NBA Live 10 vs NBA 2K10

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:18 pm

EZSnappin wrote:I'm sure I said this in short form on the Live impression thread, and at OS, and on other boards, but why not do it again? Here goes nothing...

I have played both games, though have not played 2K since the patch. I chose Live for the following reasons:

1. Control - I feel like I am more responsible for my success in Live than in 2K. I fell less like I am triggering animations and more like I am making the move, particularly with dribble options.

2. Arena Atmosphere. Turn off the play-by-play and soak up the feel of being there, with specific chants and reactive crowds. When things get tight in the 4th quarter it feels like the crowd is hanging on your every move, just waiting to explode.

3. Playsets. I'm a Celtics fan, and I can make the Celtics play as they should, with Sheed popping out, Ray coming off baseline screens and Garnett and Pierce doing damage from the foul line extended. If I get hot the cpu AI switches up the defense to take away what I've been working so well. I feel like the cpu AI makes adjustments at the half to stop my offense and increase their chances.

Not that there aren't downsides to Live - it isn't a perfect game by any means. I wish it was a smooth as 2K; the branching animations from one move to another can be very rough, and it can be frustrating when a defensive shuffle becomes a defensive slide. But greater control at the cost of fluidity is a trade-off I'm willing to make. I wish breaks were as good as in 2K - I do get a few but it is too easy to disrupt the cpu team's chances. The rebounding is leaps and bounds above last year, but still lags in comparison; same with the shot block animations.

My biggest issue with 2K is on the defensive end. I don't feel like good defensive teams play that way. The rotations are flat out bad; too often it seems that if you get by the first man you get an open shot. A team like the Celtics or Cavs really work to play angles and hustle to cover gaps and support the perimeter defender; I just didn't see it with my time with the game. Live isn't perfect in this regard, but I do feel like the help defenders are in place more often than not.

If I'm watching someone else play, I'd much rather watch 2K. More animations, more little touches and a presentation that is better in most regards. But I don't watch people, I play for myself, so I chose Live.

That's what I'm talking about! Thanks EZ. Great response.

I agree about Live being better for dribbling. I wish 2K had the freestyle stick! I haven't tried Live without play by play....I'll give that a go later. Good suggestion. What you said about the animations in Live kind of having rough transitions....that is what sometimes makes me feel "out of control" with Live. That and the faster pace with the "skating" action. I will try turning down Live's overall speed to see if that helps. Thanks again for the reply.....appreciate it.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:20 pm

But as he said, he said the same stuff in the OTHER threads!

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:23 pm

Danimal wrote:
I think you're missing the point. You're comparing Apples and Oranges. You start a thread like this and you say you want to hear opinions, but now you say it abut debating which game is better.

Why? Whats the point? You have a game you enjoy obviously so play it. If you're thread was I don't own one, what are the merits of each then you would have some ground to stand on.

But as you just said you want to debate which is better, for what purpose? What good is going to come of DB or someone else saying Live is better and you saying it's not and then arguing about it?

Because other people may point out things in either game that I haven't seen yet or realized. I agree....just saying "Live is better" is worthless and that was why I wanted to hear details. Many people have their mind's made up about certain things (religion, politics, movies etc.), but that doesn't mean its not still interesting to hear what other people think about the same things. Make sense?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:12 pm

It's funny you mention religion, politics and movies. 2 of the three are banned at DSP.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:28 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:It's funny you mention religion, politics and movies. 2 of the three are banned at DSP.

Maybe we should add "comparison threads" to the banned list?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:42 pm

JackB1 wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:It's funny you mention religion, politics and movies. 2 of the three are banned at DSP.
Maybe we should add "comparison threads" to the banned list?

Works for me...especially when you've got two dedicated threads that include comparisons. Good suggestion!

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:44 pm

anyone know how to get your players attributes to go up in NBA2k10 in association mode? I'm playing the PC version and no matter who I have coaching and how many drills I do, every player has decreasing attributes.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:04 pm

Guys lay off Jack. This is what sports is all about. If you don't want to debate which game is better then don't come in here. The thread title states it all. It isn't like DSP has 50+ different threads going on that we can't have a debate over Live 2010 vs. 2K10. If people don't want to discuss it then just let the thread drift aimlessly to the bottom of the DSP ocean. And why do you have to get all uppity when someone states a different opinion over yours?

