wco81 wrote:Of course the media and some politicians are going to publicize Tillman's sacrifice.
But my question was, how did his death came to be known? The Pentagon isn't really publicizing the names of the deceased or the injured.
They wanted to preserve the privacy of the people involved.
Does his family want this to be known?
Everyone is noting that Tillman didn't want to be interviewed about his decision to enter the military. So you wonder how he would have felt about all the publicity his passing has gotten. And there will certainly be a lot more media attention to come.
The man was just killed and the only thing you seem concerned with are the political and media aspects of it. Could you show the fallen soldier a little respect and give a little mourning period?
[url=http://sites.google.com/site/bmdsooner/]My place for games![/url]
The Bush Administration isn't protecting the privacy of the families of the fallen by preventing pictures of the flag-draped caskets from being released. It's protecting its own ass.
Bush and his PR team know that shots of caskets of American soldiers will reduce morale and hurt Bush's poll ratings and re-election chances. That's what the Administration cares about, and if you believe anything else, you're naive as hell.
Oh, and Pat Tillman is an American hero. And he was a hero long before he was killed Thursday. He's not a martyr; he's a hero.
I would love for my son to have the same values as Tillman and hope he does.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
People are welcome to disagree with me. That's fine. But I'm not spitting on the man's grave at all. Just the opposite- I seem to be the only one who cares that he is actually dead. I would have been much happier seeing him stay put and play football on Sundays and then go on and retire and live his life. Instead, the general idea seems to be that he volunteered in combat and died and so it's tragic but somehow also a good thing because he died fighting for freedom or because he was protecting our country or because he made his own decision or what have you. It doesn't matter. Once you're dead, you're dead, and the reasons fall by the wayside.
I think people are confusing politics with philosophy. There's nothing politcal in what I'm saying. I'm sorry the man is dead, that's all. He didn't have to be.
>>>I seem to be the only one who cares that he is actually dead.<<<
Sean:
You're the only one who cares that Tillman is dead? I'm glad you're the judge and jury of grief and mourning. I feel blessed.
If anything, you should send an apology to JackDog immediately. Let's see: He has lost his brother, friends and his lower leg in the Iraq War. I think he's paid quite a price and, as a longtime Special Forces soldier before he was wounded last March, feels the loss of Tillman more deeply than most. Yet <i>you</i> are the only one who cares that Tillman is actually dead?
What balls. For some reason, the Carly Simon song "You're So Vain" is echoing through my head as I think about your statement above.
No surprise why.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
pk- Perhaps that was poorly worded of me. But I don't owe Jackdog a thing. If you've lost a brother and a leg and the most you've learned from the experience is to respond to another man's death with "Let's go Rangers" and thereby glorifying the thing that killed that man, then you need to keep losing limbs until you get it. Stupidity is still stupidity, no matter how well-intentioned, and life is too precioius a thing to be wasted on king or country.
Now Jackdog can dislike me or not, but no apologies are owed on either side.
I wasn't inferring that I wanted my son to become a soldier. But if he does, then I want him to be the best soldier he can.
I want my son to emulate Tillman's values of duty, devotion, honesty and putting what he sees as a just cause ahead of himself.
Of course every parent's nightmare is to outlive their kids. I think Mr. and Mrs. Tillman are living that nightmare now, and my deepest sympathies are with them. Losing a child at any age, for any reason, is horrible.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
>>>Stupidity is still stupidity, no matter how well-intentioned, and life is too precioius a thing to be wasted on king or country.<<<
Sean:
You write as if Tillman was drafted. The man gave up a rich life for a cause that he believed was just; he enlisted. It was his choice.
But since you don't believe it was just, you consider his service and death stupid. You just don't get the concept of military service. These guys and gals do what they're told; they're not the policy makers. If you have a problem with the policy, don't blame it on Pat Tillman or any of the other soldiers. Blame it on Bush. Blame it on Rumsfeld.
Can you honestly say you would give up a life that gave you a seven-figure salary and the worship of thousands for a job that paid $17,000 per year in crap conditions just for a cause you thought was right?
In other words, if you were a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, would you give it all up to teach eighth grade in the south Bronx or rural Appalachia?
That's the issue here. Not the politics of the Iraq War or the War on Terror.
And for you to suggest Jack needs to lose more limbs, I have four words for you, the final words I ever will type to you: Rot in hell, son.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
Jared wrote:
So just calm down and try and understand where the other side is coming from (and this goes to people on both sides of the issue) before turning this thread into a brawl.
Jared,
I'm so pissed at Sean right now for his comments. I can only remember being this angry one other time over at SR and we had plenty of heated arguments but it never got this personal. I think it would be a good time to lock this thread before it gets out of hand.
Jared wrote:
So just calm down and try and understand where the other side is coming from (and this goes to people on both sides of the issue) before turning this thread into a brawl.
Jared,
I'm so pissed at Sean right now for his comments. I can only remember being this angry one other time over at SR and we had plenty of heated arguments but it never got this personal. I think it would be a good time to lock this thread before it gets out of hand.
Leebo
I second that.
[url=http://sites.google.com/site/bmdsooner/]My place for games![/url]
"An American hero died in Afghanistan on Thursday, but what Pat Tillman was able to remind everyone back home was that, tragically, this isn't so unusual. They are dying every day."
seanmac you're a hater and it's obvious you dont understand the bond soldiers have.. if jackdog wants to be pissed then let him be , dont respond with some weak ass statement like you need to lose more limbs til you get it
where i come from you would lose a lot more than limbs for saying that kinda s*** to someone esp someone like jackdog who obviously is a take no s*** kinda guy
just a word of advice from fletch
Sorry. I was away from the computer for a couple of hours.
Sean, Jackdog's comments weren't limited to "Let's go Rangers". He said a lot more than that. You and others may not agree with it...but don't mischaracterize what he said.
Secondly, telling someone that they should "keep losing limbs until they get it" is just inciting a flame war. You (and lots of others here) may not agree with Jackdog's politics or views. But it is completely disrespectful to say something like that.
I think political discussion is great. I think debate is great. But comments like above are unacceptable. I'm locking the thread. People can open new threads discussing Tillman or Iraq/Afghanistan. However, please keep the topics separate. Let the mourners mourn peacefully and with respect.
If someone creates another Iraq/Afghanistan thread, that's completely fine. BUT NO PERSONAL ATTACKS.
I'll probably find some time soon to put up some sort of forum rules so that people understand things like this. Debate is great, until it devolves into base insults questioning people's patriotism or intelligence or what not.
If anyone has problems with this, post or PM me. I'll be more than happy to discuss it.
