OT: Racing 2009 (Spoiler Alert)

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:17 pm

That was scary as hell. Hopefully there aren't any fan injuries. It could have been much worse, for both Carl and the fans.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:09 pm

fletcher21 wrote:The first few F1 races were great entertainment. The race today was pretty damn boring. That track is not very exciting. Go BRAWN!!

I beg to differ. I thought today was a pretty solid race, for two reasons.

One, I really like the varying strategies created by the two tire compounds. Very interesting to see the Toyota go for the hard compound in the middle stint while everyone else stayed with super-softs.

Two, there were plenty of overtaking maneuvers, especially early. And you better enjoy them while they're here, because you're not going to see passing like this in a month or two.

Steve Matchett was right in today's telecast, as usual: It's almost impossible to pass a slower car if it has one of the trick diffusers. Trulli's Toyota created a nasty wake with its trick diffuser and was able to keep quicker cars behind it.

Once every car updates its diffuser to match those of Toyota, Williams and Brawn, overtaking will be just as tough as it was last year. In other words, the hard work of the Overtaking Working Group will be flushed down the toilet because the rules weren't written with enough attention to detail and enough analysis of possible interpretations.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:53 pm

That Edwards wreck was vicious. Glad to see him get out alright, and to hear that the injured spectators are apparently not seriously hurt.

pk500 wrote:Steve Matchett was right in today's telecast, as usual: It's almost impossible to pass a slower car if it has one of the trick diffusers. Trulli's Toyota created a nasty wake with its trick diffuser and was able to keep quicker cars behind it.

He might well be right, but I'm genuinely not convinced that it's exclusively the trick diffuser cars that are hard to pass. The cars behind Trulli were on super-softs when he was on mediums. When the roles were reversed in the latter part of the race, Trulli was no closer to Vettel's regular diffuser than Vettel had been to Trulli's trick one. Vettel wasn't crawling all over Hamilton earlier on either, in spite of his having a quicker car and Lewis not having a finished trick diffuser. Yes, Lewis has KERS but not once did he have to use it to fend off an attack.

Again, Matchett might well be right - Christ knows his technical knowledge is far greater than ours here - but if he is, why were the cars without trick diffusers not being followed more closely? The battles above were what the cameras concentrated on, but after those mad BMW-induced opening laps in the midfield, how often did we cut to a replay of an overtake down the field?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:06 pm

Simo:

No question that the KERS vs. non-KERS duels also discourage overtaking when the KERS car is in front. Exhibit A was the Piquet vs. Barrichello duel today.

But the trick diffusers create more disturbed vortices of trailing air by nature because of their curved design. It may not be the only thing discouraging overtaking, but it sure isn't helping.

Take care,
PK

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:44 pm

Hey guys. I've been away a while and I'm too lazy to search back through the forums. Can someone post the link to Adam's forums. I need to give them a visit? Thanks.

I enjoyed the start to the season but I have to say I found this race to be a bit of a sleeper. Yes, the strategies left us guessing until late in the race as to who would be the winner. But other than Button's move on Hamilton and Alonso's move on Trulli, I found the race to be rather dull.

For a considerable amount of time Rubens was able to keep his nose close to the rear of the car in front (Piquet - and of course not on the straights). But other than that, I don't recall too much of that happening all season. Ten years ago it seemed to be much more common, no?

As for my prediction about Nakajima's speed, well...

Then again, if someone dares to search the forums, you'll find I was a Button backer during the times when many thought he was washed up. And you have to say, every time he's needed to deliver the goods this season he's come up with the required laps. Rubens was a disappointment today. After switching strategies I thought he should have been able to get past the Trulli train in front of him until his final pit stop.

Regarding the Trulli Train: Forget about keeping the nuclear bomb away from Iran. The world must be absolutely certain that Trulli does not get his hands on a KERS device!

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:25 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX7RAvVhBJ0

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:26 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX7RAvVhBJ0

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:27 pm

pk500 wrote:But the trick diffusers create more disturbed vortices of trailing air by nature because of their curved design. It may not be the only thing discouraging overtaking, but it sure isn't helping.

No argument on the first part, but I still need to be convinced that it's a massive issue, though - like I said, there's got to be more to it when Vettel's non-trick Red Bull can remain untroubled by Trulli late on.

Smurfy wrote:Hey guys. I've been away a while and I'm too lazy to search back through the forums. Can someone post the link to Adam's forums.

No forum, mate, just a blog - http://petrolheadblog.com can be found in my sig. Views, comments and thoughts from all are encouraged.

You were indeed a Button-backer, though I distinctly recall your faith in him wavering last year. I'm not convinced Rubens will let him have things all his own way - consider China, where Rubens was the faster man in the dry - but certainly his start to the season has been excellent. I've completely forgotten, of course, that you thought Nakajima would do really well this year, just as I've forgotten that I too expected more than this from him.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:50 am

GB_Simo wrote:You were indeed a Button-backer, though I distinctly recall your faith in him wavering last year.