FWIW I don't get anyone who can enjoy Live and anyone who thinks that it even comes close to 2K once again. I'll give you that 2K has become a bit stale and that although it does a better job at simulating pro-basketball it still isn't where it could possibly be. That being said there are lots of improvements this year (e.g. harder to drive to the hoop, posting up is more realistic, post play in general is more fun, the cpu actually misses shots, and all the real season stats are nice). I do like Live's DNA feature but besides that I think it is a horrendous game of basketball once again.

EZSnappin · Post by **EZSnappin** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:44 pm

macsomjrr wrote: I'll give you that 2K has become a bit stale and that although it does a better job at simulating pro-basketball...

It frankly does not do a better job of simulating pro basketball. I does a better job of simulating individual pro basketball players. Live does a much better job of simulating what an NBA team does - at least in the half court - both offensively and defensively. Basketball is a team game; though 2K does a wonderful job of separating the individual parts, it still fails to make them coalesce into a five-on-five instead of one-on-one game.

Sadly, both games fail at the strengths of the other. One day I hope both teams learn from the other and we get two complete NBA experiences.

Despite it's ugly, clunky problems I think Inside Drive 2004 is still the best NBA simulation I've ever played. It did a great job of differentiating individual players while still doing a good job of separating team styles, strengths and weaknesses. Gameplay wasn't that good, though not horrible for the time.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:08 pm

EZSnappin wrote:
macsomjrr wrote:
It frankly does not do a better job of simulating pro basketball. I does a better job of simulating individual pro basketball players. Live does a much better job of simulating what an NBA team does - at least in the half court - both offensively and defensively. Basketball is a team game; though 2K does a wonderful job of separating the individual parts, it still fails to make them coalesce into a five-on-five instead of one-on-one game.

Admittedly, I'm not much of a pro basketball fan, but I just don't understand this opinion when it comes to 2k10 (I took a few years off from the 2k franchise so whether it's valid about 2k9, for example, I couldn't say).

When I'm playing the My Player mode in 2k10, both the offense that I run, and the one run by the cpu, looks pretty much exactly like what I see whenever I do flip on an NBA game. Guys cycling the ball around, cutting to the basket, etc. After the patch, I know I've never played a more realistic game (dating back to the Atari/Intellivision/Odyssey2 days).

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:28 pm

EZSnappin wrote: It frankly does not do a better job of simulating pro basketball. I does a better job of simulating individual pro basketball players. Live does a much better job of simulating what an NBA team does - at least in the half court - both offensively and defensively. Basketball is a team game; though 2K does a wonderful job of separating the individual parts, it still fails to make them coalesce into a five-on-five instead of one-on-one game.

You are saying Live simulates better how a NBA team sets up in a half court offense and runs plays? I have to disagree. In Live there is a lot of the CPU's ballhandler dribbling in place or players bunching up and not spacing the floor at all. Also the way the players in Live "skate" across the floor really bugs me for some reason. The players in 2K seem like they have weight and are heavy, where the players in Live are "flitting" accross the court like Oksana Baul.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:30 pm

GTHobbes wrote: When I'm playing the My Player mode in 2k10, both the offense that I run, and the one run by the cpu, looks pretty much exactly like what I see whenever I do flip on an NBA game. Guys cycling the ball around, cutting to the basket, etc. After the patch, I know I've never played a more realistic game (dating back to the Atari/Intellivision/Odyssey2 days).

FWIW, I tried the "My Player" mode and it was too boring for my A.D.D.
Its much more fun controlling the entire team. Just waiting for a pass and running up and down the court guarding my opposing player was amusing for a while but got old fast. Funny, cause I really like this mode in NHL09, but in hoops, it didn't work for me.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:34 pm

macsomjrr wrote:Guys lay off Jack. This is what sports is all about. If you don't want to debate which game is better then don't come in here. The thread title states it all. It isn't like DSP has 50+ different threads going on that we can't have a debate over Live 2010 vs. 2K10. If people don't want to discuss it then just let the thread drift aimlessly to the bottom of the DSP ocean. And why do you have to get all uppity when someone states a different opinion over yours?

