OT: Lost is back!

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jondiehl
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Post by jondiehl »

I found it odd that the people who escaped the island (and likely had long and fulfilling lives after that) still went through the "Losties" purgatory, even though that was probably just a small segment of their entire life.

ie. Kate made it off with Sawyer in the boat, probably died as an old woman, but moves on with Jack and the people she met on the island and not perhaps her husband that she meets when getting back to civilization?

Same with Sawyer, he would have died an old man, but when he "re-awakened" at the vending machine, he was reunited with a love that died while he was in his 30's. Gosh, I hope that if I die and go through this, my wife of many many decades won't mind if I spend eternity with a fling from my 20's. :lol:
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Post by Slumberland »

Pretty thrilling, moving, and a little bit thought-provoking, I thought. Highlights:

-LAPIDUS!!!

-Sawyer/Juliet "awakening"

-Vincent laying down next to Jack. I don't know why but this killed me.

-I loved Ben's line to Hurley about finding a better way than Jacob's.
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Post by Danimal »

jondiehl wrote:I found it odd that the people who escaped the island (and likely had long and fulfilling lives after that) still went through the "Losties" purgatory, even though that was probably just a small segment of their entire life.

ie. Kate made it off with Sawyer in the boat, probably died as an old woman, but moves on with Jack and the people she met on the island and not perhaps her husband that she meets when getting back to civilization?

Same with Sawyer, he would have died an old man, but when he "re-awakened" at the vending machine, he was reunited with a love that died while he was in his 30's. Gosh, I hope that if I die and go through this, my wife of many many decades won't mind if I spend eternity with a fling from my 20's. :lol:
This is why the ending is open to interpretation. In your mind this is what happened to them, we have no idea really what happen to them. Perhaps Kate never got over Jack and she lived with Claire and helped her raise Aaron.
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Post by Danimal »

HipE wrote:Very emotional episode as well, I didn't realize how invested I was in many of these characters and storylines.
I agree with this 100%, I mean I have always liked this show but not been a fanatic about it. I found myself a little more the misty eyed a lot last night.

Really with the way TV is today there will never be another show like it, I miss it already.
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Post by Leadfoot5 »

Agree with everything that you have all said about the finale. I'm also surprised how emotionally invested I was in the characters. I really like how in the end the story is really about the individuals being lost before they even reached the island.
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Post by sportdan30 »

Haven't read a thing in this thread. Why? Because I'm on episode 18 of the very first season. So my question is this series worth investing the time in for all six seasons? I have to say I'm quite addicted to watching an episode or two a night on Netflix. The show thus far has been excellent and love the characters and story line! From what someone told me, seasons 3 and 4 are a little bit of downers.
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Post by Danimal »

sportdan30 wrote:Haven't read a thing in this thread. Why? Because I'm on episode 18 of the very first season. So my question is this series worth investing the time in for all six seasons? I have to say I'm quite addicted to watching an episode or two a night on Netflix. The show thus far has been excellent and love the characters and story line! From what someone told me, seasons 3 and 4 are a little bit of downers.
Yes it is in my opinion.

Now that it is over and the emotional effects still linger today (I'm actually sad that I won't see these people again) it's clear this show was and always had been about the characters. Somewhere along the way I had forgotten that and got wrapped up in solving mystery X and Y. It's only at the end, the final 2.5 hours that the shows writers made me realize why I loved this show, because of the people.
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Post by greggsand »

sportdan30 wrote:Haven't read a thing in this thread. Why? Because I'm on episode 18 of the very first season. So my question is this series worth investing the time in for all six seasons? I have to say I'm quite addicted to watching an episode or two a night on Netflix. The show thus far has been excellent and love the characters and story line! From what someone told me, seasons 3 and 4 are a little bit of downers.
I'd watch season 1, 2 skip 3&4 pick it up with 5. 3 & 4 were the "stalling years" per Carlton Cuse. Those were the years I almost bailed and, now in hindsight, were pretty much unless. Some of my friends watched 1&2 a couple of "season primers" and started again with year 5. If I was to ever watch it again, it's how I'd approach it.

And why was walt so important again?? lol...
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Post by ScoopBrady »

I disagree, I would watch the whole series. You'd miss 2 whole seasons of bonding with the characters and IMO Lost at its' worst is still better than most series at their best.