That's ringing a bell now. So my recollection is now like this: I was defending Rubens by saying he was doing well against Button and that I still rated Button highly. Okay, so I guess I wasn't a very enthusiastic Button defender after all. I don't think you can blame me for altering the story - There seems to be a pretty large bandwagon for me to jump on right now

I really like Rubens and I used to think highly of him. But he seems to be feeling the pressure now that Button has had the head start on him this season. I don't know if he'll be able to get his head back in the right place in time.

Oh, and don't count Nakajima out just yet

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:17 am

McLaren has been handed a 3 race ban which I think is a bit extreme. What I don't get is this statement from the FIA. Maybe you guys can explain it because it sounds to me like they will be banned if they screw up again within a 12 month period. If that's the case they are on probation.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74937

"McLaren has been given a suspended three-race ban for bringing the sport into disrepute after lying to stewards at the Australian and Malaysian Grands Prix."

"That penalty is a suspension of the team from three races of the FIA Formula One World Championship. This will only be applied if further facts emerge regarding the case or if, in the next 12 months, there is a further breach by the team of article 151c of the International Sporting Code."

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:59 am

If you keep up on NASCAR news or listen about NASCAR on Sirius Radio, then you certainly know the name of Charlotte Observer motorsports writer David Poole.

David died yesterday of a heart attack at age 50.

He was a superb journalist, not someone who just showed up to write about the races, toe the NASCAR line and go home until the following weekend. The guy was larger than life in a NASCAR press room, literally and figuratively. David's voice was one that NASCAR sorely needs, and now it's gone.

His final column was an excellent example of his analysis and reporting:

http://www.thatsracin.com/135/story/7980.html

Here's a collection of some of David's best work:

http://www.thatsracin.com/158

RIP, David.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:08 am

Rodster wrote:McLaren has been handed a 3 race ban which I think is a bit extreme. What I don't get is this statement from the FIA. Maybe you guys can explain it because it sounds to me like they will be banned if they screw up again within a 12 month period. If that's the case they are on probation.

That's exactly what it is. As long as McLaren don't breach the part of the sporting code relating to telling lies for their own gain at any time in the next 12 months, they will not be penalised. In effect, as long as they can avoid the temptation to come over all Pinocchio in front of the FIA's stewards, no more will be said on the matter.

It's a non-punishment, really, isn't it? Nothing extreme about it, in my eyes, but probably as much as it merited - McLaren made themselves look silly more than they did the sport, in my view.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:12 am

Rodster wrote:McLaren has been handed a 3 race ban which I think is a bit extreme. What I don't get is this statement from the FIA. Maybe you guys can explain it because it sounds to me like they will be banned if they screw up again within a 12 month period. If that's the case they are on probation.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74937

"McLaren has been given a suspended three-race ban for bringing the sport into disrepute after lying to stewards at the Australian and Malaysian Grands Prix."

"That penalty is a suspension of the team from three races of the FIA Formula One World Championship. This will only be applied if further facts emerge regarding the case or if, in the next 12 months, there is a further breach by the team of article 151c of the International Sporting Code."

Either this is a wrist slap, or there's more evidence out there that surfaced VERY recently, and the FIA didn't want to postpone this initial hearing.

I bet it's the former. Whoop-dee-sh*t.

Take care,
PK

johnvon314 · Post by **johnvon314** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:17 pm

pk500 wrote:If you keep up on NASCAR news or listen about NASCAR on Sirius Radio, then you certainly know the name of Charlotte Observer motorsports writer David Poole.

David died yesterday of a heart attack at age 50.

He was a superb journalist, not someone who just showed up to write about the races, toe the NASCAR line and go home until the following weekend. The guy was larger than life in a NASCAR press room, literally and figuratively. David's voice was one that NASCAR sorely needs, and now it's gone.

Yes, sad day for the Charlotte region losing such a talented and passionate writer. Poole was not afraid to take on the big boys at NASCAR right in their own backyard. His articles usually generated some spirited discussion in the comments section, but he also had the respect of drivers and fans even if there was intense disagreement. There will indeed be some big shoes to fill.

John

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri May 01, 2009 7:18 pm

Thoughts on the rule changes for 2010?

1) Refueling Ban

2) Budget Caps with flexibility in some technologies such as movable floors and no rev limits vs. no budget caps with strict limits on technology flexibility.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri May 01, 2009 7:34 pm

Rodster wrote:Thoughts on the rule changes for 2010?

1) Refueling Ban

Great idea. Saves dough, forces drivers to cope with changing fuel loads throughout the race. Also returns purity to qualifying, as we'll know which car is fastest in the sport in every session because everyone will start with full fuel.

Rodster wrote:2) Budget Caps with flexibility in some technologies such as movable floors and no rev limits vs. no budget caps with strict limits on technology flexibility.

Stupid idea. Creates a two-tiered series that essentially turns F1 into the American Le Mans Series. I love the ALMS, but this is F1, not sports-car racing.