FWIW I don't get anyone who can enjoy Live and anyone who thinks that it even comes close to 2K once again. I'll give you that 2K has become a bit stale and that although it does a better job at simulating pro-basketball it still isn't where it could possibly be. That being said there are lots of improvements this year (e.g. harder to drive to the hoop, posting up is more realistic, post play in general is more fun, the cpu actually misses shots, and all the real season stats are nice). I do like Live's DNA feature but besides that I think it is a horrendous game of basketball once again.

Mac....I do appreciate your coming to my defense, but the problem was I waited too long and most guys gave their opions already in the separate threads for their games. Next time I will post this right way, so we have one thread for comparisons only and the others for individual impressions.

I do agree with most of what you say above, except the one thing that drives me crazy with 2K is the delay in shooting (using the stick) when in the post. The animation kicks in way too late and you can't tell when to release the shot stick. I might have to try shooting with the buttons instead to see if that makes things better.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:46 am

Weird things happening......I am starting to learn how to play Live and maybe liking it more now!

I stopped using turbo so much and started running plays every possesion and using a lot of pick and rolls. If you dont, they just stand around. The low post slowdown and the way you can't time the shot stick down low is really starting to be a game killer for me with 2K and I didn't have the patience for the Be a Pro mode. Sure Live has some quirks.....the wacky ball physics sometimes and the ball clipping and players "skating", but if they don't happen too often, its a fun game.

We as hoops fans are lucky to have 2 solid games to choose from this year! If 2K could get that slowdown fixed and the shotstick delay, I would reconsider. Both games have their issues and I guess it comes down to which one is a gamekiller for you personally.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:15 am

JackB1 wrote:Weird things happening......Sure Live has some quirks.....the wacky ball physics sometimes and the ball clipping and players "skating", but if they don't happen too often, its a fun game.

Yeah, a quirk I've been seeing is players magically running right thru eachother. It's no big deal since I've never seen it involving the guy with the ball, just with players away from the ball.

wabash97 · Post by **wabash97** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:37 am

Jack, because I haven't played more than one pre-patch rental of 2k10, I'm still interested in your take on the direct comparisons between the games, which I can't get in the separate threads, and which get a bit bickery at OS.

Specific issues:

player control in Live seems good to me most of the time, but I feel like there are so many contact animations, I'm often locked into position I don't want to be in because of proximity to other players. Worse, this really affects the way my defenders react in the paint. If the CPU feeds the ball low and I can't get my D "locked on" in an animation, I get blown by for a dunk. Can you compare?

Defensive rotations can be abysmal in Live. If I get beat by a step on the perimeter with someone like Gallinari, three or four times a game he's blowing through the paint and dunking two-handed while my defenders rotate into position late or sort of stand straight up, or jump wildly away from Gallinari. The other three times they come in late and foul, which is Ok (a little more realistic), but it seems I rarely, if ever get help. And I hit that "help" button and it doesn't seem to do a thing. Interested in comparisons to 2k10.

Well-documented, but the post game is pretty basic in Live, and I find it difficult to pass well out of the post, even with good post players. Similarly, I don't find the CPU makes enough of an effort to feed good post players. You said there's some slowdown in 2k10 in the post? I have a PS3, and I've heard it's not as bad, but I'm interested in how the post plays out in 2k10.

Last one, fastbreaks. They're pretty clunky in Live, especially on the CPU side. How are they in 2k10?

Thanks

icvu42 · Post by **icvu42** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:52 am

GTHobbes wrote:
After the patch, I know I've never played a more realistic game (dating back to the Atari/Intellivision/Odyssey2 days).

I had Odyssey2 basketball.....while fun...I don't think it could really be called basketball, not with the way the ball floated/bounced around the court.

Rick

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:13 pm

Well, I think they are both enjoyable, albeit they do play differently.

With regards to Live, I've finally gotten use to the animation that takes you in to a drive to the basket when you press the shoot button and holding turbo when around the free throw line.

I much prefer the right stick for my dribbling moves in Live. It just feels unnatural in 2K10 using the trigger buttons to pull off moves. I wish there was a way I could customize it for 2K10.

The dynamic commentary in 2K10 is just ridiculously awesome. Nothing comes close imo, not The Show, anything! It's flat out amazing and really immerses the player from the beginning of the game to the end. I dream one day that all sports games will one day have this level of broadcast. Not to mention the back and forth banter about players and the league in general is just so life like sounding.

