Racing Sim Thread, Part II

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:03 pm

I was an early, persistent skeptic of iRacing. Tried it in November with a closed mind, and unsurprisingly wasn't impressed.

But I have become bored with LFS (racing FBMW's on Blackwood GP EVERY race online gets dull) and rFactor (horrific racecraft on public servers), so I gave iRacing another try. I'm very glad I did.

This is a pretty abstract statement, but iRacing seems to do a heck of a lot more things right than any other sim if you're into online racing.

A few specifics. As many others have mentioned, the track modeling is superb, much better than any other sim. You can feel every bump, every dip, every ripple. Excellent force feedback also helps you feel all of the imperfections that are captured in each track.

Combine that with iRacing's superb physics, and the game creates more of a "seat of the pants" feel than any other PC racing sim. When you start clicking off laps in this game, you can really get into the zone and become so focused on braking markers, acceleration points at apexes, steering input, etc. This game plunges you into the rhythm of driving a race car better than any other I've tried, even GPL.

Some castigate iRacing for the lack of modding. I see it as a strength. When iRacing releases a track and a car, you know it's done right and done to a consistent set of VERY high standards. rFactor's mods and tracks are so hit-and-miss; you never know whether you're going to get gold or crap.

iRacing's online racing structure is MUCH less limiting than it appears on the surface. At first, I bought into the idea that sitting around and waiting to race on iRacing's schedule was a bad idea.

Not so.

iRacing conducts racing in classes every hour in the evenings. Every hour. Plus you can jump in practice sessions with other racers while waiting for the race and have almost as much fun as in a race. Some of the most breathtaking sim racing I've ever enjoyed has been in Legends practice sessions at the Lanier Speedway oval.

Plus you can turn hot laps in ANY car you own on ANY track you own -- regardless of your license status -- at ANY time. Even if your license status forbids you from racing that car, you can still get seat time in it, have fun with it, lower your lap times and become a better driver.

One of the main reasons that the racing is so good in iRacing is the quality of opponents. Every racer is there because they're serious about the hobby and about doing well. The racecraft and give-and-take is FAR BETTER in iRacing than any other public online racing community. It's not even close.

I have read posts where some have criticized the iRacing community as elitist, unwilling to help newbies or share advice. Nonsense. I have found the vast majority of iRacers to be tolerant and helpful. Are veterans giving away long-toiled setups? No. But are they offering tips and being patient with occasional mistakes? You bet.

If you're into offline racing with AI, then iRacing isn't for you. There is no AI offline racing! But if you're into online racing, iRacing is the best available game/service right now, and it's worth the coin if you're serious about the hobby of sim racing and having fun with it.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:30 pm

Nice impressions PK, it gives me another perspective of iRacing. I'm strictly an offline racer and there's too much free stuff in rFactor versus the doe you need to shell out in iRacing especially in this economy.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:28 pm

Rodster wrote:Nice impressions PK, it gives me another perspective of iRacing. I'm strictly an offline racer and there's too much free stuff in rFactor versus the doe you need to shell out in iRacing especially in this economy.

Yep. iRacing definitely is not for you if you prefer or even like offline racing. There is no offline component to iRacing.

Take care,
PK

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:55 am

Paul, great summary of iRacing strengths. Sad to say, I have spent far more time with iRacing in Test mode runnning laps in cars that I can't race due to my license, but I love it. I had let my subscription expire because it was such an expensive hotlapping sim (for me), but once Road Atlanta showed up, I signed back up.

Rodster wrote:Nice impressions PK, it gives me another perspective of iRacing. I'm strictly an offline racer and there's too much free stuff in rFactor versus the doe you need to shell out in iRacing especially in this economy.

I enjoy offline racing as well, but can you honestly give me more than 5 rFactor mods where the AI is actually raceable? Even some of the best mods out there will have AI that crashes together in corner 1, can't make it out of the pits, doesn't pit correctly, gets damaged and out of the race in 2 laps, etc. As much as I love rFactor, I have hardly raced offline due to that issue. It also seems to depend on the track as well. The mod's AI may run fine on a particular track, but then it is pants on another.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:10 am

DChaps wrote:I enjoy offline racing as well, but can you honestly give me more than 5 rFactor mods where the AI is actually raceable?

No. And that is one of the great weaknesses of the "Wild West" nature of rFactor mods, along with the track-dependent AIW files to which you referred.

