RACE 360

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:25 pm

Zeppo wrote: Also, with this game's controller options, i'd also suggest tweaking those considerably before getting too deep into that slider hell that setup adjusting can become.

Already I've messed with L-stick sensitivity and dead zone, as well as turning my Throttle sensitivity down by half to 25% to increase how much I have to move it to get to 100% throttle. This adkistment has made a huge difference to my throttle control (I'd assume that at the default 50% the throttle goes to wide open when I've pulled it halfway). I'm sure to do the same for my brake trigger as well.

Zep...any other controller tweaks that might help me out of the box would be great! How did you tweak the L-stick and dead zone? Just to give me a starting point....The throttle tweak makes sense, so you don't spin out by gunning the throttle out of a turn.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:29 pm

JackB1 wrote:
Zep...any other controller tweaks that might help me out of the box would be great! How did you tweak the L-stick and dead zone? Just to give me a starting point....The throttle tweak makes sense, so you don't spin out by gunning the throttle out of a turn.

Jack, this is going to be a feel thing you'll have to adjust for yourself. I tweaked as well, but less than Zep did. Take a couple of laps, see how things feel, then adjust.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:39 pm

With open wheelers like the F3000 I set the steering sensitivity to around 30%. With cars like the BMW 320i I set it to 40% sensitivity.

J_Cauthen · Post by **J_Cauthen** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:54 pm

I've eagerly waited for this game to hit the 360 market since it was first announced, over two years ago. I dabbled with Race 07 on the PC enough to become interested it. My PC wasn't really up to the task of running smoothly so I never bought the full game, thinking the XBox 360 version would be along much sooner than it actually was.

Race Pro had an indescribable feel to it. It doesn't feel or look like an overproduced, cookie-cutter console game. I'm not as impressed with it graphically as I thought I'd be. In fact, I'm a little disappointed to see and feel the more frequent than expected frame rate drops. Still, I can't fault the game graphically because I think that when you combine its racing/driving experience with the graphics, it's an impressive package. The track environments are mostly "organic" looking, which impresses me.

I've only had about 2 1/2 hours of total racing time with it thus far due to my work schedule, and most of that was in career mode. The Mini's and Caterhams were grippier than I expected them to be, even in full Pro mode difficulty. The AI also pretty much laid down for me while I was going through the series races for their respective classes. Now that I'm in Radical, I'm seeing a major step change in the AI's performance and in the demand for proper throttle control. IOW, it's starting to feel more like the "sim" that I expected.

I haven't had time to set up my Microsoft FF Wheel yet, but I'll get around to it later this evening. I'm reading all sorts of mixed results on its performance, especially with the force feedback effects. I flat out suck with a controller, so force feedback effects or not, I'll be more competitive with a wheel.

One thing I can say though... this game has grabbed my attention and reignited my gaming passion. What's odd though is that I can't say this is happening because Race Pro is a phenomenal game, it just has a unique quality that makes me want to dig into it deeper.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:37 pm

J_Cauthen wrote:I haven't had time to set up my Microsoft FF Wheel yet, but I'll get around to it later this evening. I'm reading all sorts of mixed results on its performance, especially with the force feedback effects. I flat out suck with a controller, so force feedback effects or not, I'll be more competitive with a wheel.

I will be interested to see what your experience is with the MS Wheel and FFB once you have it setup. I have no FFB no matter what settings I change, and it is very frustrating. There is definitely a problem, but no one seems to have found the magic bullet. Here is what I am hoping to do this weekend:

A friend of mine who has been a PC sim racer for many years says he is definitely getting force feedback with his MS Wheel and Race Pro. I definitely am not. His version of Race Pro did not come from Gamestop like mine did (Gamestop had special code inside for Dodge Charger). This weekend he is going to bring his 360, his wheel, and his Race Pro to my house and we are going to go through the following steps:

1) He will race on my setup and I will race on his to determine that (a) he agrees that there is no FFB on mine and (b) I agree that there is in fact FFB on his.

2) Once this is established, we will verify that all the settings on our two machines are exactly the same.

3) Verify what version of MS wheel he has, and what version of MS wheel I have.

4) Once all this is established, we will switch wheels with each console. This will be big issue #1. If in fact my wheel then works on his machine with FFB and then his wheel does not work on my machine with FFB, we will have established that the difference is somewhere within the game installs themselves.

