DSP Madden Online Franchise 360 Sign Up / Discussion

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:04 pm

Zeppo wrote:I suppose if in the future you would prefer not to have new rules discussed then I don't need to be part of the executive board.

Neither do I because as it stands there's 2 people in favor and 2 people opposed and if Terry leaves that's 2-1 opposed.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:08 pm

Come on, guys, we were doing so well. Let's not destroy a good league over some minor points.

As for releasing FAs, I support Ks and Ps not counting toward the FA release amount. We have a fairly lenient FA policy as it is in terms of teams being able to hold onto their highly rated players, and I think counting kickers toward the FA release allocation goes against the spirit of this: to have something like a salary cap. Kickers tend to be the lowest paid players in many cases, and making them part of the FA release would allow people to release 1-2 players for the FA pool, knowing they could easily pick up position players in the draft and sign new kickers using FA points. (Not at all accusing anyone of doing that, just pointing out the loophole).

With the draft, we're definitely going to have some people that can't make it or will have to use the PC. I'm fine being one of those as long as we have a night the majority of the owners can make.

Finally, let's just calm down a little bit. We had a very fun season and we have a set of rules that should make the offseason interesting. We've all known each other long enough to know no one is trying to screw anyone over. Given our first season doing this and the fact that EA has some annoying restrictions, we're naturally going to hit some bumps. We'll get through those this season and hopefully have a smoother time the next season.

GameSeven · Post by **GameSeven** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:13 pm

I don't have a kicker... of any sort... at all... they both retired...

</sad panda>

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:22 pm

I'm not abandoning the league Brando I am simply saying if someone thinks they can do better step up, otherwise shut up.

Also the board was put together to help me resolve disputes, not to vote on every rule. I don't need a vote for this I know why I made the FA draft and the moving of kickers is not in the spirit of what I was trying to accomplish.

If I really thought this was about the movement of kickers I would of said you can use a kicker but he only count as a 65+ guy no matter what his rating. But people would still complain about that because they are using the system to try and not release an 80+ position player.

Post by **Jared** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:27 pm

I'm fine with the new rule, as it makes sense if the whole idea is to stimulate player movement. And really people, we don't need to blow this up into something where people are getting all bent out of shape because of this. It's been a good league, and to have people getting pissed off over a new kicker rule is unnecessary.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:41 pm

Danimal wrote:I'm not abandoning the league Brando I am simply saying if someone thinks they can do better step up, otherwise shut up.

Also the board was put together to help me resolve disputes, not to vote on every rule. I don't need a vote for this I know why I made the FA draft and the moving of kickers is not in the spirit of what I was trying to accomplish.

If I really thought this was about the movement of kickers I would of said you can use a kicker but he only count as a 65+ guy no matter what his rating. But people would still complain about that because they are using the system to try and not release an 80+ position player.

So now I'm using the system? Nice Dan.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:19 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:]So now I'm using the system? Nice Dan.

You honestly don't see what I intended for this FA draft to do and why releasing a kicker is not in the spirit of what I was trying to create?

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:35 pm

Well apparently Terry has quit, I didn't take what he wrote here to mean he was quitting but the league site says he left the franchise.

It doesn't appear the roster moves he posted were made so if he has indeed left I wouldn't consider those players in the FA pool.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:49 pm

Danimal wrote:
ScoopBrady wrote:]So now I'm using the system? Nice Dan.
You honestly don't see what I intended for this FA draft to do and why releasing a kicker is not in the spirit of what I was trying to create?

No, I honestly don't see it that way and am shocked that everybody else besides Zeppo pretty much does. After struggling with my kicking situation with the Ravens for an entire season I deliberated long and hard about Vinatieri. The thing I kept coming back to was his age. I would take a 80+ rated younger kicker over an 80+ rated backup defensive tackle or linebacker any day of the week. Then again that comes off a season where every time I kicked off my opponent would start at the 35 yard line on average while I was usually around the 20-25. That's huge. I will say that I'm pretty pissed right now that everybody seems to think I'm "working the system" with my decision.

If this is too much drama for Terry I apologize but I think everybody is overlooking the value of a good kicker and casting aspersions about my character which I really don't appreciate. If anyone has a reason to leave the league right now it would be me so get your ass back in here Terry.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:11 pm

I can't get to my Xbox right now, but I don't remember there being very many free agent kickers rated above 65, if any, after Lowrey (I think it was) was taken. My kicker has a rating of 53. I was mildly hopeful that I could upgrade my kicker situation in the offseason, perhaps through the FA draft.

That's where I am coming from. I never wanted to make a big deal out of it, I just wanted to voice my opinion that I didn't believe the rule was necessary, because I didn't think many peope would be releasing their kickers, and because I was hopeful of upgrading my own in the event that an owner or two did.

This issue is honestly not much of a big deal to me at all, but I do think it's important that we as a league keep the discussion open on rules and practices. Not that every member should get a veto on any new rule, just that we feel free to discuss differing opinions about the rules we end up with.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:27 pm

Scoop -

I am not talking about you specifically but if we allow kickers it is going to get out of hand. Go to the web site and look at every teams roster.

Every team has a kicker that they could release as a 70+ player. almost half the teams have a player they could release as an 80+ player.

The Ravens kicker you hate was one of the worst rated in the league with a 59. Most everyone else is 70 or above. The Ravens Punter is an 85.

I'll use the Falcons as an example they have 16 position players rated 80 or above, both their kickers are also 80 or above. I'd rather force them to release an 80+ position player then a kicker.

