Yet another HDTV question

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:51 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
TheGamer wrote:There is a poster over on the AVSforums (Mr Bob) that is maintaining that component video is just as good as the HDMI. He is someone who calibrates and cleans sets.
The only problem is that you can't run 1080P off component...nor can you upscale DVDs to 720p or 1080i.

Huh? You can't upscale DVD's via component?

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:44 pm

EZSnappin wrote:
Considering that fsquid specifically is talking about his satellite signal than your point is moot. Also, there is a hack for an older Oppo DVD player to upscale with component cables were one so inclined.

Which would be relevant if DB was replying to Fsquid's post and not to something completley different. So I guess you'll have to look to start something with DB elsewhere.

EZSnappin · Post by **EZSnappin** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:50 am

BK - I wasn't starting something with DB, so please don't put motives behind my words. Unless you want to start something...

As he was following up on an answer to fsquids inquiry, I wanted to tie it back to the original point. DB clarified that it was intended as a general statement spinning off from the initial topic. It's all good.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:41 am

s***, I'm confused now. Will it make a fecking difference to my DISH network receiver if I go HDMI?

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:55 am

It won't make a difference on a satellite receiver, cable box, or other 1080i signal to switch to HDMI, other than the convenience of a single cable and the possibility of a TINY improvement in picture quality.

Upscaling DVD players CAN upscale over COMPONENT, but only up to 720p/1080i.

Upscaling to, or outputting at 1080P usually requires HDMI.

So, choose HDMI for convenience or for sources that output at 1080p (as long as you're connecting to a 1080p-capable TV).

End of story.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:09 am

Sport is right. I have used HDMI and component on my DirecTV receivers and you really can't tell the difference as long as you get decent component cables. You don't have to buy premium cables, just use something better than what comes with your receiver. I also find that the switching between different resolutions (if you keep your box on the Native Resolution setting) goes much faster with component cables. I'd only use HDMI on a satellite box if I wanted to have less cables and I had an available slot on my receiver.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:13 am

thank you, I'll wait then as my receiver doesn't support HDMI sadly.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:46 pm

It's possible in the future that premium channels like HBO could require HDMI for HD resolutions.

They might also use HDMI to enforce the prevention of archiving premium content to a Blu-Ray disc, for instance.

If we ever get Blu-Ray recorders like Japan already has, for instance.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:22 pm

wco81 wrote:It's possible in the future that premium channels like HBO could require HDMI for HD resolutions.

They might also use HDMI to enforce the prevention of archiving premium content to a Blu-Ray disc, for instance.

If we ever get Blu-Ray recorders like Japan already has, for instance.

Good luck to the first content provider or cable/satellite company to enforce the resolution-restriction to prevent analog-HD copies over component. It's a good 5 years before anyone will be stupid enough to risk alienating every component-connected owner with non-HD resolutions. It's nice for the MPAA to have that capability in case copies run rampant, but it's a long way out before they try to enforce it.

The fact is that there are too many other (even easier) ways to make HD copies for sharing over bit torrent. An HD card built into a PC is a good start. Either way, any restriction will be cracked, so it's just another step in the arms race.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:08 pm

Bad things went kablooey in my trusty Hitachi RPTV, so it looks like I may be stepping up to the plate for a new set. I'm looking for ideas and here are the factors that I'm dealing with:

51"+
Lots, I mean way too much ambient light in the room. Glare is a big issue.
This will also be my primary gaming TV.
I'm not looking for a bargain basement solution here, but I'm also not going to break the bank on this one either.

Any input either generally or about specific models that you guys may have is appreciated. This is a Code Blue, as I'm already climbing the walls with no main TV and 3 kids in the house

Thanks.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:17 pm

Still my favorite TV:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN52A630- ... B001CE7BSW

This model in particular has the anti-glare screen. It's fantastic. You can find it for cheaper on clearance at the big box stores nowdays for even less than that. Just be sure to get the 630, not the 650 (it's got a glossy screen like most samsungs).

I also love my 55" Vizio, but the Sammy is probably better all around. And for that price, it's awesome. Just read the reviews on Amazon...rarely do you see over 100 reviews and a 5 star average.

The LED TVs are still a little too expensive for my blood right now. Best Buy had a 46 for under 2gs last week, but still...too expensive.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:21 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Still my favorite TV:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN52A630- ... B001CE7BSW

This model in particular has the anti-glare screen. It's fantastic. You can find it for cheaper on clearance at the big box stores nowdays for even less than that. Just be sure to get the 630, not the 650 (it's got a glossy screen like most samsungs).

I also love my 55" Vizio, but the Sammy is probably better all around. And for that price, it's awesome. Just read the reviews on Amazon...rarely do you see over 100 reviews and a 5 star average.

