OT: Racing 2009 (Spoiler Alert)

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:48 pm

pk500 wrote:Willi Weber already is backing off his comments that Schuey won't be in a Ferrari:

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... spa-monza/

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Schumacher in the car at Spa and Monza, especially Monza. It's the Tifosi's home track, it's the track where Schuey was forced to announce his retirement against his will.

The symbolism would be amazing.

As for those who say Michael wouldn't want to tarnish his legacy by climbing into this year's Ferrari, I think the opposite is true. He agreed to come to Ferrari in 1996 when Barnard's car was a total sh*tbox, much worse than this year's car. The man craves challenges and has a work ethic that still is unmatched by anyone in F1 today.

This is the perfect challenge, the perfect "f*ck you" to di Montezemolo while still helping his beloved Ferrari team.

Take care,
PK

That was 1996, well before he had his bundle of championships. Yes, he loves challenges, but he also is not stupid. Based on my observation of the type of person Michael is (which could be off base), he would only come back if he thought he could win. This year's Ferrari is not a winning car. MS could work until he was blue in the face, but that is meaningless if the car is not up to snuff. If he does come back it would be awesome for the sport. It might also light a fire under Kimi's butt. I just don't see it happening though.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:49 pm

Rodster wrote: F1 braced for BMW exit announcement

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77398

"BMW's future in Formula 1 is in serious doubt amid mounting speculation that the German car manufacturer will announce its withdrawal from the sport at the end of this season, on Wednesday.

An emergency press conference has been called at BMW's headquarters in Munich, where it is suggested that the car company may reveal that it has decided to end its involvement in F1."

Holy s***!

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:51 pm

toonarmy wrote:If he does come back it would be awesome for the sport. It might also light a fire under Kimi's butt. I just don't see it happening though.

That's why I tend to agree with the rumor that Fernando might drive the F60 at Valencia if in fact a deal has been struck already for his services for next year. Although I must say Kimi was on it last week at Hungary.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:11 pm

Rodster wrote:
toonarmy wrote:If he does come back it would be awesome for the sport. It might also light a fire under Kimi's butt. I just don't see it happening though.
That's why I tend to agree with the rumor that Fernando might drive the F60 at Valencia if in fact a deal has been struck already for his services for next year. Although I must say Kimi was on it last week at Hungary.

Yeah, Kimi drove great. He got a real good start and never let up. I'd say he was going extra hard for Felipe. Having Fernando on the same team at Valencia would push him to go balls-out as well. I would love to see it happen. The two best drivers currently in F1, in my opinion, are Kimi and Fernando. What a duo they would make!

EZSnappin · Post by **EZSnappin** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:27 pm

Rodster wrote:"BMW's future in Formula 1 is in serious doubt amid mounting speculation that the German car manufacturer will announce its withdrawal from the sport at the end of this season, on Wednesday.

BMW was racing in F1 this year? Huh. Fooled me.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:36 pm

toonarmy wrote:The two best drivers currently in F1, in my opinion, are Kimi and Fernando. What a duo they would make!

When Kimi is motivated then yes I agree. When he's not which has been most of this year then I would rather see Bourdais or Piquet fill that seat. Hopefully Ferrari will let Felipe keep his seat and bring in Alonso, or better yet put a third car on the grid.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:49 pm

Rodster wrote:
pk500 wrote:This is the perfect challenge, the perfect "f*ck you" to di Montezemolo while still helping his beloved Ferrari team.

Take care,
PK
I don't see how as Luca is Ferrari's Godfather. He would no doubt have to sign off on the decision. The more probable scenario is bringing in Fernando for Valencia with the blessings of Flavio if the rumor is true he's driving for Ferrari next year. There are other drivers Ferrari could call up to fill in at or after Valencia. Another driver no one has mentioned is Del la Rosa who may go on loan from McLaren.

I still don't see Michael driving the F60 this year.

Anyone who takes this seat is only going to do it for the rest of the season. So why not Schumacher? If he expresses interest in the seat or Weber does it for him, it would be a PR problem for Ferrari and di Montezemolo if Luca nixed the deal.

There already are enough rumors around that di Montezemolo told Schuey to go despite di Montezemolo's vehement denials.

Plus this would be a HUGE PR coup for Ferrari. The Prancing Horse would have the world's spotlight shining on it again even though it's cars aren't winning.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:54 pm

toonarmy wrote:That was 1996, well before he had his bundle of championships.

