Madden 10 - Will they prove us wrong?

HipE · Post by **HipE** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:28 am

Speaking of smart AI clock management/playcalling, I had a game earlier in my season where I was up by 10 with under a minute left. When I forced a 4th down with the CPU driving inside my 20, the CPU actually kicked a fg to cut the lead to 7, then attempted an onside kick. Now if only real life NFL coaches could get that one right once in awhile...

Also, like XXXIV posted earlier, I was awarded a safety when the CPU was called for holding backed up in their own endzone. That was definitely cool to see that called correctly.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:47 am

The more I read results and look at these, I don't know if I want what Bill's proposing this year. Human pass rushing to 100? Sean Ellis is already leading the league in sacks. And the speed of the action seems pretty real to me on slow.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 am

I suck. This game is hard. LOL

GameSeven · Post by **GameSeven** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:47 am

10spro wrote:Had my first game going into OT on All Pro, as WAS and MIA played a tight 10-10 game and with 2 seconds to go, the Redskins get the apparent FG winner until they get called for holding and the match goes into OT. Portis was a beast while Cambell's passing skills were tested often.

Funny, my first game that is exactly what happened to my Giants against the Skins. Same score and everything. At first, I felt cheated thinking that a game could not end on an accepted penalty, but then I saw a similar concern on OS and was reminded that this does not hold for an offensive penalty.

Luckily I won on the ensuing drive in OT.

Lesson learned. Don't let the clock run down to zero on a game-winning kick attempt, especially with the odd Holding bug on FG/PATs.

Speaking of this bug, my demo impressions included concern when three consecutive Holdings were called on the same PAT try. I really hope they can fix this blemish on an otherwise great game.

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:48 am

Madden 10 is an improvement from last years Madden and moving in the right direction. I just cannot overlook the blocking logic and passes to the flats though. The Madden faithful finally have a game that is on par or better than last generation and is pretty solid overall. I am happy more people are enjoying the game this year. That is the whole point.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:59 am

I Looked at the flat thing some yesterday and I do see concern...Though at this point I think the main problem is that the AI blitzes far too much leaving the backs uncovered...Can you turn down the Buddy Ryan?

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:34 am

HipE wrote:Also, to take care of getting more carries for your backup rb, there are sub out/sub in sliders specific to each position. The default settings for each are 60/80, so if you up each of those a bit you see quite a few more carries for your backup.

EDIT: I should also add that under the coach settings, there is a slider for RB1-RB2, so you could move that towards RB2 more if you want a true two rb platoon, rather than just subbing out a tired RB1.

Hip, can we adjust the coach settings for the AI? That's what I'm concerned about. I hate when I'm playing a CPU team in franchise and they don't use their RBs the way a real team would.

I have to play around in franchise a bit and see if I can tweak this.

Post by **Jared** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:40 am

I tried Bill Harris' sliders. I do like the realistic game speed, but I seem to be sacrificing some player control when I do that. Maybe I'm losing the ability to make really quick decisions in tight spaces. But I think it's a great idea, and I moved the game speed up from slow to normal.

I'm really enjoying the game. After the 1st game and a half of my franchise w/the Dolphins, I thought the CPU run game was too weak. Then they brought in Jonathan Stewart, and he rushed for about 200 yards in about a half; including a run outside with seconds left to tie the game where he ran through my cornerback. In overtime, all I did was focus on stopping him...fortunately, McCown couldn't cope with blitzes, and I won in OT. Games are really, really fun.

Though I am concerned about the AI blitzing. Whenever they blitz, the RB and/or TE are usually wide open. Maybe the slow game speed is giving me enough time to make that read, and that's why it seems easier?

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:56 am

Jared wrote:I tried Bill Harris' sliders. I do like the realistic game speed, but I seem to be sacrificing some player control when I do that. Maybe I'm losing the ability to make really quick decisions in tight spaces. But I think it's a great idea, and I moved the game speed up from slow to normal.

I'm really enjoying the game. After the 1st game and a half of my franchise w/the Dolphins, I thought the CPU run game was too weak. Then they brought in Jonathan Stewart, and he rushed for about 200 yards in about a half; including a run outside with seconds left to tie the game where he ran through my cornerback. In overtime, all I did was focus on stopping him...fortunately, McCown couldn't cope with blitzes, and I won in OT. Games are really, really fun.

Though I am concerned about the AI blitzing. Whenever they blitz, the RB and/or TE are usually wide open. Maybe the slow game speed is giving me enough time to make that read, and that's why it seems easier?

I'm finding it hard enough controlling the linebackers on slow speed LOL! On Bill's speed setting it was just fast enough for me to move my linebacker completely out of the play - and by completely I mean more than 10 yards! I think that fast mode might be better from a user control standpoint.

Best wishes,

Doug

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:02 pm

Looking forward to all out blitzing Favre and the Vikings and cutting his season short in my franchise!

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:19 pm

Isn't a pass to the flats one of the highest percentage pass plays there is? I don't think there's a problem with the flats at all. It's not like you are guaranteed yardage. I've had plenty of passes to the flats stopped for no gain or a loss of yardage. I've also been rushed where I can't even get the pass off in time. This is on All Pro difficulty.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:23 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:Isn't a pass to the flats one of the highest percentage pass plays there is? I don't think there's a problem with the flats at all. It's not like you are guaranteed yardage. I've had plenty of passes to the flats stopped for no gain or a loss of yardage. I've also been rushed where I can't even get the pass off in time. This is on All Pro difficulty.

