OT: New Music?

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:46 pm

RobVarak wrote:
Spooky wrote:I compare all Wilco's efforts to 'A Ghost is Born' and nothing has come close to that from them before or since IMO.
Ah, you mean the "Wank-off" album. Being a fan of songs, it's not my favorite. LOL

The song that's supposed to emulate Jeff Tweedy's migraines gives me a headache.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:46 pm

RobVarak wrote:
Spooky wrote:I compare all Wilco's efforts to 'A Ghost is Born' and nothing has come close to that from them before or since IMO.
Ah, you mean the "Wank-off" album. Being a fan of songs, it's not my favorite. LOL

You mean the "vicodin" album? Tweedy was rocking a lot of pills during those sessions. Hence half of his vocals sounding like he was signing from his bed. That's not a criticism given I love that album for it's sheer 'darkness'!

Think Wilco (The Album) was nifty & I listened to it A LOT. I think in the scope of all of the Wilco albums, it's on the "lesser" side (but still better than 90% of what's out there).

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:33 pm

I know nothing about that Wilco album other than I really, really dig it. i guess it is it's dark nature that appeals to me.

What does "wank off album" mean? (serious question).

And I can truly see how that new Grizzly Bear doesn't appeal to everyone but something about it REALLY grabs me. Talk about a dark album. The music is very haunting to me. A great fall album.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:01 pm

It always struck me as a self-indulgent record, hence the wank-off reference. Too much noodling, aimless noise and pseudo-poetic lyrics for my ears. I have several friends who love it though, so you're not alone.

I actually think that lyrically speaking Summerteeth is their darkest album. The juxtaposition of the dark lyrics with the light psychedelia and Beach Boys sonic references is deceptive, and I think the contrast is what really elevates that record beyond the norm.

Much of my opinion of "Ghost" is certainly colored by the shows that I saw during that period. Tweedy spent half the concert doing a Miles Davis as he twiddled with his Macbook. Incredibly irritating. OTOH, the renaissance of their post-"Sky" live performances is all the more amazing in contrast to that era.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:03 pm

See...I really don't hear any of that when I listen to 'Ghost'. With the exception of 'Spiders'.

'Muzzle of Bees' and 'Handshake Drugs' are two songs that will always make me feel 'it'.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:09 pm

PK,
Can't believe you listed The XX.

I was just about to post something on them. Completely blown away the first time I heard them. Something fresh out of the indy scene which seems to be a lot of same-ol these days.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:33 pm

IMO, there are 2 issues with Wilco's Ghost Is Born:

1. Tweedy was trying to be off-putting and antagonistic on-purpose with many of Ghost's tracks. The problem was determining who it was directed at (labels. fans, "rock&roll"). It was a bit of head scratcher.

2. Tweedy became obsessed with (the band) Television and even took guitar lessons from Richard Lloyd. This lead to a lot of the "guitar noodling" on the album. The problem here was he didn't have the band to pull it off in the studio. IF he would have had Nels for the sessions, it would have been a totally different story. (def a different story when you hear those songs 'live' these days)

All in all, a fascinating album & the fact wilco fans are divided, makes it even more so... ok, I'll stop now.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:23 pm

Brando70 wrote:I did a couple best-ofs on my blog. First, my favorite songs of 2009:

"Ships With Holes Will Sink," We Were Promised Jetpacks
"The Mountain," Heartless Bastards
"Over It," Dinosaur Jr.
"1901," Phoenix
"Bear," The Antlers
"Anonanimal," Andrew Bird
"People Got a Lot of Nerve," Neko Case
"Blood Bank," Bon Iver
"Moth's Wings," Passion Pit
"Misery," Brendan Benson
"I and Love and You," The Avett Brothers
"Can't Hardly Wait," Justin Townes Earle
"Young Hearts Spark Fire," Japandroids

Links to all of the above plus assorted commentary at:
http://cjsd.blogspot.com/2009/12/friday ... -2009.html

I also did a post on my favorite songs of the 2000s:

"Where Have All the Rude Boys Gone," Ted Leo & Pharmacists
"Goddamned Lonely Love," Drive-By Truckers
"Ageless Beauty," Stars
"Mr. Brightside," The Killers
"Maps," Yeah Yeah Yeahs
"Hounds of Love," The Futureheads
"Been There All the Time," Dinosaur Jr.
"The Swish," The Hold Steady
"Far Away," Sleater-Kinney
"The Bleeding Heart Picture Show," The New Pornographers
"Skinny Love," Bon Iver
"Svefn-G-Englar," Sigur Ros
"Happy," The Wrens

Even more commentary and links to the tunes at:
http://cjsd.blogspot.com/2009/12/friday ... st-of.html

All in all, it was a pretty damn good decade to be a music fan.

You should cross-post that to Things White People Like.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:19 pm

RobVarak wrote: You should cross-post that to Things White People Like.

I embrace my musical Caucasianness.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:55 pm

Spooky wrote:I know nothing about that Wilco album other than I really, really dig it. i guess it is it's dark nature that appeals to me.