Take care,
PK

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:25 pm

Wow, very sad news about David Poole. Definitely will be missed.

Also, I can't believe it was 15 years ago today that Ayrton Senna da Silva had his fatal crash.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:30 pm

I am all for the refueling ban. The sport was fine when there was no refueling, and it will be fine now that it is back in place. I think it adds a lot of cool possibilities in regard to tire strategy. It also gets rid of some of the risk of injury in the pits (fires, stuck hoses, etc.).

The budget cap idea is horrible. I do not buy the Mosley argument for the cap being put in place due to the world financial situation. The situation will pass in time, and it's not like the sport is going to be tremendously impacted by the crisis. Mosley saying "just look at Honda leaving" is laughable when used as evidence for the cap. I side with Ferrari on this matter and hope the budget cap is not implemented. Formula One is special in large part due to the ridiculous spending and technological innovation. The cap has so too many negative implications to be worth the risk of trying it.

I think there has been way too much tinkering with things the past couple years moving into the future.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:42 pm

DChaps wrote:Wow, very sad news about David Poole. Definitely will be missed.

Also, I can't believe it was 15 years ago today that Ayrton Senna da Silva had his fatal crash.

I have been reading Hilton's biography of Senna over the past few days. I urge fans of motorsport to read it if they have not done so already. I'm learning some stuff I never knew about this remarkable person and driver. The word "tragic" somehow does not seem like enough to describe the loss of Senna.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:49 pm

F1-live posted a nice article as Gerhard Berger remembers Aryton Senna.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 1206.shtml

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:25 am

I came across an interesting article in the Financial Times this morning. Mosley now says that F1 can live without Ferrari. It's a fairly lengthy interview, with some ideas to chew on. Apparently he is not even thinking about backing down on the budget cap issue.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/58314930-3678 ... abdc0.html

Given how "honest" F1 teams are, I think it will be rather comical to see the powers that be try to enforce the cap. Anyone want to make a wager on how long after the cap is instituted that McLaren are investigated and found guilty?

This will be a wet Nazi dream for ol' Max.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:04 am

OK, Moto GP fans, what's the secret to riding this Ducati?

Last year we saw the bike competing for the title with Stoner and nearly destroying a man's career with Melandri. This year Melandri's reminding everyone that he's actually not bad on a Kawasaki that very nearly didn't exist, while his replacement at Ducati, Nicky Hayden, can't keep up with either Stoner, Kallio or Gibernau, a man who spent the last couple of years not riding anything at all.

Why? The people on here who know about these things thought the Duke would suit Hayden's riding style...is it the bike, is it him, are the team incapable of running two competitive bikes, or what?

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:24 pm

I hsve no answer either. Everyone who's ridden the Ducati other than Stoner has been humiliated. What's even more baffling is that the Ducati team have gone out of there way to provide each rider with a bike that suits their riding style. And what's even more baffling still is that Stoner and Hayden get on quite well and still Hayden looks bloody awful on the bike. It's not Hayden's or Melandri's fault either. It's gotta be a bike that only Stoner can ride.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:58 pm

Rodster wrote:I hsve no answer either. Everyone who's ridden the Ducati other than Stoner has been humiliated.

Not true. Loris Capirossi had five wins and eight poles for Ducati from 2003-07, but all of the poles and all but one of the wins came on Ducati's 990 bike. Only the win in 2007 at Motegi came on the 800.

Ducati always has been known for its brutal torque exiting corners due to its desmosedici engine design, and something tells me that has been exacerbated quite a bit with the 800. The bike jumps all over the place on corner exit, even with the electronics. Melandri just couldn't wrap his head around the Ducati 800, and it appears Nicky can't either.

Like Rod, I'm pretty stumped. The Duc has brought two superb riders to their knees in short time, while Stoner continues to motor on it. That proves to me that Stoner is a truly special talent.

Nicky's injuries at Qatar were pretty severe, about as badly as you can be hurt and still ride. That guy is beyond tough. But he wasn't tearing up the track on the Ducati during preseason testing, so you can't blame the injuries.

It's a real mystery. Nicky still has time to figure it out, and nobody turns more laps in the paddock than him. But it sure looks like this season is falling into the Melandri Ducati black hole for Nick.

Take care,
PK

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sun May 03, 2009 3:28 pm

Quality Neckcar race last night in the 804

I am not a big Richmond fan, but that was a nice race. According to the tv crew, a lot of drivers really love that place. Seems like a nicely paved track, but a little short for my taste. Weird, since Martinsville is my favorite track. Martinsville is a true short track, RIR is somewhere in between. I was watching with my girlfriend's grandpa, who is a hardcore America #1 guy. He HATES the fact Toyota is in Neckcar. I think the parody is nice, but he says there is no room for "Jap crap" in his Nascar lol.. I think Honda could enjoy some success with an Accord Nascar. It might boost some sales to the 40 and under crowd.