Soccer thread 08/09 (will have spoilers!)

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:03 am

Well, you can just buy any newspaper over here, or try tuning into Sky Sports, they all think that everything Ferguson does turns to gold, despite a long list of transfer deadbeats...they also salivate over their youth production line, which has turned out what, like a whole 2 starters in the last 10 years in O'Shea and Fletcher, neither of whom would start for another club in the top 10.

Chants are also being planned for the next Derby...

"You're just a team full of Scousers..."

"You're the pride of Merseyside.."

Don't think it'll ever reach the heights of having a plane fly over the ground trailing a banner with 'You're the pride of Singapore' behind it..

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:23 am

JRod wrote:
Look I know it's a part of the game, but a year in the Championship at Newcastle or at Man U. Kenny Daglish would go to Old Trafford. No one is that loyal to a team. No one is that batshit crazy.

I didn't expect him to stay at Newcastle but he could have gone to another team apart from United.

There have been a number of high profile players that have been loyal to their clubs when they got relegated - Baresi went down with Milan, half of the Juve side that got relegated also stayed. Anyway, I understand what you're saying but I'm making the point if he truly cared about his legacy as a Liverpool player then he should have gone elsewhere. He doesn't care. Hence, for me Owen = c***.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:27 am

Funny, Owen leaving Newcastle doesn't affect me one bit. I think Carl Cort played more games during his four years on the Tyne.

Take care,
PK

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:38 am

Macca00 wrote:
JRod wrote:
Look I know it's a part of the game, but a year in the Championship at Newcastle or at Man U. Kenny Daglish would go to Old Trafford. No one is that loyal to a team. No one is that batshit crazy.
I didn't expect him to stay at Newcastle but he could have gone to another team apart from United.

There have been a number of high profile players that have been loyal to their clubs when they got relegated - Baresi went down with Milan, half of the Juve side that got relegated also stayed. Anyway, I understand what you're saying but I'm making the point if he truly cared about his legacy as a Liverpool player then he should have gone elsewhere. He doesn't care. Hence, for me Owen = c***.

Oddly enough, all the examples you identify were relegations through matchfixing. Serie B is a weak league, so there is no way that Milan (twice) and Juve weren't coming straight back. The Juventus players who remained only did so because they were still in contract and Juve didn't want to sell the whole side because they would need a platform for the next season.

Owen is still a cock, though I must admit if I'd been rejected by Blackburn and my agent had only been fielding calls from Hull and Stoke, then I might have considered MU too (although only as a suicide bomber in my case).

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:56 am

You don't really have that loyalty thing going in American sports. Players recognize rightly that it's a business and that teams and fans are no more loyal to players.

Soccer is a big-time sport. The owners approach it that way and will sell jersey sponsorship to the highest bidder.

If Babe Ruth split his career evenly between the Red Sox and the Yankees, would his career accomplishments be in any way diminished? Both clubs would probably have retired his number.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:42 am

wco81 wrote:You don't really have that loyalty thing going in American sports. Players recognize rightly that it's a business and that teams and fans are no more loyal to players.

Soccer is a big-time sport. The owners approach it that way and will sell jersey sponsorship to the highest bidder.

If Babe Ruth split his career evenly between the Red Sox and the Yankees, would his career accomplishments be in any way diminished? Both clubs would probably have retired his number.

The attitude, I think, that a lot of fans have towards their clubs is simple - it's our club, and most players are just hired mercs who wear it for a while. Some players transcend that until they actually are felt to embody something of the ethos of a particular club, but most of the time their badge-kissing antics can be ignored.

Owen's transfer is slightly different in that he always claimed to be a big Liverpool fan as a kid, and therefore in the minds of most Liverpool fans shouldn't even have considered this as a move to their worst enemy. I'm sure he would have preferred going to Liverpool, but it is fairly obvious that Benitez doesn't rate him, as they've had ample opportunities to get him back.

Rumour has it that Owen could have gone to Everton in January. That would have been acceptable, just, to Liverpool fans, as there is plenty of Scouse solidarity, and mixed red-blue families are much more common in Liverpool than they are in Manchester or London. But to Man U ? No, he'll get a very hot reception when he plays at Anfield, and his performance while there are too far in the past to shield him.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:28 pm

What were the circumstances of his departure?

It wasn't completely his choice to leave?

Was he still under 30?

What was he suppose to do, retire if he couldn't play for Liverpool any longer?

