MLB Baseball 2009 Season Thread

snaz16 · Post by **snaz16** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:23 pm

Dodgers vs Cardinals game on ESPN tonite @ 7 will be broadcast from the respective dugouts w/ Hershiser and Phillips coordinating with Dan Shulman in the booth. Should be interesting.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:26 pm

Twas a great game too!!!

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:46 pm

Wow, Cliff Lee to the Phillies for a bunch of prospects.

It's like they're already giving up on NEXT year.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:15 pm

So that move puts Bosox as front runners for the Halladay sweepstakes, but personally I would prefer the Doc in a different division. He may pitch for the Jays for the last time tonight.

snaz16 · Post by **snaz16** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:11 pm

lexbur wrote:Wow, Cliff Lee to the Phillies for a bunch of prospects.

It's like they're already giving up on NEXT year.

And none of those prospects named Drabeck or Happ either. Key to the deal is a 18 yr old flamethrower / Knapp. At least 2-3 yrs away.

Tribe fans are not happy.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:17 pm

And Tribes fans should be pissed. For sure I would have demanded any of the named prospects, something the Phillies are obviously holding tight to their guts as JP Ricciardi demanded strongly on the possible Halladay move.

I hope JP sticks to his demands. If the deal is not there, just don't trade the Doc. I think it'll come between the Dodgers, Bosox, NYY has to be in the talks after knowing that BOS was interested in Halladay and who knows, maybe Philly is still in the mix since they didn't have to give away their prospects for C. Lee.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:02 am

Can I ask, as a semi-interested spectator, why on Earth anyone would actually go to watch and support Pittsburgh ? I know that fan loyalty etc is a strong force, but every season to see your team just patently give up and ship out any player to anyone willing to pay, or to trade unknowns, must be just massively demoralising.

It appears from this distance that it never even seems to be 'building for next year' or the other bobbins that football teams over here come out with. I know that teams over here do it, but usually only one or two unless the team are really broke.

To me, it would appear that the attitude of the Pirates ownership to their fans is one of the best arguments for a promotion and relegation system that I have seen.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:54 am

10spro wrote:and who knows, maybe Philly is still in the mix since they didn't have to give away their prospects for C. Lee.

That says it all right there about how bad the Tribe was fleeced. The Phillies gave up so little for Lee alot of people think they're still in contention for Halladay.

I still can't believe it.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:19 am

Maybe things aren't that bad for the Indians in this deal. The Phillies farm system is currently the class of the league. I just hope Phillies fans don't mope about not getting Halladay, which has become a local obsession. Personally I'd rather have Happ + Lee + our top prospects than Halladay by himself.

The Indians have done extensive studies of deals like this and found that teams which concentrate on "big league-ready" prospects as the centerpieces of these trades often make out the worst. Cleveland aims for upside -- and it ranked 18-year-old smokeballer Jason Knapp as having the highest ceiling of any arm in the Phillies' system, including Drabek's.

One scout we surveyed Wednesday compared Knapp to a young Jonathan Papelbon. Another said: "If his medicals check out, they may have gotten a young Roy Halladay."

Meanwhile, Baseball America ranked the other three players in the deal -- right-hander Carlos Carrasco, catcher Lou Marson and shortstop Jason Donald -- as the Nos. 2, 3 and 4 best prospects in the Phillies' system entering the season.

"Carrasco is a power arm with three plus pitches, and he's 22 years old," said one scout who covers the Phillies system. "I think Donald will be a very good player. I know some people think he'll have to change positions. But I still wouldn't rule out shortstop. My comparison for him has always been Rich Aurilia, a guy you look at from afar and say, 'He's not a shortstop.' Then you watch him play and say, 'Yeah, he is.' I see him as a guy who can hit 20 homers, hit .275 or .280, and play real good shortstop.

"And I really like Marson. I think he'll be a good player and a regular catcher in the big leagues. And what is he -- 23 years old? So I think both sides did well. Just because the Phillies have a good big league club and didn't fast-track these guys to the big leagues doesn't mean they're not good players. I think they are."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/s ... id=4364642

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:29 am

The Yanks are playing great ball and that's good for Joe Giradi who is supposedly on the hot seat. He did a solid job when managing the Marlins. Speaking of which, gotta love the way the Fish have been playing of late especially with their payroll.

The only team I know that wins a title then dismantles their team and rebuilds it into a winner again and again. Now if they can only find a way to beat the Phillies.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:33 am

davet010 wrote: To me, it would appear that the attitude of the Pirates ownership to their fans is one of the best arguments for a promotion and relegation system that I have seen.

Pittsburgh native Dave Dameshek said on his podcast that the Pirates are about preserving profit margins.

That is, they will always trade experienced, proven players for prospects to keep the payroll down, not because they don't have the revenues to support a higher payroll, but because they produce profits.

That is a different situation than the Marlins, the A's and the old Montreal Expos, which trade down because of necessity. For the A's, whether Holliday left in a trade or as a free agent meant the same thing, prospects in the form of a trade or extra picks in the draft.