He had just come off of two on the trot, and there's no reason to believe he couldn't have won more with the Dream Team of Brawn, Byrne and Flavio at Benetton.

toonarmy wrote:Yes, he loves challenges, but he also is not stupid. Based on my observation of the type of person Michael is (which could be off base), he would only come back if he thought he could win. This year's Ferrari is not a winning car.

As I have said, Barnard's 1996 Ferrari was a MUCH bigger sh*tbox than this year's car, yet Michael still drove it to three victories that year. Granted, he was a much younger man then, but I still think the guy has it.

If he didn't win in this year's car, I bet he could put it on the podium just through sheer driving skill and his brains behind the wheel.

It would be VERY weird, though, to see Michael in a car that's not guided from the pit box by Brawn. Those two guys were telepathic. But Michael did do it in 1996, as Brawn was on "gardening leave" between Benetton and Ferrari and didn't join the Prancing Horse until late 1996, after the season.

The whole scenario is very intriguing.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:01 pm

toonarmy wrote:
Rodster wrote: F1 braced for BMW exit announcement

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77398

"BMW's future in Formula 1 is in serious doubt amid mounting speculation that the German car manufacturer will announce its withdrawal from the sport at the end of this season, on Wednesday.

An emergency press conference has been called at BMW's headquarters in Munich, where it is suggested that the car company may reveal that it has decided to end its involvement in F1."
Holy s***!

Two immediate thoughts on this.

One, it shows that maybe the vaunted improvement of BMW's technical structure was a mirage. BMW f*cked up badly on this year's car, and packing the tents after one bad car shows me either BMW never was that committed to F1 as a manufacturer financially or technically or that it's not selling a lot of street cars.

If the latter is the case, that brings me to my second thought. F1 fans can indirectly blame Bernard Charles Ecclestone for BMW's departure from the sport because Bernie continues to insist on taking F1 to banana republics where BMW doesn't sell many cars.

Theissen was one of the most vociferous critics of Bernie's decision to leave the U.S. and Canada since both are vital markets for BMW, especially the U.S.

So Bernie reaps what he sows.

But frankly, I don't greet this news with that much sadness. F1 would be a much stronger, better sport if privateer teams rose again, buttressed by manufacturer engine deals.

That would ensure that teams are in the sport because they're race teams, not because their participation in the sport is a marketing exercise that can end with one bad quarter of sales or by the knee-jerk whim of the corporate management team.

I think it's smarter for manufacturers to participate as engine suppliers. It shows the power, reliability and engineering of their companies with much less cost and financial risk, yet it still showcases something very relevant to potential purchasers of their passenger cars -- the power and reliability of their engines.

Something tells me Frank Williams will get a chuckle out of BMW's announcement tomorrow.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:00 pm

I still tend to agree with Willi Weber who said he has nothing else to prove. Another reason why he turned down the thought of driving in the I500 and in Nascar. IOW he's done with competitive racing that counts.

Another reason is that based on what I have read the relationship between Michael and Ferrari is cool at best. I believe it was Malaysia where he took some flack for strategy he suggested to the team and turned out not to be the best choice. Then there's the fallout with Luca and him being shown the door for Kimi.

I don't think Ferrari is looking for a PR nightmare in the event Michael drives the wheels off the car and it makes them look bad, because both Felipe and Kimi up to this point have not performed to the level that a 40 year old driver with a 2 year sabbatical comes in and gets on the podium and possibly converts it into a win or wins.

There was rumors on Autosport.com that Michael has been linked with Ross Brawn in the future. The guy has a closer bond to him and Jean Todt than he does to anyone currently at Ferrari.

I still say no way and would be

shocked if Michael drives the F60 this year at a Grand Prix. I think there is a better chance of Flavio letting Alonso drive the F60 at Valencia or Whitmarsh loaning Pedro De La Rosa to Ferrari for the rest of the season. Because the two Ferrari test drivers are not good enough IMO.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:09 am

BMW will quit F1 at the end of 2009

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77400

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:14 am

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77411
Doctors say Massa will race again

Dino Altmann, Felipe Massa's personal doctor, is certain that Felipe Massa will be able to race again. Altmann said that the trauma suffered by the Brazilian was not as bad as first thought, and that his condition has improved rapidly.