Same here. "Handshake Drugs" might be my favorite Wilco song of all time.

Bottom line: I'm glad Jeff Tweedy is clean and happy in his life. But I think he was more interesting musically when he was addicted to painkillers and fighting non-stop with the late Jay Bennett.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:54 pm

JRod wrote:PK,
Can't believe you listed The XX.

I was just about to post something on them. Completely blown away the first time I heard them. Something fresh out of the indy scene which seems to be a lot of same-ol these days.

Exactly, John. The first time I listened to the xx this year reminded me of my reaction the first time I heard Sigur Ros -- "Holy sh*t, this sounds like little or nothing I've ever heard before."

A couple of albums I forgot on my list:

"Potato Hole" -- Booker T. Jones
"Fever Ray" -- Fever Ray

Take care,
PK

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:39 pm

"1372 Overton Park" Lucero

Memphis boys and I know where that address is.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:07 am

Rolling Stone's #1 Album of the Year? U2's 'No Line on the Horizon'. Pretty much sums-up the state of RS...

edit: at least they made up for a lame #1 pick with Springsteen #2! lol.........

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:46 am

greggsand wrote:Rolling Stone's #1 Album of the Year? U2's 'No Line on the Horizon'. Pretty much sums-up the state of RS...

edit: atl east they made up for a lame #1 pick with Springsteen #2! lol.........

Seriously? I'm a vocal critic of the sometimes-"We're f*cking trendy and awesome because we say so and because we listen to music you can't comprehend" nature of Pitchfork, but man, that's pathetic by RS.

Take care,
PK

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:07 pm

pk500 wrote:
greggsand wrote:Rolling Stone's #1 Album of the Year? U2's 'No Line on the Horizon'. Pretty much sums-up the state of RS...

edit: atl east they made up for a lame #1 pick with Springsteen #2! lol.........
Seriously? I'm a vocal critic of the sometimes-"We're f*cking trendy and awesome because we say so and because we listen to music you can't comprehend" nature of Pitchfork, but man, that's pathetic by RS.

Take care,
PK

Agreed. Here's the whole list:

Rolling Stone Best of 2009

25 Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx, Pt. II
24 Monsters Of Folk - Monsters Of Folk
23 Levon Helm - Electric Dirt
22 Franz Ferdinand - Tonight: Franz Ferdinand
21 Grizzly Bear - Veckatimest
20 Yeah Yeah Yeahs - It's Blitz
19 Bat For Lashes - Two Suns
18 Bob Dylan - Together Through Life
17 Mos Def - The Ecstatic
16 Wilco - Wilco (The Album
15 Girls - Album
14 Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion
13 Drake - So Far Gone Mixtape
12 Mastodon - Crack The Skye
11 Pearl Jam - Backspacer
10 Sonic Youth - The Eternal
09 The xx - xx
08 The-Dream - Love Vs. Money
07 Neko Case - Middle Cyclone
06 Dirty Projectors - Bitte Orca
05 Green Day - 21st Century Breakdown
04 Jay-Z - The Blueprint 3
03 Phoenix - Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix
02 Bruce Springsteen - Working On A Dream
01 U2 - No Line ON The Horizon

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:45 pm

Three of the top five are ridiculous -- U2, Springsteen, Green Day. All albums of solid work, but very derivative from their own recent catalog. But among the top five of 2009?

That's comical.

Then again, all three of those albums strip-mine familiar, comfortable ground for each band/artist. Pretty much sums up Rolling Stone's editorial mojo and relevance, too.

Take care,
PK

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:16 pm

Forgot to mention Japandroids as another top album of this year!!!

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:28 pm

PK, I haven't heard any of those 3 albums so I can't argue with your take, but I'm curious what you have against bands sticking to what they do best. I got off the U2 train back when they veered off into leftfield with lemon and the whole fly thing. Other than the beatles, I can't think of any other bands who ditched their old style and went on to make something better. Anyways, just curious to hear your take.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:13 pm

GTHobbes wrote:PK, I haven't heard any of those 3 albums so I can't argue with your take, but I'm curious what you have against bands sticking to what they do best. I got off the U2 train back when they veered off into leftfield with lemon and the whole fly thing. Other than the beatles, I can't think of any other bands who ditched their old style and went on to make something better. Anyways, just curious to hear your take.

GT:

Appreciate your post.

How do bands know what they do best if they never experiment or evolve? Do you honestly want your favorite band to sound the same every album? Doesn't that get boring? It sure as hell does for me.

Even Bon Jovi, one of the most commercial, formulaic rock bands of the last 25 years, tried a borderline country album a couple of years ago. It sucked, but I give the band credit for trying.

No one is the same at 25 as they were at 18. No one is the same at 40 as they were at 30. I think rock bands should show the same kind of evolution, the same kind of growth, the same kind of experimentation.

To me, music is art. And one of the hallmarks of great art, not just commercially driven portraits or lithographs by those like Kinkade or Rockwell, is a willingness to experiment, to stretch boundaries.

I don't like bands that reinvent themselves every album. That shows a lack of focus or a lack of inner voice. But I also don't like bands that strip-mine the same sound for more than two or three consecutive albums.