Completely agree. From my experiences, it's been 50/50 on whether I pick up more than a few yards.

Post by **Jared** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:32 pm

I think the problem is that whenever they blitz, the pass to the flats is almost always open. I just check to the RB, and it's an easy way to gain a few yards instead of getting sacked. If they varied coverage on blitzes, such that on a handful of plays they covered the RB and left, say, the 3rd WR or the TE open, it might make for more sacks or mistakes.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:42 pm

I suppose you're right Jared. A lot may have to do with my play calling, but Steven Jackson seemingly is always being shadowed, albeit 5 yards or so down the field.

Leadfoot5 · Post by **Leadfoot5** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:46 pm

I'm in the same boat as Rob. I suck at this game, but I keep playing since it's pretty darn fun this year. I normally struggle to keep the game competitive on Pro, even with a good team like the Chargers...

Anyway, last night I decided to try Bill's sliders for my 2nd and 3rd pre-season franchise games. After only 1 quarter on the fastest speed, I turned it back down to slow. I went on to lose to the Cardinals and Falcons, but I was in both games until the very end. It was only some bad passing decisions by me that led to some untimely turnovers.

I'm kind of curious what Bill's custom sliders equate to in terms of the default settings. Given that I was able to do pretty well, I have to think they fall somewhere in between Pro and All-Pro, but then that doesn't make sense as I should have struggled more than I did... Maybe the sliders are simply a "realistic results" setting and the game speed setting is more like the difficultly slider?

Any thoughts?

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:23 pm

Madden is vastly improved this year, but there are a few problems that need to be addressed. Passes to the flats are a problem because the LBs fail to cover the RB or TE. It is a big problem in singleback and shotgun sets, but not in the weak and strong side sets. You can run the same play in the singleback set and throw to the RB in the flats over and over racking up insane passing yards and the CPU will never adjust because the LBs stay in their zone. You can use almost any play in the singleback and shotgun sets that features the swing routes from the backfield to the flats and the RB will almost always be wide open for 10 to 15 years everytime. It is frustrating because the downfiled coverages are great and teams and players more closely resemble their real life counterparts. There are defensive plays in the game that stop this though so it is not a problem playing someone online.

I think overall Madden 10 is the best representation of football to date. They just need to refine LB zone coverages and make the LBs aware to cover the RB out of the backfield.

I hope they will patch this.

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:25 pm

I played two games with Harris' sliders as well. Not only is the speed realistic, but I think it brings out the violence of the collisions.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:32 pm

I'd love to try Harris' sliders, but I hate to have one gaming experience offline and another online. I'm going to be roadkill in the dynasty as it is.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:11 pm

OK, I am curious now, could someone post Abner's sliders? Thanks.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:11 pm

Can Harris's sliders be downloaded online or do you have to input them manually?

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:16 pm

You have to input them.

And 10spro, just google "Dubious Quality" and they're right there. They're also linked in the previous page I think.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:18 pm

TCrouch wrote:You have to input them.

And 10spro, just google "Dubious Quality" and they're right there. They're also linked in the previous page I think.

Thanks.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:45 pm

As to the speed issue from Harris's mega slider settings, I'm not convinced for a few reasons. First, as I said before, I'm pretty sure the time for Hester he was trying to match is one run without pads. I could he wrong, but I doubt it. Secondly, he is assuming that the scale of the players actually matches the scale of the field. That is, I'm not sure a six foot player would perfectly measure two yards on the Madden field. It needs to measured somehow, before making judgemnets about player speed that delve into the hundredths, or even the tenths of seconds.

And finally, I certainly notice that when I control a receiver and speed burst to catch up to a ball, he goes faster than he would if I let the CPU control him on its own. That is, I magne Hester would have been in maxed out sprint mode when running his real life 40, whereas it seems that Bill just let the CPU control Hester on a fly pattern, without speed burst, for his tests.

And that's not even getting into the innaccuracy of a human pushing a stop watch button when trying to measure time in the hundredths of a second.

He may well be right, and Fastest may indeed be the most 'realistic' in terms of player speed, but it seems to me there were a lot of assumptions made before data collection began, and margin of error in his time measurements is not taken into account.

But ultimately, I'm with Slumber in that default All Pro has been tons of fun for me. I'm one who is very reticent to mess with any sliders unless I becme 100% convinced that there are real problems that mus be addressed to maintan the fun of the game. I'm also very wary of the rule of unintended consequences or side effects, and we've all seen those pop up in sliders in past games.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:51 pm

What Zeppo said...and ..what Rob said.

For now Im good with the game as it is and messing with the speed and other sliders will only mess with me at this point.

Though I will eventually wind up playing some if not many games with Bill's final sliders. Ofcourse I am assuming that he hasnt played that many games himself with his current set to be done tweaking ????

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:09 pm

Zeppo wrote:I'm one who is very reticent to mess with any sliders unless I becme 100% convinced that there are real problems that must be addressed to maintan the fun of the game.

Here here. I love Bill's blog but "On the defaults, gameplay is positively glacial--there's nothing realistic about it at all." seems wildly subjective and "spending 30+ hours with the game since I received it (again, I got it early), the first 20 which mostly consisted of slider testing" falls so far afield from where I'm at these days. I would think the first 20 hours should consist of getting to know the game as it stands, but what do I know... he's been doing this a long time.