"I have no doubt Felipe will race again," he told Gazzetta dello Sport. "I'm sure of that. "Stimulated by the physiotherapist, he showed he knows left from right and he has full awareness of distance and depth," said Atlmann. "And his memory loss regards a short time.

"His eye has been opened, with care because it is still swollen, and he has said he can see. His vision has not weakened. "He gave appropriate answers in three languages: Portuguese, Italian, and English. That means that the brain's cognitive area is fine."

Domenicali added that Massa's place at Ferrari will be kept open for him when he is fit enough to return. "The data is encouraging, but in these situations it's better to be prudent and take one step at a time," he said. "We want him to recover as soon as possible. "I confirmed to him that we are looking forward to his return soon, that the car is his, and that as soon as he's ready he'll be back with us."

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:31 am

Do you guys think Indy is the most famous track in the world? I remember hearing that 2 or 3 times during the Brickyard pre race show. I know it's gotta be the #1 track in the country, but the world? I would think Le Mans, Nurburgring and even Monaco are more famous throughout the world. What do you guys think?

A question for PK.. Why are there so often big ponds in the infield of big courses. What purpose does the one at Indy serve. And how many holes are on the golf course there? Thanks!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:23 pm

fletcher21 wrote:Do you guys think Indy is the most famous track in the world? I remember hearing that 2 or 3 times during the Brickyard pre race show. I know it's gotta be the #1 track in the country, but the world? I would think Le Mans, Nurburgring and even Monaco are more famous throughout the world. What do you guys think?

Only Le Mans comes close worldwide. Go almost anywhere in the world and mention Indy -- people will know the city because of the track and the 500.

Go to my corner bar and mention Le Mans or the Nurburgring, and you'll get blank stares. Mention Monaco, and the boys will say, "That's where you don't have to pay income tax while you're living on a big boat."

Indy is synonymous with racing worldwide, and vice-versa, regardless of what you think of the current status of the Indianapolis 500. That's what 100 years of history and relevance will do for a facility, and that's more history than any of the other facilities you mentioned.

fletcher21 wrote:A question for PK.. Why are there so often big ponds in the infield of big courses. What purpose does the one at Indy serve. And how many holes are on the golf course there? Thanks!

The pond in the infield of IMS is part of the golf course. Four of Brickyard Crossing's 18 holes are located in the infield of the oval. The other 14 are located outside of the backstretch. Great course, designed by Pete Dye.

Daytona has a lake in the infield -- Lake Lloyd -- because a large section of the infield was excavated for the dirt used to build the steeply banked turns. Daytona is at sea level, so when the hole was created to get the dirt, the high water table filled the hole with water. Voila -- instant 29-acre lake!

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:23 pm

Rodster wrote:I still say no way and would be shocked if Michael drives the F60 this year at a Grand Prix. I think there is a better chance of Flavio letting Alonso drive the F60 at Valencia or Whitmarsh loaning Pedro De La Rosa to Ferrari for the rest of the season. Because the two Ferrari test drivers are not good enough IMO.

Given Ferrari and McLaren's history of unfortunate data sharing, maybe PDLR isn't the obvious choice, and I'd imagine Flav would want to be suitably recompensed for any Alonso-based deal. That's especially true if you believe the latest comments from friend of petrolheadblog.com Nelson Piquet Jr, a man presumably riding on a one-way ticket to the job centre.

Ferrari's test drivers are still Badoer and Gene, aren't they? Badoer hasn't raced in F1 since 1999 as far as I can recall, Gene more recently but not so recently that you'd be confident about when it was (2003 for Williams?), and they'll be coming into it without either recent running or a great reputation so yes, I'd be hesitant about putting them in a car too. I'd be still more hesitant about your Bourdais and Piquet suggestions, Rod, because they are two men who've spent the last 18 months failing to look deserving of a place on the grid.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:23 pm

It's official: Schu is back until Massa makes his full recovery.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:25 pm

I guess i'll open that can of PK crow. Someone pass the hot sauce please.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:40 pm

Hate to say I told you so ...

This will be compelling as hell to see Schuey in a car without gizmos and with slicks.

Take care,
PK

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:41 pm

Rodster wrote: I guess i'll open that can of PK crow. Someone pass the hot sauce please.