5) If my wheel does not work with FFB on his machine and vice versa, then we will have identified that it is an issue with the actual wheels.

If I keep the game, I will probably have to drive with the regular controller because the wheel just feels wrong to me. I would chalk it up to the wheel itself if it wasn't for the fact that it actually works just fine in Forza.

Terry, since FFB is working for you, can you answer the follwing:

1) Version of MS Wheel
2) Hard Drive Install or running from disc
3) In Game Controller Settings
4) System Settings for Controller Sensitivity
5) Did you get the game from Gamestop/EB (with code inside)
6) Xbox 360 Version
7) How FFB drivers were installed originally

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:26 pm

DChaps wrote: Terry, since FFB is working for you, can you answer the follwing:

1) Version of MS Wheel
2) Hard Drive Install or running from disc
3) In Game Controller Settings
4) System Settings for Controller Sensitivity
5) Did you get the game from Gamestop/EB (with code inside)
6) Xbox 360 Version
7) How FFB drivers were installed originally

1) Not sure where to find the version. I got it a week or so after they came out. There's a small barcode on the inside of the clamp that has "X809214-001" on it, and a larger number on the pedals, 05481000175639.

2) Worked both ways. First time I drove it was from disc and it worked. I raced with it from the start and it worked. Then I installed to disc and it hasn't had an issue in either instance.

3) Sensitivity 85%, analog sectors all at 0x, throttle sensitivity to 90%, brake sensitivity 90%, dead zones all at 0%, speed sensitive steering at 5% (wheel is a little sloppy at the top so I had to stop it from weaving down straights with 0 dead zone), and global steering lock at 13 degrees. I see no specific setting for FFB, oddly enough.

4) Controller settings on my profile for sensitivity is the default. Medium.

5) Mine was preordered on EBgames.com and shipped from them. I have the Charger downloaded and ran with it.

6) XBox 360 Elite. Console ID in the system properties is 005900109879

7) Think my Elite came with the drivers. I had to install with a PGR3 disc on my old box, but I didn't do anything on the Elite.

I must reiterate that it's not as pronounced as with PC sims. I don't have shaking if I hit something that's very strong, etc. It definitely DOES have a rumble if I hit a rumble strip, and the wheel eases up when I rise over a hill, etc. There's FF there, but it's not strong like a PC game. It doesn't make it fee "off" to me, though. At lunch I tested with the controller at Curitiba in the Caterham CSR 260 and managed a 1:23.6. I plugged the wheel in after work and ran a 1:22.1. So it's definitely a much more comfortable feel with the wheel for me, and I can assure you that there's feel there with FF. It's not just a basic rumble, but it's not quite "full" FF like you'd get with a PC game. It's very subdued overall.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:46 pm

TCrouch wrote:I must reiterate that it's not as pronounced as with PC sims. I don't have shaking if I hit something that's very strong, etc. It definitely DOES have a rumble if I hit a rumble strip, and the wheel eases up when I rise over a hill, etc. There's FF there, but it's not strong like a PC game. It doesn't make it fee "off" to me, though. At lunch I tested with the controller at Curitiba in the Caterham CSR 260 and managed a 1:23.6. I plugged the wheel in after work and ran a 1:22.1. So it's definitely a much more comfortable feel with the wheel for me, and I can assure you that there's feel there with FF. It's not just a basic rumble, but it's not quite "full" FF like you'd get with a PC game. It's very subdued overall.

Thanks for all the info Terry, very helpful. I do hear what you are saying, but I am positive I am getting nothing but tension. There is nothing going over rumble strips, nothing going over a hill. I can crank the wheel back and forth going down a straight and there is no weight transfer that I can tell, subtle or otherwise. In fact, the wheel just feels wierd, I don't know how else to describe it. That is why I hope that my friend is able to get on my setup and tell me if it's just me, or if what I am experiencing is actually different.

J_Cauthen · Post by **J_Cauthen** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:24 pm

DChaps wrote: I will be interested to see what your experience is with the MS Wheel and FFB once you have it setup. I have no FFB no matter what settings I change, and it is very frustrating.

I'll be glad to report in with my results, once I find my pedals! My wife decided to rearrange the house and in the process, my Microsoft wheel pedals disappeared. I'm frantically searching our "storage" room (looks more like a rummage pile) upstairs for the pedal base now.