The ease of modding is a great plus for rFactor, but only when in the hands of capable modders. And regardless of the mod, public server racing in rFactor is a mess these days. Too many variations of this mod and that mod, no consistent servers other than for Renault Meganes, way too many wreckers, etc.

rFactor is a dying game for me. The offline racing is boring or unrealistic due to AI problems, and the public online racing is a disaster. The only time I enjoy rFactor is when running with DSP guys. We need to do that more.

iRacing has superb online racing with serious, ethical racers (for the most part), and hot-lapping any car alone is great fun because of the realistic physics and incredibly good track modeling.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:28 pm

DChaps wrote:Paul, great summary of iRacing strengths. Sad to say, I have spent far more time with iRacing in Test mode runnning laps in cars that I can't race due to my license, but I love it. I had let my subscription expire because it was such an expensive hotlapping sim (for me), but once Road Atlanta showed up, I signed back up.

Rodster wrote:Nice impressions PK, it gives me another perspective of iRacing. I'm strictly an offline racer and there's too much free stuff in rFactor versus the doe you need to shell out in iRacing especially in this economy.
I enjoy offline racing as well, but can you honestly give me more than 5 rFactor mods where the AI is actually raceable? Even some of the best mods out there will have AI that crashes together in corner 1, can't make it out of the pits, doesn't pit correctly, gets damaged and out of the race in 2 laps, etc. As much as I love rFactor, I have hardly raced offline due to that issue. It also seems to depend on the track as well. The mod's AI may run fine on a particular track, but then it is pants on another.

rFactor is not my main offline racing sim. I prefer GP4 with all the mods, NR2003, RBR, GTR2, STCC, Race 07 and Mobile 1 Rally.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:09 am

Don:

Have you driven the Radical SR8 in iRacing? Insane fun. Well, well worth the $20.

I was hot-lapping the Radical SR8 around Road Atlanta Long and Silverstone National tonight, and it was as good as it gets in sim racing. Ridiculous how immersive and real it felt.

So far, my favorite iRacing cars are the Radical SR8, Formula Mazda and the Legends car. But hell, I'm even starting to like the Solstice around Laguna. A total momentum car, and it's so rewarding to nail apexes and the Corkscrew better with every lap and shave tenth by tenth.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:07 pm

This is for Don, Grant and PK, get your wallets ready fellas.

http://www.virtualr.net/iracing-article-on-nascarcom/

Three weeks ago, iRacing.com and NASCAR announced plans to start an official NASCAR-sanctioned online racing series in 2010. The partnership with one of the world’s most important racing series is already paying off as the iRacing online simulation was recently featured on NASCAR.com

The official NASCAR website is one of the most frequent used websites in the United States, giving the simulation and sim racing in general a lot of exposure. The article features NASCAR star Dale Earnhardt Jr. and carefully explains that getting started in sim racing doesn’t require much more than buying a steering wheel.

While this type of promo for sim racing is surely excellent, iRacing might be running in a little problem with their spokesperson soon. Even though Eanhardt Jr. is the most popular NASCAR driver, his on-track performances are on a rather quick downward-spiral right now, being over 600 points behind championship leader Tony Stewart after several mistake-ridden races. Not exactly the best situation to be in when you´re promoting a simulation that’s meant to be professional training tool…..

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:20 pm

I have no interest in an oval racing series with stock cars. But the little Legends cars are a RIOT on short tracks in iRacing -- more intense, immersive fun than any oval racing I've done in any other sim.

Junior is way more than a celebrity spokesman for iRacing. He's a longtime PC sim racer and played iRacing since the beta stages. In fact, he's the top-ranked driver in the world right now in the Oval portion of the Pro level of iRacing.

A lot of professional drivers use iRacing besides Junior. IRL drivers Justin Wilson, Tomas Scheckter and Townsend Bell, NASCAR drivers A.J. Allmendinger, Bobby Labonte, Colin Braun, David Green, Marcos Ambrose and Brad Keselowski, Grand Am driver Alex Gurney to name a few.

I was running a Time Trial by myself last night in a Legends car at the Lanier short track, and Firestone Indy Lights driver Martin Plowman dropped in to turn some laps. That was cool.

Again, I'm lucky because I have a comp subscription to iRacing. But I think it's worth every penny and will think long and hard about paying for it when my comp expires. It's THAT good.

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:57 am

I might take the 3 month trial for a spin to see how I feel about it.

I can't believe I just said that!

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:02 am

Hey is there a promo code for the 3-month for $25 deal? I didn't see it on the iRacing site.

EDIT: Never mind, I found it.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:11 am

Well I signed up now, even though we go on vacation in a few days. Since the promo code had MAY2009 in it I wanted to get in before they stopped using it.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to mess around on it later.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:16 am

So I get everything up and running and do some laps at Lanier in a Legends Ford. Everything in the sim is very smooth and looked and felt nice.