I'll bring the hot sauce if you'll give me some of that crow. I need to eat a healthy portion. I thought there was no way in hell MS would do this. It's awesome, though, and I cannot wait to see MS back on the track again. It will be interesting to see how competitive he can be having not driven this car and having been out of F1 for several years. Unbelievable news.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:49 pm

I just saw that the IndyCars are going to be able to us the push to pass system starting with the race in Kentucky. Anyone know how similar this system is to the one that Champ Car used?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:11 pm

toonarmy wrote:I just saw that the IndyCars are going to be able to us the push to pass system starting with the race in Kentucky. Anyone know how similar this system is to the one that Champ Car used?

Pretty much identical since the architect of P2P for Champ Car -- former chief steward Tony Cotman -- is the No. 2 guy now in the competition department of the IRL.

Cotman is one sharp cookie.

I have read in a few forums today how former Champ Car devotees are angry that the IRL "stole" the P2P idea from Champ Car, along with the red-wall tires. Since the last -- and arguably the best -- leader of Champ Car's competition department is working now for the IRL, how is that stealing?

Champ Car and IndyCar have been one for 17 months. Some people just need to let it go -- I'm NOT directing this toward you, Toon -- and enjoy what hopefully will be improved racing with P2P.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:12 pm

toonarmy wrote:
Rodster wrote: I guess i'll open that can of PK crow. Someone pass the hot sauce please.
I'll bring the hot sauce if you'll give me some of that crow. I need to eat a healthy portion. I thought there was no way in hell MS would do this. It's awesome, though, and I cannot wait to see MS back on the track again. It will be interesting to see how competitive he can be having not driven this car and having been out of F1 for several years. Unbelievable news.

I hope Schuey blows Raikkonen into the weeds, either forcing Kimi to learn the meaning of the word "work" or accelerating Kimi's plans for a life of full-time vodka drinking.

Take care,
PK

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:15 pm

pk500 wrote:
toonarmy wrote:I just saw that the IndyCars are going to be able to us the push to pass system starting with the race in Kentucky. Anyone know how similar this system is to the one that Champ Car used?
Pretty much identical since the architect of P2P for Champ Car -- former chief steward Tony Cotman -- is the No. 2 guy now in the competition department of the IRL.

Cotman is one sharp cookie.

Take care,
PK

Cool. Hopefully it adds something positive to the racing and strategy. Given the closeness of finishes in most races I would think that better utilizing the push and pass system than your opponent over the course of a race could mean the difference between losing and winning.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:21 pm

pk500 wrote: I hope Schuey blows Raikkonen into the weeds, either forcing Kimi to learn the meaning of the word "work" or accelerating Kimi's plans for a life of full-time vodka drinking.

Take care,
PK

That's Kimi's main problem, work ethic and motivation. When Kimi applies either one of those he's up there with Alonso who is currently considered one of the best drivers in the world. But Ferrari is to blame knowing full well Kimi's work and motivation issues before signing him and giving him an extension.

Something tells me come Valencia Kimi will bring his A game.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:29 pm

pk500 wrote:
toonarmy wrote:
Rodster wrote: I guess i'll open that can of PK crow. Someone pass the hot sauce please.
I'll bring the hot sauce if you'll give me some of that crow. I need to eat a healthy portion. I thought there was no way in hell MS would do this. It's awesome, though, and I cannot wait to see MS back on the track again. It will be interesting to see how competitive he can be having not driven this car and having been out of F1 for several years. Unbelievable news.
I hope Schuey blows Raikkonen into the weeds, either forcing Kimi to learn the meaning of the word "work" or accelerating Kimi's plans for a life of full-time vodka drinking.

Take care,
PK

We'll see. I still have not been able to pass judgment on whether Kimi is a slacker, or if that's just the impression people get based on his personality and off-track interests. When Raikkonen is in a good reliable car that has a chance at winning he can be lightning fast. Having MS or Alonso, either one, go head-to-head against Kimi in the same Ferrari will be revealing. If MS is right up there with Kimi, or even beats him, in his first race back then it will show Kimi needs to work harder. Gauging Kimi vs Felipe this year has been hard since the Ferraris have had some mechanical difficulties during races. Massa had a bit of an edge on Kimi, but then again Kimi's equipment has not been exactly great. Also, Kimi and the Ferrari looked tough in Hungary, so maybe that combined with the pressure of having one of the all-time greats as a teammate, will give Kimi a second wind this year.