OT: Racing 2009 (Spoiler Alert)

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:30 am

All part of one BC Ecclestone's plan to push the Aussies into staging a night race so that we can sleep in on race day, Dave. Could have been worse - had there been a cloudy day or a race stoppage it'd have got dark before the end.

The one thing I'm really, really struggling to understand about the late accident is exactly what Vettel did to merit a 10 place grid penalty for the next race. I don't see what he did wrong beyond trying to race for his position, and I was under the impression that they were encouraging that sort of thing.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:33 am

I read that Lewis went from last to 4th, nice skillz.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:08 am

Autosport is reporting that Jarno Trulli has been penalized and Lewis was given 3rd place.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74053

Gangrel · Post by **Gangrel** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:10 am

GB_Simo wrote:
The one thing I'm really, really struggling to understand about the late accident is exactly what Vettel did to merit a 10 place grid penalty for the next race. I don't see what he did wrong beyond trying to race for his position, and I was under the impression that they were encouraging that sort of thing.

Yes, I'm not sure why he should be penalized either? Perhaps he could have backed off in the corner, but Kubica pinched him in there quite good. We get the BBC feed here, and even the announcers said it was a 50/50 deal and Veittel had nothing to be sorry for.

I have to say, while there was no overtaking up front, it was nice to see movement in the middle of the pack. It's nice that, gasp, you can now slipstream and shoot around a guy!

So I hope this keeps up all year and adds some spice.

As for the super softs, as best as I can recall, nobody had any more then 4 or 5 good laps on those things.........

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:09 pm

Vettel got screwed. He never should have said on the radio that he was an idiot, because he wasn't. That was a 50-50 racing accident if there ever was one. Kubica never was clear in the corner.

Still, Red Bull is the looming colossus in F1 if the car proves to be durable, not Brawn. Vettel was MIGHTY impressive in a car without a trick diffuser. You know Newey will develop a trick diffuser that mates well with the car's aero package and provides a lot of downforce. If that happens, it could be check-out time for Vettel.

Very solid win for Button. The first legitimate win of his career, as Hungary 06 was a gift despite his strong driving in the wet. Lights to flag is VERY stout.

All things considered, this was one of the most impressive drives of Hamilton's career. That McLaren is not a top-four car right now, but Lewis drove the wheels off of it.

Very good season debut. Interesting and exciting. Roll on, Malaysia!

Take care,
PK

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:22 pm

GB_Simo wrote:All part of one BC Ecclestone's plan to push the Aussies into staging a night race so that we can sleep in on race day, Dave. Could have been worse - had there been a cloudy day or a race stoppage it'd have got dark before the end.

The one thing I'm really, really struggling to understand about the late accident is exactly what Vettel did to merit a 10 place grid penalty for the next race. I don't see what he did wrong beyond trying to race for his position, and I was under the impression that they were encouraging that sort of thing.

Ah yes, I seem to remember the Aussies refusing to make it a night race. So that'll be their cards marked then, as soon as that little twat can find some other Middle Eastern shithole to stage a race in with 80 spectators, while singlehandedly destroying the grand history of F1.

For our sakes, Bernie, why won't you just die ?

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:56 pm

davet010 wrote:
Ah yes, I seem to remember the Aussies refusing to make it a night race. So that'll be their cards marked then, as soon as that little twat can find some other Middle Eastern shithole to stage a race in with 80 spectators, while singlehandedly destroying the grand history of F1.

For our sakes, Bernie, why won't you just die ?

Come on Dave tell us how you really feel.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:23 pm

Just saw there is no Canadian GP. Wtf? I loved that track. Gotta be about $$$$$. Sad.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:37 pm

That is such a bullsh*t penalty on Vettel. Could he have just given Kubica the spot? Sure, but what's the point of that?

Having two very-different tire compounds is somewhat gimmicky, but it will be interesting to see how teams adapt to them as the year advances.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:20 pm

Quality race in Australia, as usual. That sun was brutal, though

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:36 pm

Dave wrote:Having two very-different tire compounds is somewhat gimmicky, but it will be interesting to see how teams adapt to them as the year advances.

It creates cool strategic options without being too artificial, I think. It's still four circles of rubber.

Tire strategy can really backfire, too. Rosberg was f*cked by Williams' tire strategy today, as he was a sitting duck during the closing laps after running super-softs for too long.

Take care,
PK

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:37 pm

Does any other racecar sound as nice as an F1 @ 18k rpm? Not for my money

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:20 pm

fletcher21 wrote:Does any other racecar sound as nice as an F1 @ 18k rpm? Not for my money

Many, in my opinion. F1 cars have an incredible sound, but they are REALLY tough on the ears in the flesh. It hurts; there's nothing symphonic about it in person. They are SHRILL as hell, but it's still a very good shrill.

