webdanzer wrote:This is one bizarre-ass incoherent crazy game. I've certainly never driven anything like it before. It's like the game is trying to be everything at once. Like, you're approaching a corner, and the best tactic in this game might be to slow on entry, nail the apex, and accelerate smoothly out... so you can line up a sweet crash into two opponents who you can send flipping into the side barriers. And you'll get points for all of it.
I think I like it, though.
"In trying to offer something for everyone, this jack-of-all-trades racing game is unlikely to completely satisfy anybody."
That's the thing that I like about Shift-it'll play to my moods. If I'm in a more sim-style racing mood, trying to nail the lines, clean passing, shaving fractions off my times, I can do that. If I want to go balls to the wall, fishtail around corners at stupid speeds, bump drafting, and all...I can do that.
Aquarius wrote:What a stupid quote by Gamespot. It satisfies me completely. In fact, it is one of the best racing games I have EVER played.
Not really when you think about it. Most racing games lock into one specific aspect of racing be it sim or arcade. When a game is all over the place trying to please everyone it starts to lack in areas that a certain group is looking for.
As a racing simmer who loves GTR, rFactor etc. I expect a refined physics model that leans heavily on the simulation side. If I go into NFS Shift and approach the game from that aspect and it does something I wasn't expecting then it becomes a turn off because I love racing sims. The same can be said for the arcade crowd.
I really wish EA would stop the all inclusive branding of the Need for Speed series. When I first played Need for Speed on the PC back in the 90's it was all about driving fast and outrunning the cops.
I'll still get NFS Shift down the road but i'm leaning more towards Forza 3 as the game doesn't hold back from targeting the sim crowd.
Rodster, your entire premise is based on the idea that there is a sim crowd on the consoles.
Race Pro is far from perfect, but it is a perfectly decent racing sim, and as the only game in town you'd think console sim fans would go for it, but the sales were atrocious. Gran Turismo and Forza put more emphasis on the cars themselves and collecting and customizing them than they do on the racing.
I think the problem with Shift right now isn't the game, but it's that certain video game reviewers and most of the teenie-bopper crowd presupposes how a game 'should' play. If a game has a solid, deep, and rewarding handling model, I don't see why it should have to fall neatly into two preordained genres (or essentially one genre if you want to sell on consoles).
All that said, I wouldn't mind NFS getting to its roots either. The original NFS on 3D0 was unbelievable in it's day, and I liked how the hot pursuit titles brought back the open road driving (even those were much more arcadey than the original).
Naples39 wrote:Rodster, your entire premise is based on the idea that there is a sim crowd on the consoles.
I think there is because titles such as Race Pro, Gran Turismo and Forza exist for that crowd. My view of Shift and it's based on both reviews and reaction is it tries to be a jack of all trades racer. I remember PK posting a link saying Shift was watering down it's roots from a sim racer to more of an arcade experience. It's now becoming evident there's a mix of both.
Don't get me wrong i'm not bad mouthing Shift as it seems like a racer I can enjoy and will eventually get but for $60 I can get the more sim experience with Forza 3.
Naples39 wrote: If a game has a solid, deep, and rewarding handling model, I don't see why it should have to fall neatly into two preordained genres (or essentially one genre if you want to sell on consoles).
I don't see that it has to fall neatly anywhere, but I think it's a unique take to assume that the guy who wants a deep handling model wants to be using it to flip other cars into the air or to fight to stay on the road againt a car Mad Max ramming him into oblivion. They are two tastes that don't usually go together in the same game, and I don't think it's a stretch to assume that guys who want drifting, door-slamming, cars as guardrails racing are the ones desiring such a handling model, and vice versa.
But who knows? It may just work. I think it's a fascinating experiment, and I'm liking how much the game is sticking with me so far.
Naples39 wrote: If a game has a solid, deep, and rewarding handling model, I don't see why it should have to fall neatly into two preordained genres (or essentially one genre if you want to sell on consoles).
I don't see that it has to fall neatly anywhere, but I think it's a unique take to assume that the guy who wants a deep handling model wants to be using it to flip other cars into the air or to fight to stay on the road againt a car Mad Max ramming him into oblivion. They are two tastes that don't usually go together in the same game, and I don't think it's a stretch to assume that guys who want drifting, door-slamming, cars as guardrails racing are the ones desiring such a handling model, and vice versa.
But who knows? It may just work. I think it's a fascinating experiment, and I'm liking how much the game is sticking with me so far.
Yeah, but my first point is that sales indicate that the number of those people on consoles are few and far between. True sim is pretty much dead on consoles. I've (begrudgingly) hit the point of 'learn to enjoy what is out there' or just buy a gaming PC.
Race Pro is far from perfect, but it is a perfectly decent racing sim, and as the only game in town you'd think console sim fans would go for it, but the sales were atrocious.
Not to beat a dead horse, but Race Pro selling atrociously likely has more to do with it's poor marketing, multiple missed release dates, completely unfinished feel, loads of bugs, boring as hell career mode, locked out cars and tracks, terribly buggy multiplayer, horrible steering control issues and lack of believable FF,questionable damage model, extremely late to the table and overpriced add on content, and very mediocre graphics for a next-gen console compared to its predessessors.
There may have been a decent racing sim in there somewhere, but it sure is hard to find. Fix all the things mentioned above and I have a feeling Race Pro would have sold much better, regardless of whether it had pure sim physics or not.