Anyway, results coming as soon as I get it set up and running. Oh, I'm using an Elite, but I'll have to get specifics on it. This is a good idea though Don. A database like this could help not only us, but Simbin pinpoint the problem.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:06 am

New info just posted on the official Atari Forums regarding online issues:

http://forums.eu.atari.com/showthread.php?t=89128

Just got passed this info:

As a result of the high number of players trying to connect online to play Race Pro following the US release and with the European launch also this week, players might unfortunately experience issues such as:
- Disconnections
- Unrealistic timings
- Stability issues

Atari and Simbin are working hard to find solutions and will release a TitleUpdate as quickly as possible.
We apologize for this.

Thanks for playing RacePro

Atari & Simbin

New information from Atari (online problems)
Latest straight from Atari:

Here's a workaround to make the experience better, until the issues are definitely fixed:

If you join a server:

- Choose “Custom Match” rather than “Quick Match”

- Select servers with 6-8 player slots maximum

If you host games:

- Select a maximum of 6-8 slots for MP

Private sessions do work well, even with 12 players.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:10 pm

Now that people have played 2 poker nights and likely had several hours of single player play, is anyone thinking this game didn't meet expectations?

Still some concerns about career mode difficulty, online bugs, and steering wheel issues, but the core gameplay seems outstanding which is really what it's all about.

J_Cauthen · Post by **J_Cauthen** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:36 pm

Naples39 wrote: Still some concerns about career mode difficulty, online bugs, and steering wheel issues, but the core gameplay seems outstanding which is really what it's all about.

Many of my concerns are beginning to disappear. The career mode difficulty was insultingly easy with the Mini Coopers and the Caterhams, but I find that it has ramped up siginficantly since then. I'm in C license trials now and the Formula BMW's give me more than I can handle with a controller. I ran the first race at least two dozen times before I could manage the required top 3 finish. It wasn't just the fact that the cars require more handling skills; it was just as much attributable to the improved AI of the other drivers.

There is now a proven work around (http://forums.eu.atari.com/showthread.php?t=89171 for the FFB, and I'm sure that there will be a patch that will ultimately eliminate the need for the workaround.

I'm not as certain about the online performance however. I've heard some say that private rooms are find with 12 players. I know that I was in a session last night that was flawless, but it was limited to 6 players.

The more I play this game, the more I find to like about it. The two most disappointed aspects (besides those already mentioned) are the occasionally chugging framerates, and the lack of minor and moderate collision/contact noise. I can smack cars in front of and beside me, yet not get a hint of a collision noise. This not only makes the game lack an aesthetic dimension, it takes away aural position feedback information.

Overall, I'd have to say that the game at least meets my expectations. [/url]

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:39 pm

The game definitely meets my expectations and it is more accessible than I thought it would be.

One small thing that makes me happy is that the 'turn indicator arrows' (or whatever they're called) give me enough of an indication for a turn so I don't have to use the racing line.

I still need to do some controller tweaks though. I'm having a hell of a time catching any oversteer and end up getting way behind in my steering. Some of it is surely slow reflexes, but quick esses are killing me right now.

RustedWalleye · Post by **RustedWalleye** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:28 pm

I had a blast last night. This is the first time in quite a while I actually plugged the mic in to play online.

I like the fact that there is a fine mix of point on realistic, and also forgiveness at the same time. I never used my wheel much when I had it for the 360 so I thought I was going to suffer using the controller on this, being SimBin felt so realistic on the PC, but it was a very nice mix with the controller. I did not feel like I lost control oversteering, and correcting with the controller was much simpler then I thought it would be as well.

I definitely need to work more offline if it indeed unlocks more online, but even the offline is fun, even if it is a session of just turning laps. I feel offline is a lot like Terry must feel online, hot lapping.

Did notice that the disconnect issues can be worked around if you are not in a party prior to getting into the race. That must be the way to get more in a race. Seemed once I connected to the race then joined the chat all worked well.

Was great fun last night, especially the tight racing, and also leading Terry for 3 of 5 laps was a moral victory too!!

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:30 pm

RustedWalleye wrote:I definitely need to work more offline if it indeed unlocks more online, but even the offline is fun, even if it is a session of just turning laps. I feel offline is a lot like Terry must feel online, hot lapping.

