mode camera, which made quarterbacking very difficult. The other was that the same person had to call both offense and defense which really dampened the experience for the non-captain player (me).

Like WCO, I have always loved two-on-two videogame football. From the first moment of the multi-tap, I was playing 2v2 fotball non stop. The Dreamcast had 4 controller ports built in, so 2v2 in NFL 2K was a no-brainer and it was fantastic. One thing 2K did right was that they allowed anyone to call the play. Sure, that could lead to chaos if the teammates were incapable of communicating, but what it allowed us to do was have one man on offense call the plays and be the QB, and then the other player would call the plays on Defense. This is ideal in a football game and frankly very realistic. It is hard to overstate how much better it made the 2v2 experience as opposed to Madden. (Sometimes we would swap controllers in Madden but that proved too confusing as you'd then be playing the other guys' icon color, if that makes sense.) Playing online in the original 2K was tons of fun 2v2 as well. in fact, on many occasions myself and my friend would opt to do that rather than play head to head against each other.

Even three on three could work well. One guy as QB, one as the HB, and one as a receiver or TE. If it is fun at all to block (it can be) then being an HB who has to pick up the blitz isn't so bad, or being a TE on a running play can be rewarding. Running a route, finding open space, adjusting and making the catch, or (in the old days of Madden '95 or so) breaking downfield on the fly pattern and running under the ball can be huge fun on offense.

And of course, no one would disagree that playing with one or two human teammates on defense would be a lot of fun.

So why all the hate for OTP in a football game? I get it: everyone wants to be the king, the mastermind, the puppet master. Well, let me tell you guys who haven't played much OTP in FIFA or in NHL, it's not all a bed of roses in those games, either. Frustration with your teammates can mount very quickly, and it can be easy to think it would all be much more fun if you were just playing alone. But the payoffs of doing things well in an OTP environment far outweigh those frustrations. Sure, they are most likely fewer and farther between than the frustrating moments, but they feel so amazingly better than the frustrations feel bad that they win by a mile.

Not to mention the social aspect of being online with a group of people rather than just head to head.

I'm not confident Madden will allow separate offensive and defensive playcallers, but I sure hope they do, as this can make all the difference in a 2v2 game. And the fact that in football above all other sports games really makes inter-team communication a problem doesn't help the social aspect. But I for one am very much looking forward to playing at least some 2v2 if not 3v3 football if we can get groups together, and I'm happy the Madden team is finally giving us that feature.

So take that, all you 'who could possibly want this' naysayers!

[TCrouch]

I want it. The thing a lot of people aren't really talking about is the possibility to learn. If a guy is really good at calling plays on offense or defense, you can actually pick his brain during a game and see why something works how it does. Getting different opinions and strategies never hurts. I don't think it's the ripoff that everybody is claiming, but I never played ONE game of the online co-op in Madden 10. Never found anybody who wanted to

[ScoopBrady]

I agree with Zep. That mode was a lot of fun and I can't imagine how great it will be with 3 v 3 of all DSPers. I haven't read too much about Madden outside of the removal of the sprint button and the Gameflow stuff so forgive me for my ignorance but did they remove OF or is it just the fact that they aren't making any improvements on it?

[Brando70]

I agree with Zep. That mode was a lot of fun and I can't imagine how great it will be with 3 v 3 of all DSPers. I haven't read too much about Madden outside of the removal of the sprint button and the Gameflow stuff so forgive me for my ignorance but did they remove OF or is it just the fact that they aren't making any improvements on it?

I don't think Online Franchise is getting axed since the code is already there, but EA's qualification of it as being little used probably means there will be few if any changes, especially since offline franchise is really just getting some small tweaks to fix a few things like stats. I am sure that means we won't see any free agency fixes like salaries and CPU FA signings.

I started playing Front Office Football again last season, using the 2009 player file, and that game has made it impossible for me to enjoy Madden's franchise. I tend to enjoy the first season of play and then get bored by the idiotic and sterile CPU team management. I had hoped they were going to have more of the entertaining qualities from Head Coach but those were left by the wayside as well. So another year of bare bones Offline Franchise and assy Offline Franchise has me wondering if this game will be worth it.

The on-field action is certainly critical, but just like with Backbreaker, I need a little something, you know, for the effort. My days of playing a bunch of meaningless exhibitions in sports games ended around 1999.

[JRod]

I agree with Zep. That mode was a lot of fun and I can't imagine how great it will be with 3 v 3 of all DSPers. I haven't read too much about Madden outside of the removal of the sprint button and the Gameflow stuff so forgive me for my ignorance but did they remove OF or is it just the fact that they aren't making any improvements on it?

I don't think Online Franchise is getting axed since the code is already there, but EA's qualification of it as being little used probably means there will be few if any changes, especially since offline franchise is really just getting some small tweaks to fix a few things like stats. I am sure that means we won't see any free agency fixes like salaries and CPU FA signings.