Except I now know why I had such problems at our last rFactor night.

Turns out I must have a problem with my pedals, because when pressed down, the accelerator jumps around like crazy, it won't hold steady at all. iRacing has a cool little window where you can see your wheel and pedal inputs, and my little green bar was all over the place. So it looks like I need a new wheel.

What are your current recommendations?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:23 am

Gurantsu wrote:So I get everything up and running and do some laps at Lanier in a Legends Ford. Everything in the sim is very smooth and looked and felt nice.

Except I now know why I had such problems at our last rFactor night.

Turns out I must have a problem with my pedals, because when pressed down, the accelerator jumps around like crazy, it won't hold steady at all. iRacing has a cool little window where you can see your wheel and pedal inputs, and my little green bar was all over the place. So it looks like I need a new wheel.

What are your current recommendations?

Depends on your price range. If you're willing to spend the coin, everyone I know with a Logitech G25 RAVES about it. A cheaper alternative is the Logitech DFGT is the new successor to the venerable DFP.

I'm also reading and hearing good things about the Fanatec series of Porsche wheels.

http://www.fanatec.com/

I have tried the $250 Fanatec wheel, and it was nice. But I preferred the Logitech. Guess I'm just used to its "feel."

The Fanatec Clubsport pedals look insanely nice, though. Have read nothing but showers of praise for them.

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:41 pm

Well I found a DFP on Ebay for $58 shipped. Used but in good condition plus the guy has excellent feedback and offers a 30-day warranty on it. I was tempted by the G25, but to be honest I would never use the clutch or the separate gear shift so I couldn't see spending the extra money. The Fanatec wheels look sweet but again the price is a bit high. My good old Momo has lasted a really long time so I'm comfortable with Logitechs quality.

So hopefully my new wheel gets here before we leave for vacation!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:07 pm

Grant:

You'll dig the DFP. I've used one for about two years now.

I highly recommend the sponge ball hack to which I linked earlier in this thread for the DFP brake pedal. Proper brake modulation is VITAL in iRacing; otherwise the brakes lock up quite easily.

Let me know if you want or need any setup tips for the DFP. It operates with many of the same Profiler/Windows Game Controller settings as the DFP, so your transition should be seamless.

I STRONGLY recommend setting the wheel at 900 degrees for iRacing. The game automatically and realistically sets the range of your wheel based on the mod you're driving, one of the very cool features of iRacing. So therefore, you need to really turn the wheel in tight corners in the street-based Solstice, while just a nudge of the wheel will turn the car when driving something like the Radical or the Star Mazda.

Way cool. Let's get together for some iRacing practice some night when you get your wheel!

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:34 pm

Those of you who like your racing games to feature only obscure Italian saloon car series may be interested in the V8 Superstars game Brent brought us information on a few pages ago, and which now has a demo on the UK XBox Marketplace. Impressions to follow, though nobody will blame you if you can't find it within you to give a flying toss.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:22 pm

Do you remember Total Immersion Racing? V8 Superstars isn't quite as good as that. The steering is woolly, imprecise and unresponsive, taking the lessons of NFS Prostreet and ignoring them completely. The cars feel unrealistically light, disconnected from the road and prone to strange, unnatural slides, probably because - and I promise this is true - they steer around a central pivot. The AI might be great but I always crash trying to avoid them braking on the exit of turn one, and when I do that I find the damage modelling to be unspectacular at best. To say more I'd need to play more, and I don't want to do that.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:45 am

GB_Simo wrote:Do you remember Total Immersion Racing? V8 Superstars isn't quite as good as that.

Oh, dear. That's a damning indictment if there ever was one. TIR was AWFUL.

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:33 am

Well I had to work last night, and I saw that Gamestop has a special this weekend for the Driving Force GT for only $99. So I used my employee discount and grabbed it.

I actually hopped into a race in iRacing this morning, but sadly had to park it about a third of the way through (had a chore I forgot about that had to be done). It was Legends at Lanier. Looked like a field of 12, and when we hit the backstretch for the first time there was a huge wreck in front of me that took out about 5 cars. Needless to say both the chat and voice were then filled with cussing and threats against whoever did what to whom. But after the "NASCAR moment" the race settled in and was going smooth. I was a lot slower than most of the others although I did have a cool little battle against one dude. I haven't done any setup on my cars at all, how much do you mess with that PK? And does it make a huge difference? I assume it will so I'll have to look at that.