Pro athletes have to ply their trade wherever they can. Every year, younger athletes are coming up to take their jobs. Or injury could end their careers and they have to get real jobs.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:04 pm

He left Liverpool because Benitez wanted to sell him, pretty much - Real Madrid only paid £8m plus a player.

No one would be that bothered about this transfer except that Owen had always made a big play about being from Liverpool and hating Man U, perhaps not to the cartoonish extent that Robbie Fowler did, but still a fair amount. To then turn round and join them, that is the issue here - like i said, if he hadn't made it a part of his persona, or if he had and then joined someone other than MU, no one would care less.

As for money, well he had about £25m out of Newcastle for a return of 30 goals and relegation..guess who got the best of that deal ?

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:29 pm

Michael Owen can go f*** himself. He scored meaningless goals by and large for the Toon. He was hurt more than I care to remember. He raked in a truckload of cash in his tenure. He showed little to no passion in the matches he did play. I'm glad the bastard is gone, and for the life of me I do not understand what Ferguson is thinking in bringing Owen into Old Trafford. I don't fault Owen for jumping at this opportunity, but I do blame the little shitwad for his performance (or lack thereof) at NUFC.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:18 pm

Chelsea sign Zhirkov - I think this is a fantastic signing for the rent-boys. Our own Rob V had him scouted out last year.

Makes the 18 million spent on Glen Johnson by Rafa seem even more crazy (though he's English, hence the premium - also 'cause of the 5+6 rule in the CL he becomes valuable).

In other news Ribery says he doesn't want to leave Bayern....right after saying he only wants to join Real. This can mean only one thing - he's going to play for both. Saturday midday he plays for Bayern, flies down to Spain after the game and the next day plays for Madrid. I think that would work wonderfully.....maybe as some charity work he could play the odd Wednesday for Liverpool as well.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:56 am

This is going to end badly, just like the last time Perez was there. Pellegrini won't last til the end of the season, as he'll be expected to win every game. They'll have a load of prancing egos, so team rotation will be out of the question, and the defence is still shite.

Can't wait for them to fail - I hate RM almost as much as Bayern, but then as clubs they are very similar.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:33 am

I wish Bayern were like RM. Be a bit more silverware from Europe.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:46 am

The last time Perez was in charge was the least successful 7 year period in their history. I'm hoping for a repeat.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:54 am

Onyewu to Milan on a free transfer.

Didn't see that one coming!! I'm not surprised he went to an Italian team after he was very good in both the WC and Confed Cup in games against Italy, but didn't expect Milan to be the team to get him.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:58 pm

So about 80.000 fanatics showed up in Madrid as Real made the Ronaldo acquisition official. 80.000 souls to watch him just do a few tricks.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:58 pm

Just like their home games - except there was no booing after 10 minutes and 30,000 of them hadn't left with 20 minutes to go.

I'm really looking forward to the car crash that will be Real Madrid...wonder if they've got another piece of dodgy ground they can sell off when it all goes tits up again.

Bookies over here only offering evens on Pellegrini getting binned by Xmas.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:21 pm

10spro wrote:So about 80.000 fanatics showed up in Madrid as Real made the Ronaldo acquisition official. 80.000 souls to watch him just do a few tricks.

I cannot wait to see the match between Barca and Real at Camp Nou this season.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:56 pm

Mexicans are up to shennanigans (Mexinnanigans?) with the QC qualifier in Azteca. 3PM local start time on a Wednesday!

http://tinyurl.com/llhzvl

Post by **Jared** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:25 pm

RobVarak wrote:Mexinnanigans?

Dude, that's my favorite Irish-Mexican bar!

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:28 pm

RobVarak wrote:Mexicans are up to shennanigans (Mexinnanigans?) with the QC qualifier in Azteca. 3PM local start time on a Wednesday!

http://tinyurl.com/llhzvl

How is that shenanigans? The temperature in the daytime that time of year is very moderate, so heat cannot be the issue. I would assume they are doing what they feel can bring in the most money or avoid the least amount of trouble. Either way, I cannot wait to see the US kick their butts.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:06 am

Nice to see that Fergie has a challenger for his 'biggest nob in football' title...yes, step forward Rafa '1 FA Cup in 4 years so I'm a great manager' Benitez !!

According to this 'expert'

"The market is all crazy now, it's all money, money, money"

So Torres et al were signed up by you with baskets of warm buns, perhaps? And the pay rise given to Gerrard is all in monopoly money (probably just as well, given the size of Liverpool's debts).

He's also had a moan about Gareth Barry joining City, but let's step back and spell things out a little for our deluded Iberian chum.