I really don't know any other way to put it, I don't want the FA period to be about releasing kickers. In retrospect if I has examined the ratings more i would of made the release over values much higher as there are a lot more 80+ players then I thought. Don't even look at the Jets roster it will make you sick.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:42 pm

Zeppo wrote:I can't get to my Xbox right now, but I don't remember there being very many free agent kickers rated above 65, if any, after Lowrey (I think it was) was taken. My kicker has a rating of 53. I was mildly hopeful that I could upgrade my kicker situation in the offseason, perhaps through the FA draft.

You're correct there are only 3 FA kickers 65 or above and this draft class holds very few kickers.

Some teams are holding 2 kickers right now on their roster (cowboys, buccaneers), I assume they will drop these to clear roster space for rookies.

I still think it doesn't do justice to what i was trying to accomplish, but I see the point that if you don't have a good kicker it could be an issue.

But as Terry said overall isn't a good judge of kickers. Fort example your 51 rated overall kicker has the following:

86 KPW (Kick Power)
74 KAC (Kick Accuracy)

A FA 69 Ovr Kicker has:
85 KPW (Kick Power)
90 KAC (Kick Accuracy)

A FA 41 Overall has:
81 KPW (Kick Power)
80 KAC (Kick Accuracy)

The Colts Kicker:
85 KPW (Kick Power)
91 KAC (Kick Accuracy)

You tell me Zep is an 81 Overall kicker that much better then the 69 FA available? Is it worth allowing someone to release a kicker into the FA pool as opposed to a position player?

If you still think yes then we will agree to disagree but I don't know what else to say other then point out the numbers.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:21 pm

You can make numbers look any way you want them to. I'm sure you can do the same thing with a 81 rated linebacker and a 65 rated linebacker in key stats but that doesn't change the fact that as an overall player there is a difference.

If we're going to be strict about what positions we can and can't cut then why don't we just make everybody get rid of 2 starting players on each side of the ball over the age of 25 and 2 non starters? Looking at who has been dropped already I honestly think that Vinatieri is the best of the bunch and the rest is crap anyways.

And again, I want to reiterate that I don't appreciate getting called out for trying to work the system.

tmdba37 · Post by **tmdba37** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:48 pm

Dude, I think you just offended the entire Justin Gage Fan Club. . .

Per your suggestion, I released my starting strong side LB and one of my starting Wide Receivers. . .so as to not sully the real life Adam Vinatieri, who is a great kicker and has had a great career, the kicker in Madden in this players opinion isn't as important as either of these fine position players that some team will hopefully gladly make a new home. . .

Let's think of this issue a little differently, we all basically just got taken to the woodshed by Terry and the Raiders. . .how much merit do we/should we put in the ratings and how much can our skill over compensate for them? I think Terry is probably the best person to answer that, but outside of speed and some of the new wrinkles like some of the QB ratings (like throw on the run), my thought is that there isn't that much of a difference between an 80 and a 90 in most cases. . .

Finally, and I am being totally serious here, if you want a better kicker, make me an offer for Bironas. . .I'd gladly trade you him if we can drop this issue and move on to better and brigher things!

tmdba37 · Post by **tmdba37** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:49 pm

ScoopBrady wrote: . . .so get your ass back in here Terry.

Now this is totally something that we all should agree on, I don't think the league can be the same without it's defending Champion. . .

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:36 pm

tmdba37 wrote:
ScoopBrady wrote: . . .so get your ass back in here Terry.
Now this is totally something that we all should agree on, I don't think the league can be the same without it's defending Champion. . .

Yep...This will tarnish my upcoming Super Bowl victory.

eman · Post by **eman** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:43 pm

tmdba37 wrote:
ScoopBrady wrote: . . .so get your ass back in here Terry.
Now this is totally something that we all should agree on, I don't think the league can be the same without it's defending Champion. . .

No, it wouldn't be the same, but no one person can be bigger than the league or the league is doomed to fail. Furthermore, good members need to put their own agenda/desires aside occasionally and do for the good of the league - that includes accepting rules you may or may not agree with and accepting that not all members will agree with the rules.

Ultimately I feel for the commish - he's been very selfless to make the league go and I have a feeling a few people take that for granted. That's a shame.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:44 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:You can make numbers look any way you want them to. I'm sure you can do the same thing with a 81 rated linebacker and a 65 rated linebacker in key stats but that doesn't change the fact that as an overall player there is a difference.

Be my guest and do it, because a LB has a lot more key stats that play into what he can do then a kicker.

As for being called out, frankly if your offended then how do you think I feel when you say this is bullshit and this is run like f*** or to just say I made the numbers look how i wanted, like I am on some kind of personal crusade so you can't drop a kicker.

I'm done talking about this.

Everyone get their FA drops in by Friday.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:28 pm

For the record, I have two kickers and I am keeping both of them. Maybe I don't need a kick off specialist, but he kicks it 6-8 yards deep everytime. To me that is better than a 64 rated cb that rarely plays.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:33 pm

I now officially hate kickers

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:00 am

Just so you guys know, at this stage it has become very unlikely I will be able to make the draft tomorrow night. We went long at work (just got home now), so we'll start later tomorrow than we had planned. Just letting you know.

Post by **Jared** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:33 am

I think the draft is now next Tuesday....I think.

tmdba37 · Post by **tmdba37** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:37 am

I also believe that it has moved to next week. . .

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:43 am

Jared wrote:I think the draft is now next Tuesday....I think.

Oh wow! Well maybe I will be able to make it then, but actually I kind of doubt it. We'll see!

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:31 am

Yes it moved to next week.

Everyone has to this Friday to do their cuts, both post them and in game.