Overall it was a good online experience (Tony Stewart-esque tirades not withstanding) and I can see it being a lot of fun. I also like how you can paint up your car, it made for a colorful field and reminded me of going to Bridgeport Raceway in Jersey all the time when I was a kid.

I do want to agree with PK about the track modeling. They really do seem to be accurate as hell. I remember a friend telling me how bumpy the straight at Lime Rock can be. Sure enough in iRacing it gets your wheel a shakin' (especially my nice new one!)

We'll see if I feel it's worth sticking with and paying for, but my surprised first impressions are favorable.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:43 am

Grant:

Nice pickup on the DFGT. That's a groovy price for a nice wheel.

I've found that the ovals can be a bit more hairy in terms of ethics and disputes than the road courses. The ovals are easier, frankly, so they attract less-skilled and less-tactful racers, in my opinion. Maybe that's why I enjoy the ovals so much in iRacing!

Seriously, I've never had a problem with courtesy on road courses in iRacing. A few dustups here or there on short-track ovals with the Legends, but less than I've seen in other online PC racing.

As for setups, I have found a few online for various cars that I like and have been helpful, especially on road courses. But many of the rookie races use fixed default setups, which I think is a great idea. It teaches you to focus more on driving and racing and less on setup.

How many times have you been in a rFactor room where a guy is slow on his first lap and starts begging other racers for a setup? Some guys treat setups as the magic bullet when the fact remains that they need to learn how to drive that particular car. I've been guilty of that in the past, for sure.

Let's try to hook up sometime in a practice session, Grant. I've added you as a Friend. I'm racing under an alias, Dan Skiver. He's the dude who let me use his comp subscription.

Add me to your Friends list!

Take care,
PK

P.S.: There are two schools of thought about how to drive the Legends at Lanier. One is to never use the brakes and just use throttle and lifting to control speed. That can be quick, but it also mangles the tires in a hurry. I prefer the other method, which is to keep my right foot on the throttle almost all the time, stabbing the brake quickly before corner entry while releasing about 70 percent of the throttle to get the car rotated into the corner and then slamming the gas once the car is straightened at the apex. That's a tricky method because you can lose the back end of the car if you stab the brake too hard or for too long, and it's also easy to jump on the gas too quickly and lose the rear end. But it's fast as hell when it works. I've run laps of 16.450 in practice and 16.555 in a race using that method. I have no idea how some of these dudes are running 16.1s and 16.2s! Regardless of the method, you will slide a lot in these cars. If you're not sliding in the Legends, you're not fast.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:11 pm

pk500 wrote:
GB_Simo wrote:Do you remember Total Immersion Racing? V8 Superstars isn't quite as good as that.
Oh, dear. That's a damning indictment if there ever was one. TIR was AWFUL.

Funnily enough, mate, I had your thoughts on TIR in mind when I wrote that. The game feels similar but somehow you're further disconnected from the car, your steering inputs being taken as a suggestion rather than an instruction. I was able to have at least a little fun with TIR, but I had none with the V8 Superstars demo.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:25 pm

Terry has just renewed his iRacing subscription. He blames me and hates me.

So now our DSP iRacing band has grown to:

Terry
Don
Grant
Pat Wood
Me

Fellas, we need to practice together some night and maybe try to jump into a race together. If we pick a race time and night, I think we could all get into the same Solstice or Legends race if we commit soon enough.

With races going off every hour, I think we could all get into the 11 p.m. (ET) race if we joined it around 10:05 to 10:10 (ET), for example. You can run practice laps while waiting or just step away and return a few minutes before the race. Or you can enter the qualifying session for that race at the bottom of the hour, too. Plenty to do to occupy the time between joining and racing.

Take care,
PK

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:34 pm

Actually when I went to do that, I saw that my subscription is apparently comp as well. It doesn't expire until 7/2010

Also I have a $500 "iRacing Credit" on my account. I'm not sure if I can use that to buy all kinds of tracks and cars, but I'll certainly be messing around with it tonight. I haven't touched it in a year, but I have a year free still left.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:40 pm

TCrouch wrote:Actually when I went to do that, I saw that my subscription is apparently comp as well. It doesn't expire until 7/2010

Also I have a $500 "iRacing Credit" on my account. I'm not sure if I can use that to buy all kinds of tracks and cars, but I'll certainly be messing around with it tonight. I haven't touched it in a year, but I have a year free still left.

Holy sh*t, how did you swing that? Very nice!

That iRacing credit can be used to buy cars and tracks. Hell, you can get the Cup car and damn near every oval and be in heaven now!

I still recommend the Star Mazda and Radical, and Road Atlanta and Road America for some big fun with right and left turns.

Way cool for you, dude!

Take care,
PK