I tend to agree with those who say console gamers don't want racing sims. They also don't want realistic flight sims.
Those who are serious about racing and flight sims gravitate to the PC, where more realistic, detailed and accurate games are available. There's also a booming cottage industry in PC simming for peripherals, few of which are cheap.
I have a nice Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel for iRacing, courtesy of DChaps, a peripheral I enjoy very much. It blows away any console-only wheel I've ever tried (I've never tried the 360 wheel), yet it's considered low-end for PC simming.
The cheapest wheel-pedal combo for PC racing sims that is considered good is the Logitech G25, which has a $225-250 price tag. That's about the same price as an entry-level 360 or Wii console. I LUST after a G25, but it's not in the budget right now.
People play consoles because they're plug-and-play. They're easy. Pop in the platter and play. There are no hardware upgrades, patches come automatically, peripherals always work, etc. It's beer-and-pretzels gaming.
I think most console gamers like their games the same way. They want a challenge, but they put fun on a higher plain of importance than difficulty. PC simmers, on the other hand, often equate fun with difficulty. I know I do; it's one of the reasons why I LOVE iRacing.
I'm not demeaning console players at all. Hell, I was one for more than 20 years. But I tend to think that's the mindset of the two types of gamers.
So there is a spot for a relaxed sim with arcade qualities like Shift for consoles because it's what most console gamers want. PC simmers expect a sim from a console game will be disappointed.
There's nothing wrong with a game like Shift. The most fulfilling, long-lasting and arguably satisfying console racing games I ever played were Metropolis Street Racer on the Dreamcast and its first descendant, Project Gotham Racing on the Xbox.
I read an interview with a Shift producer this morning in which he said the team hoped to capture the MSR/PGR crowd and mojo with Shift. Seems like they have succeeded based on videos I've seen and reviews and player feedback I've read.
Take care,
PK
Last edited by pk500 on Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
dbdynsty25 wrote:I think PK just called us all stupid simpletons.
Well, you, maybe.
Seriously, I think those who take their gaming obsessions to PC's can be termed even bigger geeks in their genres of choice than those who play the same genres on consoles.
When it comes to racing sims, I crave realism. I lust for accuracy. I covet expensive peripherals. I desire difficulty. And sim racing it's the only gaming genre left about which I care even the slightest.
I'm a geek; you're gamers.
There is a difference.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
pk500 wrote:I have a nice Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel for iRacing, courtesy of DChaps, a peripheral I enjoy very much. It blows away any console-only wheel I've ever tried (I've never tried the 360 wheel), yet it's considered low-end for PC simming.
Wait...so Don gave you one too?
How many wheels have people given you? I know I sent you my DFP as well
pk500 wrote:I have a nice Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel for iRacing, courtesy of DChaps, a peripheral I enjoy very much. It blows away any console-only wheel I've ever tried (I've never tried the 360 wheel), yet it's considered low-end for PC simming.
Wait...so Don gave you one too?
How many wheels have people given you? I know I sent you my DFP as well
Yours went wacko on me after I ran over the USB plug. I reshaped and straightened out the plug, but it never worked right after that. I thought I told you that!
For the record: Piggy, Terry and Don have given me their old wheels. I bow humbly to the generosity of fellow DSPers. I'm a charity case, no doubt.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
pk500 wrote:
For the record: Piggy, Terry and Don have given me their old wheels. I bow humbly to the generosity of fellow DSPers. I'm a charity case, no doubt.
Take care,
PK
You can add Adam to the list as he was kind enough to send me an expansion for Grand Prix 3 and refused to accept payment. So beers are on ice if he ever makes it to Florida. Thanks m8
In a somewhat surprising move, EA has released the PC demo version of their recently-released Need for Speed Shift title today.
The demo is 1.1GB in size and lets players drive on the fictional London track and Spa Francorchamps. Cars include the Nissan GT-R, the BMW M3, a Lotus, a Dodge Viper as well as an unlockable Pagani Zonda.
Console users have to wait a little longer as EA has announced to release the Xbox 360 demo on October 2nd while the Playstation 3 version will be released a day earlier on October 1st.
I have been enjoying Shift but was having a hard time categorizing it as others have noted here. But I got to Tier 2 and got a chance to race at Spa. Now I know what the game actually is ... an Xbox Live public room trainer. One of my objectives to complete the race was to spin out four opponents. How can the developers even claim to be catering to the sim crowd when they specifically task you with spinning out opponents to win the race?!?
With that said, it has that same seat of your pants fun that I had with GRID.
mixdj1 wrote:Now I know what the game actually is ... an Xbox Live public room trainer. One of my objectives to complete the race was to spin out four opponents. How can the developers even claim to be catering to the sim crowd when they specifically task you with spinning out opponents to win the race?!?
To be fair, they DO penalize you for cutting corners. A Live trainer would have that as a goal as well:
'Eliminate 30% or more of the track by cutting corners...'
In a somewhat surprising move, EA has released the PC demo version of their recently-released Need for Speed Shift title today.
The demo is 1.1GB in size and lets players drive on the fictional London track and Spa Francorchamps. Cars include the Nissan GT-R, the BMW M3, a Lotus, a Dodge Viper as well as an unlockable Pagani Zonda.
Console users have to wait a little longer as EA has announced to release the Xbox 360 demo on October 2nd while the Playstation 3 version will be released a day earlier on October 1st.