On that topic, does anyone know if and when the career mode difficulty picks up? I'm getting through it to make sure I unlock the cars, but I'm having to treat it like the World Tour from ToCA 3, as if it were a showcase for the cars (or a means of making you use them all) rather than too much of a challenge. If that's how it is then I'll live with it, because I'm having a blast driving the cars and I'll see if I can get a bit more meat out of the championship modes, but I'd be happier if they get faster in the later contract levels.

Away from Career, the Very Hard AI are pretty decent in the slow stuff, really willing to give you a race and fight for their position, but custard in the quick stuff. No matter what car you run, you can gain stupid amounts of time through corners like turns one and two at Macau, the fast triple-left at Oschersleben and pretty much everything after the first two corners at Brands Hatch, so much so that in a pack race I'm finding I have to limit my pace to make sure I don't cause an accident.

The more I play this game, the more I find about it that irks me a bit. The AI being sharp enough to repass me on the exit of a turn after I've passed them going in, yet not being bright enough to drive around me even if they've had 5 seconds to spot me sat on the racing line after a spin, or to pull out and pass me if they've braked later than me following the same line. The high-speed collisions with other cars in which nobody loses control; if I'm lucky, I'll see a car be moved a little off-line but continue to track dead straight. The one tiny section of barrier exiting Macau's first turn that stops me dead if I so much as glance it in the wrong place while the rest of the barrier behaves normally. The shimmery effect on the back of the cars in third-person view; alright, I only use third-person view to check how beaten up my car looks, but it still smacks of a game they never quite got around to really finishing.

I admit, though, that the instant I start sliding around in one of the Caterham classes I forget about everything I've just said, because the driving is just sublime. Even if all I've done in this post is b*tch, I still don't think there's a better serious road racing game on the 360. I'm just nagged by the feeling that it could and should have been a little more polished offline. The antidote must be Live, so I really, really need to stay awake and stop getting drunk before these poker nights...

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:51 pm

Is there a way to use the gas on the buttons, or do you have to use the triggers for gas and brake? Using the triggers for the brake and gas sucks and is not natural to me

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:44 pm

GB_Simo wrote: The antidote must be Live, so I really, really need to stay awake and stop getting drunk before these poker nights...

Not sure I see the connection. . . between being drunk and avoiding poker night?

I am frustrated with the twitchy steering with the controller. It's much worse in some cars than others, and it really hurts in the long, large radius corners. I am still optimistic that with the available adjustments I can find that sweet spot, but then again it can easily become the kind of slider hell that we all know. I haven't found it yet anyway.

The twitchiness makes the cockpit view very distracting to me in the Formula BMWs in particular, because that wheel in the picture is going crazy sawing back and forth while I am trying to make subtle adjustments on a long corner. I seem to do better in the bonnet view because I'm not getting distracted by that wheel jerking around.

Watching the one replay I saved of the online activities last night, with the Minis at Brands Hatch, it seems to me a lot of guys are sawing back and forth quite a bit. I'd need to put TOCA3 back in but I seem to remember a lot less frustration with that kind of thing.

I'm still loving the game and adjusting to it more and more, so I don't want to scare people away. For me this is the natural successor to ToCA, and I love racing onlne. But this is the first game in a long time that has made me want to get a wheel, and I'm not sure if that's an indictment of the controller programming, or a compliment to the quality of the driving model.

EDIT: Ok, I'm realizing my big problem is that when you let go of the stick, the wheel snaps back instantly to center position, it doesn't drift back the way a wheel would if you let go. So, when I go too far and steer too much, when I try to let up to correct, it snaps right back to zero and the bouncing back and forth begins. It's really hard to find that perfect angle of the stick for the right amount of steering, so this snap back is a big deal for me.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:44 pm

Zeppo wrote: I am frustrated with the twitchy steering with the controller. It's much worse in some cars than others, and it really hurts in the long, large radius corners. I am still optimistic that with the available adjustments I can find that sweet spot, but then again it can easily become the kind of slider hell that we all know. I haven't found it yet anyway.

I agree. The twitchy steering with the 360 controller can be a little frustration sometimes. Funny thing is, it's smooth as silk in the PC version with my 360 controller / wireless usb connector. Hope they address this with a patch. I also agree its worse on some cars than others.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:53 am

You guys are really making me want to break out my wheel and try it...