Count me in as another satisfied by the finale. I was the opposite of Danimal in that I watched because of the characters and never really cared why things were happening. It's also one of the reasons why I never got frustrated with the show because I just wanted to see the characters, the story was always secondary for me. I'm both sad and glad that the series is over. I will definitely miss the characters but I was ready to move on after the finale.
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Post by Slumberland »

Don't skip any! The first chunk of season 3 is a bit of a drag, but it gets going again, and season 4 includes 'The Constant', maybe the best episode of the entire series.
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Post by Danimal »

If you notice most of the Lost hate today is coming from people who didn't invest in the show and it's characters. When I see a comment like this:

"Glad I stopped watching Lost in season 2 because if I had watched the whole thing and that was the end I would kill someone"

So you stopped watching a character driven drama for 4 seasons and expected the finale to make it up to you?
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Post by webdanzer »

The paragraph I've found that most succinctly expresses my own opinion in this:

Perhaps it's true that the polar bears and hatches and four-toed statues and submarines wouldn't have added up to more than a one-season gizmo of a show without the grounding offered by the intimate personal journeys of the castaways. But, let's face it, "Lost" was not ultimately "all about the characters," as its creators and admirers often claimed, because the characters were not interesting enough to sustain a series by themselves, either. As pleasant as it was to see the gang achieving lives of ordinary happiness in this season's flash-sideways, we care about them because we've seen them go through so many bizarre ordeals. Would you really have wanted to watch a series in which the same people got their s*** together in the ordinary fashion? I didn't think so. "Lost" was not "Six Feet Under."

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/l ... nale_recap

...Or Deadwood, or Mad Men, or The Wire, or Breaking Bad, etc, etc, etc.

I love character-driven stories, and the reason I ultimately fell away from Lost was that these characters were fairly wooden, one-dimensional, and their 'growth' seemed to be dictated by how the writers wanted them to reveal (or continue to mask) the mysteries of the island.

In short, the plot focused on attention grabbing distractions that were ultimately there to be discarded (Shake the rattle for the baby, okay now blow the whistle, okay now play peek-a-boo) while the characters were at best more like cliches or archetypes than real humans governed by psychology, reason, emotion or sense. At worst, they were simple plot devices to keep the parade of distractions moving along.
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Post by Macca00 »

Just finished watching the finale and I loved it. Also agree with some of the other posters, I was a bit misty eyed at more than a few points. Great TV.
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Post by Brando70 »

Slumberland wrote:Don't skip any! The first chunk of season 3 is a bit of a drag, but it gets going again, and season 4 includes 'The Constant', maybe the best episode of the entire series.
Agreed. I actually stopped watching for a bit in season 3, but then watched the whole season when it came out on DVD. It really got good again in the second half and in my opinion didn't let up again.
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Post by Feanor »

webdanzer wrote:the characters were at best more like cliches or archetypes than real humans governed by psychology, reason, emotion or sense.
All the characters were like that? No, not even close.
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Post by wco81 »

I won't see the finale for another week or two.

But some of the reactions sound like the reaction to the Six Feet Under finale.

I've already expressed doubts about the arc of the series. The pilot shot out of the gate with hyper-real action. Things were literally flying all over the place and the characters were trying to gather their wits, after the ordeal they'd been through.

But they couldn't progress too fast through this survival action story (at least how it started out) so they did a lot of flashback episodes while letting the main story advance in drips and drabs.

The backstories had some entertainment value but lets be real about what they were. They were filler to, keep the show going, to fill up those DVD box sets. Another island survival story, the Pacific, didn't have to resort to hours and hours of backstories or gimmicks in those backstories showing links between the characters (which ultimately proved to be meaningless?). Yet the characters in the Pacific are very well-realized, without having to see their lives before or after the ordeal -- or in some alternate timeline.

And they wrapped the whole story in 10 episodes -- which may not be as lucrative as stretching out the show to 6-7 seasons.
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Post by jLp vAkEr0 »

Count my girl and I in as misty eyed last night.

We remembered how Lost was the reason why she invited me for the 1st time to her house (I had the complete 1st season on DVD).

When I met her we talked about what shows we liked and I told her how much I loved Lost.

After a couple of dates she told me more people had recommend it to her so we decided to have a Lost marathon @ her house. Awww memories... :lol:

Anyways, it was real emotional stuff.

I thought it was a very moving ending.

Great, great show even with all it's flaws. I'll miss it.
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Post by RallyMonkey »

Boy oh boy. Watched the finale last night and after much deliberation, it was perfect. I spent many years not only attempting to figure out what the hell was going on on the island, but learning to invest in the personalities of the characters within it. As many have said, i always knew these people "meant something" to me week after week, but this finale brought home what that really meant. From Locke, to Ben, to Jack, Sawyer, etc. step by step last night as they all had their awakenings and reconnected i found myself emotional. And as mentioned earlier, when Vincent laid down next to Jack i "lost" it. Could be that i own a lab that looks just like him and he's there in my time of need too...

I still have questions, i love how i will spend weeks trying to come to my own conclusions on what really happened over the last handful+ years, and i will miss my Tuesday night with the Losties. It was a great ride and i am VERY glad i stuck around to see it home.

P.S. I thought the pre-finale show was great because you could tell as you listened to the actors talk about the show that they knew they were part of something special. A bunch of no-names for the most part who came together to make great television.
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Post by Brando70 »

wco81 wrote:But they couldn't progress too fast through this survival action story (at least how it started out) so they did a lot of flashback episodes while letting the main story advance in drips and drabs.