I'll take a Matra-powered F1 car from the late 70s any day over today's F1 engine tones. Mario Andretti is right -- the Matra just sounds like power:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-5_HRttJ1PI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

Here's another engine note that's way sweeter than a current F1 car. Ari Vatanen climbing Pikes Peak in a Peugeot 405-T16:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DpoKHIIpqBE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

I'll also take a turbocharged CART engine from the early 90s over a modern F1 engine:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0orHQo57S9Q&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

Hell, give me a good, old-fashioned DFV Cosworth from the mid-1960s over today's F1 engine sound:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H9P0mhc2q48&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

Take care,
PK

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:25 pm

I'd say a Subaru Wrx Sti rally car sounds better than an F1, but sadly you won't hear one of those anymore. Great links, Paul. I enjoyed them. I can't imagine life without YouTube lol

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:32 pm

My favorites are in this order:

1) Modern F1 car
2) Mid 90's Turbo Cart cars
3) Nascar train at 190mph.

p.s. I might even start following the IRL if the cars sounded like those of the 90's Turbo CART cars.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:47 pm

pk500 wrote:
fletcher21 wrote:Many, in my opinion. F1 cars have an incredible sound, but they are REALLY tough on the ears in the flesh. It hurts; there's nothing symphonic about it in person. They are SHRILL as hell, but it's still a very good shrill.
...
I'll also take a turbocharged CART engine from the early 90s over a modern F1 engine:

Sitting through an F1 session at Indy where the cars rejoined the oval was a painful experience if there weren't fans around--the sound just reverberated off the stands and made for a painful practice session.

And it is probably because I grew up listening to them, I was also going to mention the turbocharged CART engines as one of my favorites.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:07 am

fletcher21 wrote:Just saw there is no Canadian GP. Wtf? I loved that track. Gotta be about $$$$$. Sad.

Might still go ahead if the Abu Dhabi circuit isn't ready in time, which is the last race of the season on 1 November. There's no French GP either, but that one's been struggling for a while...Magny-Cours is in the middle of nowhere.

So, Fletch, your original surmise is correct - first time without a GP in North America for a long time.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:59 pm

davet010 wrote:
fletcher21 wrote:Just saw there is no Canadian GP. Wtf? I loved that track. Gotta be about $$$$$. Sad.
Might still go ahead if the Abu Dhabi circuit isn't ready in time, which is the last race of the season on 1 November. There's no French GP either, but that one's been struggling for a while...Magny-Cours is in the middle of nowhere.

There's no way the Canadian GP would be run Nov. 1. It could be snowing in Montreal then, and the high temperature would be in the 40s F, at best. Not exactly suitable for tire grip or big tittays hanging out of tank tops in the grandstands.

Take care,
PK

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:07 am

Looks like Hamilton's been stripped of his points for the Aussie GP...it's a little difficult to decipher, but they've basically accused Hamilton and McLaren of fibbing to the stewards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 978186.stm

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:25 am

It appears the race stewards were harsh on several drivers, Vettel included. I read the story yesterday regarding McLaren's radio communications so this doesn't come as a total shock. I do feel bad for Hammy as he had one helluva race with a car that wasn't a top 5 finisher.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:37 am

Just once I would like to see a Formula One season without races or positions being decided by the stewards. One race in the books for 2009, and that dream already is dead.

That said, I'm glad to see McLaren lose a stewards' case when up against a team other than Ferrari. It's nice to see the "little guy" -- an odd name for a behemoth like Toyota -- beat The Ron and Mini-Me (Martin Whitmarsh) for a change.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:18 pm

I don't mind stewards being involved where it's necessary ('necessary' being the key word there, especially with reference to Vettel), but I do have an objection to their making a decision that, according to the FIA statement, was made without checking what Lewis had said to the media and without checking the team radio transmissions. In order to establish guilt you must first establish that you're being told the truth.

Make one decision, make use of all the available materials (his quotes were out there when the stewards met, and it's very difficult to believe the radio calls couldn't have been used too) and get it right first time, not four days later.

Edited to add: And while we're at it, tell us exactly what the McLaren bods said when questioned by the stewards. Suggesting publicly that they're liars without providing the evidence that backs up that suggestion...well, if someone did it to me I'd not be overjoyed.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:22 pm

It's getting sad to see F1 becoming such a circus in terms of rules enforcement and interpretation. The racing stewards in F1 are generally not trained much at all in what they are supposed to do. They vary from course to course, and in many cases they are clueless about the rules. It is amazing that a sport in which so much money pours in, so much inadequacy exists in respect to the stewards. Hamilton should have never even had to have been called in to discuss the matter with the stewards. If they did their job properly they would have looked at the telemetry, consulted over the radio transmissions, etc... and made an objective decision. Maybe FIFA refs can start asking forwards if they felt they were tripped in the penalty box rather than have refs make the call themselves. The incident in Melbourne was handle in a completely unprofessional manner, much like many incidents before it. It's sickening to see the sport become so Mickey Mouse in the way the races are handled.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:27 pm

Can someone give me the cliffs-notes version of what happened to Hamilton?

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:22 am

fletcher21 wrote:Can someone give me the cliffs-notes version of what happened to Hamilton?

Fletch, the FIA can get you some of the way there:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9113.html

Hamilton passed Trulli during the safety car spell at the end of last week's race, but did so because Trulli had lost control and gone onto the grass. Trulli subsequently repassed Hamilton, which isn't allowed, and was penalised for doing so. McLaren told the stewards that Hamilton had not been instructed to let Trulli back through - in other words, that Trulli had passed illegally of his own accord - and it's since been shown using McLaren's radio transmissions from the race that this was a lie, that Hamilton was told to let Trulli pass him.

Article 151c of the FIA International Sporting Code says, essentially, 'tell us lies for your own gain and we'll punish you.' McLaren told lies, the FIA punished them.

toonarmy wrote:It's getting sad to see F1 becoming such a circus in terms of rules enforcement and interpretation.

It's not becoming one. It's always been one, they're just a lot quicker to show us that these days.

PK, do you know any more about what's going on between Colin Edwards and James Toseland at Tech 3 than has already been mentioned in Tornado Warning?