I started playing Front Office Football again last season, using the 2009 player file, and that game has made it impossible for me to enjoy Madden's franchise. I tend to enjoy the first season of play and then get bored by the idiotic and sterile CPU team management. I had hoped they were going to have more of the entertaining qualities from Head Coach but those were left by the wayside as well. So another year of bare bones Offline Franchise and assy Offline Franchise has me wondering if this game will be worth it.

The on-field action is certainly critical, but just like with Backbreaker, I need a little something, you know, for the effort. My days of playing a bunch of meaningless exhibitions in sports games ended around 1999.

Know how you feel. That's why I stay with FM. It's meaningless when the franchise modes are pointless. I wouldn't care if it's overly simply but creates dynamic multi-year seasons and dynamic games. But I haven't found too many games that do that.

[Brando70]

The biggest problem with Madden's franchise is the draft is poorly done. Scouting players feels random, which makes it then feel like a waste of time, and there's no CPU movement during the draft. You basically put a premium on speed and watch the CPU draft players it doesn't need. When the draft is bad, the franchise for any football game will be bad.

My purchase is really going to depend on whether there's another DSP league next year. If they don't make any changes to the online franchise, I think it will be difficult to get another one going that will last longer than a season because the off-season options are so limiting. And even with what look like some decent on-field changes, it's hard to get excited about a football game where I may not play more than one season.

[vader29]

Some gameplay videos from E3:
http://www.thesportsgameguy.com/1-footb ... eos-day-2/

[GTHobbes]

I know there are guys on here who really like EA football, and I'll try to keep my negativity out of the Madden threads and my griping to a minimum this year. Some of the videos I've seen don't look too bad, so maybe they really are on the right track. But to anybody who suggests BB's devs don't know the game of football, I'd submit these two videos. The first, taken apparently from OS mods who were at E3, shows at least 5 things that I still hate about Tiburon's version of football (6, if you count in-game saves as apparently still being missing again this year):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJcWoiZGZQ

1. I hate the way the PR just warps 3-4 yards into position to field the punt.
2. The football still does not bounce (or come to a stop) anywhere near realistically when it hits the ground. (C'mon, EA!)
3. The obvious -- 4 guys from the KR team just bounce or fall off Reggie Bush. So much for Pro-Tak or whatever it's called being improved. Bottom line, we shouldn't need to use sliders to keep stuff like this from happening. It's a bad engine that needed to be replaced years ago.
4. Bush glides all the way down the field for a score, looking like his feet never hit the ground the whole way, with the KR team chasing him single-file style down the field (a pet peeve of mine about EA football games for 20+ years).

The worst part about it is, the guys from OS are hootin' and hollerin' so much that I guess these kinds of things are what a lot of people want to see in their football game. I've been playing BB online a lot and I've yet to see ANY of this kind've stuff happen. EA's been at this for 20 years -- I still think they can do better than that.

The second video does confirm that, yes, M11 appears to have finally surpassed the beloved (and 6 year old) 2k5 when it comes to the fake looking people hanging around outside the stadium before a game, etc., or what 2k used to be praised for in terms of presentation. I'll give EA some credit for that (but not too much when games like The Show and NBA2k have since upped the presentation bar by having their games mimic an actual TV broadcast).

But it's when the rollout-bomb and the Tebow trucking plays happen that the car falls off the wheels for me. Again, I hate to come across like I'm always selling BB or 2k football, but I never see this kind've stuff in those games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-67664A_oIA

[Brando70]

But it's when the rollout-bomb and the Tebow trucking plays happen that the car falls off the wheels for me. Again, I hate to come across like I'm always selling BB or 2k football, but I never see this kind've stuff in those games.

2k5 was a bomb-fest because the safeties were brain-dead. The passing was actually far worse in that game than 2k4, which I think was the superior game for single-player play.

I'll admit the trucking is ridiculous in both videos, but I've seen others where it looked pretty good, so it makes me wonder if this was on an easy difficulty. There's a video of Redskins-Cowboys over at OS that actually looked pretty good: McNabb overthrowing an open receiver, one-hopping a pass to the flat as he gets hit instead of the stupid duck animation, and much improved blocking. Having played a lot of M10 I can definitely see some gameplay improvements.

Despite that, I am underwhelmed with what I've seen from M11. I'm considering NCAA as a change of pace even though I prefer the NFL over NCAA. Backbreaker is too dumb for single player and NCAA's dynasty is way better than Madden's franchise mode.

[Danimal]

Again, I hate to come across like I'm always selling BB or 2k football, but I never see this kind've stuff in those games.

To be blunt you come across that way because of posts like these.

I'm not happy with Madden this year but you'll never be happy. Why even bother following these games, haven't you seen enough by now to know it's not your cup of tea? I know you can counter with the point you want a good NFL game so you keep hoping, but as you said it's 20 years of you not liking the game, I think it's safe to say it ain't gonna happen.

Go play Backbreaker and have fun. Why get worked up over EA football when you'll never like it? It would be like me following MLB2K games, I think they suck and thus I don't even follow them.

I'm with Brando the only reason I may but Madden is for our OF league, right now the only game I plan on buying is NCAA. It's not perfect but IMO it's the best football game this year.