...but just like XXXIV said I really don't want to be "that guy" if company comes over:)

Kissrox · Post by **Kissrox** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:32 am

macsomjrr wrote:You guys are really making me want to break out my wheel and try it...

...but just like XXXIV said I really don't want to be "that guy" if company comes over:)

I say screw 'em. You are who you are.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:36 am

Zeppo wrote:EDIT: Ok, I'm realizing my big problem is that when you let go of the stick, the wheel snaps back instantly to center position, it doesn't drift back the way a wheel would if you let go. So, when I go too far and steer too much, when I try to let up to correct, it snaps right back to zero and the bouncing back and forth begins. It's really hard to find that perfect angle of the stick for the right amount of steering, so this snap back is a big deal for me.

Threads like this one are why I love this place. The tip to increase tire noise has really helped with braking, and Zep's analysis on his issues with the steering model have helped me a lot as well.

My problems definitely stem from this--the bouncing back and forth is a big problem and usually ends up with my car in the gravel or wall since I can't keep up and eventually lose control. I think it is a combination of the snap back to center with the steering but a slow countersteer that have me losing control more than I'd like.

I might try going to a more responsive steering setting to see if it works. I am kind of like a poor man's virtual Fernando Alonso, I tend to jam the steering input from left to right with not much in-between modulation.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:40 am

Kissrox wrote:
macsomjrr wrote:You guys are really making me want to break out my wheel and try it...

...but just like XXXIV said I really don't want to be "that guy" if company comes over:)
I say screw 'em. You are who you are.

...I did say it in jest

...As back in the day that I had one(the day that will never return)...The closet is a great option

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:27 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Kissrox wrote:
macsomjrr wrote:You guys are really making me want to break out my wheel and try it...

...but just like XXXIV said I really don't want to be "that guy" if company comes over
I say screw 'em. You are who you are.
...I did say it in jest ...As back in the day that I had one(the day that will never return)...The closet is a great option

That's the number 1 reason I would never buy a steering wheel. Gamepad controller FTW !

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:48 pm

Zeppo wrote:Not sure I see the connection. . . between being drunk and avoiding poker night?

Good point, well made.

I've been running the default steering settings since I got the game and while it really is irritating to have that Formula BMW steering wheel bounding around every time the car goes around a corner, it's not putting me in the wall or anything like that. What I am finding is that it's very easy to over-correct a slide and start heading off the racetrack in the opposite direction, but it's generally not too much trouble to sort that out, though I can certainly see how it could become an issue for many.

What's becoming an issue for me is the quality control. In my last post I mentioned how when I skimmed a particular section of barrier at Macau, my car just stopped dead. It did bounce into the air too, but I thought that'd be something to do with the car's weight shifting under the strain of this strange phantom wall I'd hit. During the WTCC '87 stand-in race at Oschersleben on the D contract level, I had the same thing happen again when I struck another car mid-corner. Same thing again when I restarted; the car stops moving forward, jumps into the air and starts bouncing around in an exaggerated version of the bounces it'll do if you turn your steering wheel while waiting for the race to start. It's as if the car is attached to an invisible string that suddenly tenses if I clip something in a particular way, and it's bugging the hell out of me.

In the same restarted WTCC '87 race, I had the frame rate fall to something like 1 fps. I know it was something like that because the lap timer kept advancing in real time, updating itself every time a frame shifted. When after two minutes I'd moved about 10 feet, I gave up, restarted and the problem was cleared. I wouldn't mind quite so much if it was a budget release, but this thing is a full-price game in the UK and with all the delays it went through, surely it wouldn't have killed the developers to finish it properly before I spent my hard-earned.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:11 pm

As I foray deeper into the madness of sliderology, I am now messing with the three 'Analog sector' areas of the control options. I've lowered sector 1 to 1X instead of default 1.4X and it's helping a lot with twitchiness in the Formula BMWs.

Not helping enough, however, because I am really slow in those things even with semi-pro assists on at Oschersleben (lose the back end all the time without them). I can't figure it out, but I am losing lots of time somewhere. I just can't seem to drive the open wheelers.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:54 pm

fletcher21 wrote:Is there a way to use the gas on the buttons, or do you have to use the triggers for gas and brake? Using the triggers for the brake and gas sucks and is not natural to me

?