The LED TVs are still a little too expensive for my blood right now. Best Buy had a 46 for under 2gs last week, but still...too expensive.

Attaboy, DB! I knew you'd step up for me.

Anyone else with an opinion?

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:54 pm

Plasmas will more approximate the black levels of that RPTV than LCD.

Motion resolution is also an advantage for plasma. LCDs try to compensate with 120 and 240 Hz refresh rates.

http://www.hdguru.com/will-you-see-all- ... usive/287/

I haven't followed the newest models but apparently Panasonic are hyping 600 Hz refresh rates to produce full 1080p motion resolution in some of their 2009 models:

http://hdguru.com/ces-2009-panasonics-n ... eries/354/

Yeah I'd stay under $2k, because we should know within the next 5 years whether big-screen OLEDs are for real or not.

TheGamer2 · Post by **TheGamer2** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:16 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-HL67A750- ... 78&sr=1-18

This is my set. In January I bought it at Fry's for $1899 and received a $200 NFshop.com gift certificate. Samsung discontinued the model and now every retailer is jacking up the price. LED DLP, no bulb to worry about. I know this is too high, but if you can find it cheaper, it is worth it.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:27 am

Interesting. Spent a couple hours hacking my way through AV nerd-speak like it was particularly tenacious kudzu. And the end result is that I'm little closer to an answer.

db's suggestion is widely supported, both by the favorable Amazon reviews and the nerds at large. I would like to move up a bit more from the 51" I've got now though. Still probably the leading contender.

My initial take was that the consensus was that plasmas would be a disaster in a setup like mine with windows direcly across from the set. But further research seems to indicate that while that remains conventional widsom, there are many people out there saying that matte-screened plasmas or some of those with anti-glare would be fine. None, apparently, as bad as the RPTV I've been living with anyway.

This is of interest to me because in addition to the glare I've got to deal with some pretty crappy viewing angles...which again mitigate in favor of the plasmas.

Got to sleep on this one and see if some rest can provide clarity.

Incidentally, I'm pretty stunned at the proliferation of nonsensical internet widgets and the like through these TV's. Virtually every set is going to be connected to a STB of some sort which offers much of this crap already, is it not? Interesting development, though.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:40 am

In August, I bought a 50" Panasonic V10 plasma for my man cave:

http://www.abt.com/product/40703/Panaso ... .html#tab2

I have an east facing window to the right of the set. Straight on from the couch during the day, if I have something bright (sports, playing Madden), the reflection is not bad. However, if I am at my desk, which is to the left of the TV, and it's sunny, the screen is pretty reflective. Not unwatchable, but noticeable.

Having just gone through this process for six months, starting with leaning toward LCD, going back to plasma, being tempted by "LED", then going back to plasma for good, my recommendations:

--First, take a flashlight with you to the store and shine it on the TVs you're considering. Sounds stupid, but it will give you the best idea of the reflection. There is no LCD vs Plasma consensus, it really varies by set.

Plasma
+Still unbeatable for movies and the main reason I went back to plasma again. Blu Ray and HD movies from DirecTV look incredible on this set, and DVDs look quite nice as well.

+Great for sports. No motion issues to deal with.

+Games look fantastic. No lag, great color representation, incredible blacks for dark games.

-Burn-in is really not an issue any more, but you will see some ghosting from games like Madden, especially the first few hundred hours with the set. Now, I have only seen things like a shadow of the Madden score bar when it's dark and the set is on but has no signal going to it. It goes away, but it's annoying. A consideration for gaming.

-You should break the set in for 100-150 hours. This means running full screen content, avoiding stations with static logos for extended periods of time, and watching movies zoomed in to avoid the black bars (if they're 2:35 aspect ratio and don't fill the screen).

-You have to watch 4:3 standard def content in full screen mode (stretched). Not a good idea to watch a lot of 4:3 content on plasma with the black bars on the side.

LCD
+Plug n play. No break-in, no worries, no nothin'. Plug it in and go nuts.

+Very bright whites. Great for a bright room because even if the set is reflective, the brightness is still good.

+Good for gaming. The high-end sets should not have any lag, which was the biggest issue with gaming on LCD. The brightness and fact that they have no image retention also helps.

-Not nearly as good for movies as plasma. LCDs look good, but no amount of image processing can match what you get with movies on plasma, especially with a set that can handle 24p processing from Blu Rays.

-Fast motion is good, but again not quite the same league as plasma. I find LCDs are just not quite as smooth as plasma on fast cuts. I still think plasma has a small edge for sports because of this.

-Black levels not as dark. An issue if you watch stuff in a dark room (which I do when watching movies). Blacks still tend to be like really dark gray instead of black.

--Avoid LED. It's just LCD with an LED light around the edge to help trick your eye into thinking the black levels are darker than they are. Not worth the extra money.