I could see where both games can be viewed as a sim. Back door screens, pick and rolls, post ups, specific team playing styles, etc. are in both games. I think they are better represented in 2K10. Additionally, there are just so many more animations in 2K10. Everything just screams realism watching the players move and shoot. They each have their own styles. Live does as well, but you can tell they are a year or so behind given that 2K10 has been able to build upon the success each and every year.

Competitively speaking, Live 10 seems to play fairer. I still can't grasp the defense too well in 2K10. It just seems the CPU has an unfair advantage at times with the no look passes, players getting open under the basket, higher shoot percentages from three, etc. I was consistently losing by 15-20 points on Pro in 2K10 with very few tweaks to mid and three point range shooting CPU tweaks. Before entirely giving up on the series, I went ahead and inputted Pared's sliders over at OS. I'm not sure if it was a fluke, but that one game put me solely back in to 2K's corner. The game played out more fairly, and I felt as if I was able to dictate the pace a little better.

Live definitely feels more polished than NCAA Basketball, sad for me to say. The games are fun and frantic at times. The A.I. of the CPU does have me scratch my head at times. Big men shooting treys, stars not shooting enough, etc. puzzles me, but still the game plays quite well. And as stated above, having the ability of the right stick is really a bonus.

Still if I had to choose one b-ball game this year, it would definitely be 2K10. It just feels authentic, gives you the true NBA experience, and each game I play I experience new animations that make me say "wow". I feel like I'm at the arena and it's a true event. Live is definitely a very good game in it's own right, but I can see myself tiring of it after a few games once the broadcast and animations get repetitive.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:26 pm

Well said Dan. The commentary in 2K10 is off the charts and I thought the commentary in MLB2K9 was damn good, their Hoops game is even better. The Show has awesome commentary as well it's just that it now sounds old since it's been 4-5 years of the same commentary crew.

I like Live as it's a good pick up and play game with damn good commentary but I lean towards 2K10 as the definitive game. I do wish someone at 2K would change the controller scheme as it feels very awkward compared to Live. Funny cause it use to be that way up until NBA2K6.

wabash97 · Post by **wabash97** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:34 pm

thanks guys. great feedback.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:58 pm

sportdan30 wrote:I much prefer the right stick for my dribbling moves in Live. It just feels unnatural in 2K10 using the trigger buttons to pull off moves. I wish there was a way I could customize it for 2K10.

You do know that you can go to Alternate Controller Configuration (B I believe) and that puts the dribble moves to the Right Stick in 2k10...right?

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:02 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
sportdan30 wrote:I much prefer the right stick for my dribbling moves in Live. It just feels unnatural in 2K10 using the trigger buttons to pull off moves. I wish there was a way I could customize it for 2K10.
You do know that you can go to Alternate Controller Configuration (B I believe) and that puts the dribble moves to the Right Stick in 2k10...right?

You freakin' made my day! No, I didn't know that. I rented the game and haven't really messed with the configurations other than a few of the sliders.

By the way, I still prefer shooting with the buttons. For me at least, I don't necessarily find the timing to be that precise with the sticks. The best example is when I'm at the free throw line. Seemingly, I use the same motion and one is late, the next is Ok, and the next is perfect.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:07 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
sportdan30 wrote:I much prefer the right stick for my dribbling moves in Live. It just feels unnatural in 2K10 using the trigger buttons to pull off moves. I wish there was a way I could customize it for 2K10.
You do know that you can go to Alternate Controller Configuration (B I believe) and that puts the dribble moves to the Right Stick in 2k10...right?

Actually, I'm not sure that it does (I could be wrong though). I'm using Configuration B and it puts the dribble moves on the triangle and circle buttons (on the PS3). Not sure about Configuration C...maybe it's there and I overlooked it. I like using the right stick for the shot stick so I don't mind having the dribble moves mapped to triangle and circle.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:15 pm

How do they have it configured at default? Isn't it using the trigggers? Even using the triangle and circle buttons would be better than how it is currently set up.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:17 pm

I should correct myself about the shot stick. I do find I'm using it fairly effectively when posting up. But other than that, I don't find it as benefit, at least to me.