We know these teams aren't looking to field a superior team in the future because they will just trade any prospects who become tradable commodities. Is that really different from soccer, where second or third tier teams have no hope of competing with the elite clubs but they can eke out profits in the transfer market, by balancing the returns of sales against winning just enough to keep the fans happy?

OTOH, I think future is overrated for a team like the Phillies. If Halladay put them in contention for the WS not just this year but the next 2-3, the additional revenues from the post-season could be used to replenish the farm system with international free agents, or so says Buster Olney.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:14 am

wco81 wrote:OTOH, I think future is overrated for a team like the Phillies. If Halladay put them in contention for the WS not just this year but the next 2-3, the additional revenues from the post-season could be used to replenish the farm system with international free agents, or so says Buster Olney.

The trouble with that kind of analysis is that ascertaining the marginal revenue value of adding Halladay would be very difficult, and likely far less in magnitude than some might suggest.

First, it's not like adding Halladay guarantees post-season success this year and next for the Phillies.

Second, the Phillies are likely postseason contenders anyway, so even if Halladay guaranteed postseason success, his addition does not cause the Phillies to go from $0 in postseason revenues to a high number.

From a revenue perspective, the most likely scenario is that adding Halladay does nothing more than make anticipated postseason revenues for the Phillies slightly more certain and/or slightly higher.

Additionally, when you consider the fact that adding Halladay is guaranteed to raise the Phillies costs by approximately $20 million (Halladay's guaranteed salary for the next 1+ year), the notion that the Phillies can afford to trade prospects for Halladay because they will earn the money back and can sign new international free agents seems strained, if not downright wrong.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:15 am

There's only one way to understand Halladay's impasse if he stll a blue bird by tomorrow. JP is not getting the prospects that he wants, and also Roy has stated that he wanted to test the open market once he's eligible after next season.

Still, this guy would upgrade automatically any potential playoff team to the big dance, he's consistent week after week and a winner.

But as I mentioned earlier, keep him a Jay if we can't get his worth.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:16 pm

Another black eye for baseball.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335

Big Papi and Manny...like there was any surprise.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:22 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Another black eye for baseball.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335

Big Papi and Manny...like there was any surprise.

What's a bigger 'black eye' for baseball? The face that 2 more names leaked or there was a 100+ players to test positive? The names are more fun for the media & fans, but 104 positive tests is really the issue, personally.

I'm pretty tired of it all & could care less anymore. If the entire 2003 Cardinals team showed-up in the list wouldn't change anything for me as a fan (including Pujols). Welcome to baseball in the modern era...

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:34 pm

I'm so f'n sick of these g-d damn cheaters! It pisses me off the majority of the fans don't give a rats a**. If Pujols name is on the list, I'm done...through.

That said, the 2004 WS Championship is tarnished in my opinion. Boston cheated plain and simple.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:22 pm

Ortiz just jacked one out & the place went crazy. maybe the boston fans haven't heard the news yet

(edit: not joking, he just hit a hr)

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:42 pm

greggsand wrote:Ortiz just jacked one out & the place went crazy. maybe the boston fans haven't heard the news yet (edit: not joking, he just hit a hr)

We shouldn't be surprised...sheeh.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:16 pm

sportdan30 wrote:I'm so f'n sick of these g-d damn cheaters! It pisses me off the majority of the fans don't give a rats a**. If Pujols name is on the list, I'm done...through.

That said, the 2004 WS Championship is tarnished in my opinion. Boston cheated plain and simple.

Any of those guys wouldn't surprise me for second and that includes both Howard and Pujols.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:39 pm

sportdan30 wrote:I'm so f'n sick of these g-d damn cheaters! It pisses me off the majority of the fans don't give a rats a**. If Pujols name is on the list, I'm done...through.

That said, the 2004 WS Championship is tarnished in my opinion. Boston cheated plain and simple.

'

Haa, so that's how they broke the long curse. Shocked? Not me anymore, just wished they released the full list and for everyone concerned, to carry on.

Papi has been struggling mightily the first half of the season and just before the AS' break started getting some hits. You wonder why...

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:54 pm

sportdan30 wrote:That said, the 2004 WS Championship is tarnished in my opinion. Boston cheated plain and simple.

Because every other player in the league outside of Boston was clean in 04?

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:58 pm

Another Angel Presinal "client" is busted.

And Manny's been juicing since 2003? It explains his need for female fertility drugs. 6+ years of juicing can do some major damage to one's testes.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:05 pm

There's cheating in every sport.

Phelps lost a race just the other day to a guy who improved his time by 4 seconds in the event over what he did in Beijing last summer.

By wearing a new kind of high-tech suit, which Phelps can't use because the company which sponsors him makes a competing brand.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:37 pm

wco81 wrote:There's cheating in every sport.

Phelps lost a race just the other day to a guy who improved his time by 4 seconds in the event over what he did in Beijing last summer.

By wearing a new kind of high-tech suit, which Phelps can't use because the company which sponsors him makes a competing brand.

How does that compare to baseball players using illegal drugs?

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:48 pm

Competitors will look to find any edge they can, whether it's PEDs or loopholes in the rules which allow disparity in technology.

And who's to say the Olympics swimmers aren't using PEDs which can't be detected yet?