That's my info dump. Good luck, Rob, and have fun shopping. Also, I bought my set online from Abt, which is in Glenview. Highly recommend them.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:54 am

Thanks, Brando. The flashlight idea ran through my head (probably about 2:00am last night when I was getting delirious), so I'm glad I'm not totally nuts.

Lots of excellent points. I appreciate it, particularly because I'm not taking 6 weeks with this decision...which I would prefer.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:14 am

RobVarak wrote:Thanks, Brando. The flashlight idea ran through my head (probably about 2:00am last night when I was getting delirious), so I'm glad I'm not totally nuts.

Lots of excellent points. I appreciate it, particularly because I'm not taking 6 weeks with this decision...which I would prefer.

That can also be a double-edged sword. AVS is a great resource but also can be a place of unspeakable electronics madness. The more time you have to research, the more time you have to drive yourself crazy.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:23 am

I like your advice about LED TVs since I just bought a $600 non-LED LCD screen.

Leadfoot5 · Post by **Leadfoot5** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:53 pm

Finally pulled the trigger on my first 1080p HDTV this weekend. Ended up taking advantage of another great Costco deal, and got a great set at a great price. Samsung LN46B610 for $1199. I was planning on getting the 650 series from Samsung, but I couldn't pass up the great price on the 610. The 610 also has a matte screen (vs. glossy on the 650) which will work much better in my brightly lit family room. Yeah, I really wanted one of the super slim LED LCD's, but it would have been kind of stupid since the TV is placed into a built in recess and the thin-ness would never be noticed.

So far so good. All the gaming systems look great, and Bluray is awesome as well.

GameSeven · Post by **GameSeven** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:31 pm

TheGamer2 wrote:http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-HL67A750- ... 78&sr=1-18

This is my set. In January I bought it at Fry's for $1899 and received a $200 NFshop.com gift certificate. Samsung discontinued the model and now every retailer is jacking up the price. LED DLP, no bulb to worry about. I know this is too high, but if you can find it cheaper, it is worth it.

I got in on 6th Ave's last shipment of these sets and love it. Kind of keeping my fingers crossed as they are a discontinued technology, but I couldn't beat the price to size value in a fixed pixel display.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:47 pm

Leadfoot5 wrote:Finally pulled the trigger on my first 1080p HDTV this weekend. Ended up taking advantage of another great Costco deal, and got a great set at a great price. Samsung LN46B610 for $1199. I was planning on getting the 650 series from Samsung, but I couldn't pass up the great price on the 610. The 610 also has a matte screen (vs. glossy on the 650) which will work much better in my brightly lit family room. Yeah, I really wanted one of the super slim LED LCD's, but it would have been kind of stupid since the TV is placed into a built in recess and the thin-ness would never be noticed.

So far so good. All the gaming systems look great, and Bluray is awesome as well.

I bought the LN40B610 this weekend from BJs. They had an instant rebate of $200 so I only paid $900.

Are you using the Game Mode for playing games? I used it to play some Wipeout HD on my PS3 last night and everything looked very nice. I'm using Movie Mode for watching TV since I read that's the only mode with no auto-dimming.

I took my LG 37LH20 back to Best Buy because of audio lag issues when watching TV that appear to be systemic to LG sets going by this thread, and other complaints I've read online.

http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/TV-Home-Th ... td-p/44561

Leadfoot5 · Post by **Leadfoot5** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:05 pm

Feanor wrote: I bought the LN40B610 this weekend from BJs. They had an instant rebate of $200 so I only paid $900.

Are you using the Game Mode for playing games? I used it to play some Wipeout HD on my PS3 last night and everything looked very nice. I'm using Movie Mode for watching TV since I read that's the only mode with no auto-dimming.

Yeah, I'm using game mode for my component input (360,WII). Played some Dirt 2 last night and it looked great. For the PS3, I have it connected via HDMI, and for the moment I have it set to Movie since I was testing some movies. Not sure if I'll change it to game mode when playing games or not...

One thing that I love about this set is how good the color settings are out of the box. For years I have tweaked the HDTV settings from the Movie setting. For TV on this set, I am using the "Natural" setting and I love the picture. Not seeing any "auto-dimming" problems, but then again I'm not looking for it.

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:25 pm

I have been eyeing the Panasonic G10 Plasma.... they are really affordable now (the 50" model is around $1200 or so online). Super nice picture and really don't have burnin problems like before.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:05 pm

I still enjoy my 60hz Xbr Bravia and I will be taking the plunge for a bigger screen next year. For sure it'll be 120hz model and depending if the price comes down enough, 240hz model. I'll be aiming between Sony and Samsung. Does anyone know which HDTV has PIP capabilities?