U2 is a fine example of a band that has changed gears seemingly at just the right time until now. "Boy" and "October" were earnest and guitar-driven. Then there was the martial assault of "War." Then the band consciously went for more of an etheral sound with producers Lanois and Eno on "The Unforgettable Fire." Those were followed by the fascination with Americana with "The Joshua Tree" and "Rattle and Hum."

At that point, U2 was huge. But it almost was becoming too messianic and sanctimonious for its own good, and the band was splintering. Bono knew that, and the band reformed and went to Berlin right after the fall of the wall and made the sludgy, Euro-rhythm-driven masterpiece "Achtung Baby." The dance influence continued with "Zooropa," which I think was vastly underrated. But then it all came off the rails when U2 tried to mine that sound for a third straight record with "Pop."

The band took a break and returned with "All You Can't Leave Behind," which was a superb signal that this was a mature band that had indeed left its "Fly" and "Mephisto" Eurotrash stage behind and was comfortable with being middle-age rockers. But we pretty much got the same thing with "Atomic Bomb" and this year's "No Line on the Horizon."

Is it because U2 has been diverse enough and endured enough that it's running out of influences? Or has the band found a comfortable groove finally after age 50 that it doesn't want to leave?

Either way, U2 has been so good for so long that it's entitled to take any route it chooses. But that doesn't mean that I must find it interesting.

Moving from the specific to the general, I can't think of a significant, long-lasting rock band that didn't evolve or morph its sound in at least one significant way during its career. It's the hallmark of a great band testing its limits.

Take care,
PK

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:22 pm

U2 is unique in that not a lot bands stick around this long and continue to put out new records. U2 (as well as others like REM) have full right to make a "U2" album. My issue is when the album sounds more like a reason to book a tour than an attempt to make a good album. I'd place "No Horizon" in the former.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:26 pm

To take off of what PK has said, for me it's that RS and the general don't buy these albums because they are extraordinary displays or art such as some of U2's earlier work, but rather they are comfortable music for the artist and listener. It's not great music but great selling.

Much like how Madden has been a great selling game.

I wouldn't say that I'm on the fore-front of music finding artists or reading music blogs like a "hipster" but for me I want to be a little challenged by the music I listen to.

I think that's why The XX struck a cord with me. With it, one could fall into saying of this is some hipster goth sound. But the music is clean, edgy and different. Ya it's geared towards a younger crowd but the day I turn the radio dail to the classic hits stations is pretty much day I stop finding good new music.

But with U2, I think the only music they have left is this pop-rock. In their early work you can hear the problems in Ireland and their amazement towards America. Only bads that aren't comfortable and haven't made it can put out music like that. It's the pain of trying to be successful. Whereas the new music by a lot of artists is just comfortable because they lost the "artistic" quality of their music since they don't have to struggle anymore.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:55 pm

PK, thanks for the response. I guess we just have different tastes in that my favorite artists, Johnny Cash, Pearl Jam, John Mellencamp, Mark Lanegan, Nirvana, Soundgarden, KOL, have made different sounds but have never pulled a U2 or Radiohead and just went way out there. Even the bands I grew up listening to -- Black Sabbath, the Doors, Led Zep, CCR -- pretty much stuck to what they did best, even though not every song sounded the same.

I guess I just need to pick up the new u2 album because I actually liked the beautiful day cd -- which had some songs that rivaled B.A.D., In The Name Of Love, Sunday Bloody Sunday, etc. as among their best, IMO. Personally, I hope they never veer off into electronica land (or anything similar) ever again.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:56 am

GTHobbes wrote:Even the bands I grew up listening to -- Black Sabbath, the Doors, Led Zep, CCR -- pretty much stuck to what they did best, even though not every song sounded the same.

Of course they didn't change much. Some of those bands you listed were around 5-8 years. U2 has had 3 periods that long where they didn't change much (79-89, 90-99, and 2000 to present).

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:07 pm

Something completely different from the music being discussed here is Renee Olstead's 2009 release Skylark (reached #2 on the jazz charts). Pretty much a jazz vocals release. This girl has some pipes, and she's only 20. If you watched the CBS comedy Still Standing a few years ago, you'll remember her as the older daughter. Her first album came out when she was 14 or 15, and if you haven't heard her voice, you'll be blown away.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:57 am

PK, very nice write-up about U2 and I feel much the same way. Every album the recorded early on was a build up to Joshua Tree, and then they made a brilliant left turn with Achtung Baby and Zooropa (which I also agree is really underrated). Pop was their first serious misstep, but they corrected it immediately with the excellent All That You Can't Leave Behind.

The problem I have with U2 in the 2000s is that they've made a pair of very average records since then. Atomic Bomb has some good moments but was really uneven, and No Line on the Horizon is just a very unmemorable collection of songs. It's the first two-album stretch where I've found them boring. It's a shame because I've enjoyed their music and their live shows so much over the years.

I also grabbed The xx based on the raves here. Not quite as enamored as I think it starts to sound a bit the same after a while, but the first half is truly excellent.