1. Aston Villa did not accept your offer last year because it was an I-l-l-e-g-a-l A-p-p-r-o-a-c-h, Rafa, for which you were very lucky to escape the charge of tapping up.

2. Aston Villa accepted City's bid this year because it was a legal approach, and not because we'd spent 2 months splurging to the press about it beforehand. Of course, Rafa is now saying that Liverpool made an offer this year...yes, but it wasn't as big as City's. And now poor Rafa is upset - well tough s***, sunshine.

And now he pays £18m for an average RB, and that's all City's fault as well. Hmm, odd that, when City didn't bid for him, showed no interest in doing so, and actually have 2 home grown players in the first team squad who can play there. I'll pause for a while so that Benitez can look up home grown...yes, it's Stephen Gerrard in 1999 as far as you know.

And now the bookies over here are taking lots of bets on Franck Ribery going to Liverpool...frankly laughable, but hey, that's their choice. And if he comes, what magical substance will have been used to facilitate this ? Well, hold on to your economic downturns, as it will have been money (someone else's in Liverpool's case, obv). I hope they do get him, if only to shut that fat Spanish ham up as they fail to win the title again.

Benitez should stop griping about his American owners - it's only their pantomime that prevents people looking at the return on their outlay since 2005.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:09 am

You're almost as sensitive as I am.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:45 am

But three times as right

It's time to stop curtseying in front of the so-called Big 4 and put the boot in. The first time one of them misses out on the CL, then it'll be panic stations, so time to see about making it happen.

Oh, and the odds came down on Liverpool signing Ribery because someone put a £200 bet on....the bookies thought it was so unlikely that anyone putting that on would do so without being in the know, so dropped the odds like a stone.

There's no chance of course, unless they sold Alonso and Mascherano. Never mind, they'd still have Lucas to boss the midfield

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:43 pm

davet010 wrote:But three times as right

It's time to stop curtseying in front of the so-called Big 4 and put the boot in. The first time one of them misses out on the CL, then it'll be panic stations, so time to see about making it happen.

Amazing how supporters of the non-Big 4 teams feel so qualified to opine on big club politics and policy without ever having actually witnessed it first hand. Random punters' opinions on the best way to nail supermodels are about as useful and accurate.

Seriously, I don't know what the hell Rafa's fixation on Barry is all about. I don't rate him at all, and it's hard to imagine that his meager contributions were what LFC lacked last year or need this.

The Johnson signing can only be looked at through the prism of the ridiculous new CL rules. Fair price for a good player in a market which has gone from an indirect to a forced premium on English players.

And forgive Rafa for overlooking City's homegrown defenders. Most of us outside Manchester have a hard time remembering that the Citizens have any defenders at all.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:24 pm

RobVarak wrote:
davet010 wrote:But three times as right

It's time to stop curtseying in front of the so-called Big 4 and put the boot in. The first time one of them misses out on the CL, then it'll be panic stations, so time to see about making it happen.
Amazing how supporters of the non-Big 4 teams feel so qualified to opine on big club politics and policy without ever having actually witnessed it first hand. Random punters' opinions on the best way to nail supermodels are about as useful and accurate.

Seriously, I don't know what the hell Rafa's fixation on Barry is all about. I don't rate him at all, and it's hard to imagine that his meager contributions were what LFC lacked last year or need this.

The Johnson signing can only be looked at through the prism of the ridiculous new CL rules. Fair price for a good player in a market which has gone from an indirect to a forced premium on English players.

And forgive Rafa for overlooking City's homegrown defenders. Most of us outside Manchester have a hard time remembering that the Citizens have any defenders at all.

Probably becaue long years of having borne their tediously hypocritical outbursts have brought about such realisations - and your point about policy and politics is irrelevant, as that was not what I was talking about. What is relevant is Benitez's frequent bleatings about the activities of other clubs (transfer fees/wages etc), when Liverpool are constantly engaged in those activities themselves. Those policies are open for all to see.

Gareth Barry - obviously Capello sees something in him which you don't. It's odd that Benitez was willing to tap him up last year for £18m, but now gripes when someone signs him using a bit more honesty and class. Might be useful as an example of how to conduct dealings though, when you lose Alonso and Mascherano.

CL quotas aren't new. Maybe if Liverpool had a functioning academy, they'd be OK, but oh, guess what, they don't. Get over it.

No defenders at all, eh ? Liverpool's strikers must have been properly absent when the two teams drew 1-1 at Anfield then, putting the final nail in the coffin of Liverpool's latest Premiership failure. I hear that there were calls for Spanish Ham's head that day as well...