The backstories had some entertainment value but lets be real about what they were. They were filler to, keep the show going, to fill up those DVD box sets. Another island survival story, the Pacific, didn't have to resort to hours and hours of backstories or gimmicks in those backstories showing links between the characters (which ultimately proved to be meaningless?). Yet the characters in the Pacific are very well-realized, without having to see their lives before or after the ordeal -- or in some alternate timeline.
I strongly disagree with you that the character stories were just "filler."

Before they decided to cap the series at six seasons, they certainly had to write the show without the benefit of a defined end point. Certainly some episodes were not as important, and I think there was a squishy point in Season 3 where they weren't sure what they were doing.

However, I agree with Danimal about the appeal of the show to me: I was drawn in by the story, but stayed for the characters. And Lost has had some of the best character development I have ever seen on television -- a real rarity for a high-concept program.

I can understand disappointment if people were watching Lost primarily for the island story. The series certainly left a lot of unanswered questions. At the same time, this show has been primarily character-driven since the second episode. That allowed the creators to pull off a skillful maneuver: making the resolution of all the mysteries irrelevant. Simply put, we don't know because the characters don't know. Some may see that as a cop-out, but I think most shows that try to wrap everything up neatly fail miserably at that (X-Files and the new Battlestar Galactica come to mind). Lost provided resolution that was character-driven, not plot-driven. I would have liked a few more answers, sure, but I think that finale worked really well.

As for comparing it to The Pacific, you may as well be comparing a short story to a novel. Of course there will be differences: format certainly plays a large role in the creative process. Lost the mini-series would be different than Lost the TV series. You may as well criticize M*A*S*H for stretching the Korean War out, too. :wink:
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Post by Danimal »

wco81 wrote:Yet the characters in the Pacific are very well-realized, without having to see their lives before or after the ordeal -- or in some alternate timeline
Um Bullshit.

Being a huge fan of Band of Brothers I ordered HBO just for the Pacific and I thought it was crap compared to BoB. Chartacers were well realized? No way, those were real people and you know by the end of the series I couldn't name more then one of them.

I really had no emotional tie to the guy who got sent home to do the whole hero thing, got married re-upped and got killed. When you can't make me feel an attachment to someone that brave (or stupid) then you haven't done your job as a story teller.
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Post by wco81 »

Pacific is based on several books and it takes place over 3-4 years, roughly the time frame of Lost? Well of course Lost went back a couple of hundred years for Black Rock in that one episode.

They delved into each character but dropped the thread on one or two, like Hurley hasn't been featured for awhile. "Special" Walt didn't figure into the show once he grew too old for the original timeline where the first couple of seasons spanned only a couple of months. Claire's baby was also suppose to be special before she left Sydney.

As they added more and more characters and plot arcs, it had a tacked-on feeling in real-time. Maybe it will feel more organic as you re-watch after seeing the whole. Or maybe the abrupt gear-shifts (in tone, style, plot and character integrity) will become more apparent.
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Post by Brando70 »

wco81 wrote:Pacific is based on several books and it takes place over 3-4 years, roughly the time frame of Lost? Well of course Lost went back a couple of hundred years for Black Rock in that one episode.
I still don't get your point. It's quite simple to take a creative approach where the narrative speeds up or slows down, either presenting a more sweeping story or focusing on more detail. Look at 24 and how it would focus on one day through a season.

Also, unless you have a definitive idea of how many episodes a show will last, all TV shows will have a somewhat open-ended feel. That is the nature of the medium. I do think it was a drawback for Lost at first, but I still think there was a sense of progress and not that much filler. Compare it to something like The X-Files, which drew its arcs out way too long. I think Lost managed to avoid the problems it had, as well as the awful Battlestar Galactica ending where they tried to wrap the series up into a tidy package and wound up ruining the entire thing.
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Post by wco81 »

HBO and the networks have different standards and expectations for season length.

HBO puts up high-profile "events" like a new season of a big show or miniseries like BoB to drive spikes in subscriptions, which goes up and down as new seasons premiers and then the seasons end.

On network TV, hits get 22 episodes a season. But the economics are that they don't make big money until they have like 100 shows in the can, for syndication reasons. Sales of DVD box sets have changed the economics a bit and Lost DVDs probably sell very well.

But all show producers try to stay on the air for about 5 seasons to be able to sell the shows to syndication, overseas markets, DVDs, etc.

So there's a potential conflict between plotting out a show in an organic way vs. the economic imperative to hit a certain number of episodes/seasons.

Breaking Bad is facing this issue. They're in their 3rd season, all critically-acclaimed, yet the show initially started out with the main character facing a terminal cancer diagnosis of a few months.. But after every season, it's in limbo as it doesn't draw enough ratings to guarantee automatic renewal. So the showrunner is publicly saying they want to lock in an end date, which is a gambit to try to get AMC to commit to at least the 4th season. It's a low-budget show so it's doubtful they're getting rich on the show but having one or two more seasons would improve the economics.
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Post by WillHunting »

I just started on Breaking Bad... I love this show.
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Post by webdanzer »

WillHunting wrote:I just started on Breaking Bad... I love this show.
Ditto! :D
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