ESPN Baseball Impressions ...

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:11 am

snate wrote:My first impressions of online play are awful.

FatP has hinted that online play is a very small market and that they didn't devote to much time to it. It sure looks that way.

You can't change camera views online. No low wide. No pitcher view.

The main problem is your swing is delayed compared to offline. Many times I pressed swing and nothing happened b/c the ball was in the catchers mitt I guess. To hit a fastball you pretty much need to swing as he releases it.

I had no lag but the game disconnected in the 5th.

Not good.

At least it has been good offline.

Au contreras. mon ami! We easily spent 30% of our budget on online-related stuff (either directly on implementation, or working around problems that online introduced to other systems). Not sure if it was a bad day for Xbox Live, or what, but all the games I played on PartnerNet (the testing network) went well, and I completed probably 90%-95% of them. I'm not sure what the differences are in the retail network, but I hope that there isn't some inherent problem that only rears its head on the retail network.

snate · Post by **snate** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:40 am

I am starting to get a little worried about true aim. On allstar, with real pitching speeds, I am starting to get alot of hits and make alot of contact. There is no human contact slider nor a human hits (skill) slider though both exist for the cpu. There is only a human power slider.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:07 am

fatpitcher question,
do ballparks factor in to hitting, and specifically HR's

Is it easier to hit bombs in parks like Coors field, but harder in Dodger stadium? Is it easier to get hits in Coors field do the expanse of the outfield?

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:46 am

snate wrote:I am starting to get a little worried about true aim. On allstar, with real pitching speeds, I am starting to get alot of hits and make alot of contact. There is no human contact slider nor a human hits (skill) slider though both exist for the cpu. There is only a human power slider.

Contact is more difficult as you increase difficulty setting. So if you are on Legend and you are still making too much contact, then you're in trouble. This is one of very few things tied to difficulty that is not also a slider or option (if you turn custom sliders on, you are essentially negating whatever the difficulty is set to, aside from contact ease and the various options tied to difficulty, such as strike zone display, etc.).

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:48 am

bkrich83 wrote:fatpitcher question,
do ballparks factor in to hitting, and specifically HR's

Is it easier to hit bombs in parks like Coors field, but harder in Dodger stadium? Is it easier to get hits in Coors field do the expanse of the outfield?

There's no difference in air resistance, but bigger field will = more hits simply because more balls will be hit where outfielders can't catch them.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:25 am

Got a little further into my dyansty and a few impressions:

I (still) love the player info and how it includes potential ratings and the little thumbnail narratives. It makes finding prospets much more enjoyable than other games. One small glitch this year, though - sometimes the text extends past the right border of the box on the narrative. No big deal, but probably should be fixed for next year.

Trading AI is pretty good at least for those that I initiated. One of my first tasks was to unload the overpriced Thome and it was a little tough to find takers, but eventually I did manage to get rid of him.

It was bittersweet unloading him, since he hit my first dinger in franchise mode - an opposite field blast off a hanging curve. Very refreshing after the lefty bug in MVP.

Stats seem good after about 15 games simmed and played.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:43 am

I played a lot last night. I really suck at pitching right now, but I love the pitching interface. I think I simply throw too many strikes and therefore give up to many hits. I may actually turn the strike zone and cursor on for pitching a quick game simply for practice to get an idea of the strike zone. I also think I need to throw a lot more waste pitches. Also, I noticed that a lot of the HRs I give up are sliders or curves that fall over the meat of the plate, so I think I just need to learn how to pitch.

I like hitting as well. It feels similar to High Heat, although the batting animation is actually worse! But I can live with it. I like the strategy of both batting and pitching.

Fielding in this game is my favorite. Since I have slow reflexes, I truly need a speed burst to catch up the ball. And I love how a bad throw or a throw to the wrong base will hurt you as the AI will take the extra base every time. This is the only game that I enjoy fielding in and don't feel compelled to turn it off. It feels intuitive without being easy.

There is also a good feeling of randomness in the game - not as predictable as some games.

I think this game will probably turn out to be like NCAA College Hoops has for me. I will be able to play the hell out of it for a while and then it will start to get on my nerves. Then I take a week or two off and come back to it and have a blast for a while until the things I don't like start getting to me again.

The reason for that cycle of love/hate with Sega games is that most of the Sega sports line does some things great but the games also feel somewhat incomplete in one way or another. If Sega can ever get a game polished and complete, it would be a beautiful thing.

But this will be my baseball game this year - almost by default. I really like the pitching and batting interfaces and while sometimes the stat interface feels clunky (bullpen not on the quick menu) I can find what I need to know in order to make strategic moves.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:29 am

snate wrote:I am starting to get a little worried about true aim. On allstar, with real pitching speeds, I am starting to get alot of hits and make alot of contact. There is no human contact slider nor a human hits (skill) slider though both exist for the cpu. There is only a human power slider.

Same here snate.

I started a 20 game Season with the Mets on All Star, no slider changes.
1st game was vs the Pirates. Lost 10-7, Piazza had 3 bombs. Both teams had LOTS of hits. I get the feeling that the more I play, the more I feel the CPU cant struck me out unless it REALLY fools me. I guess I will end up trying Legend at some point. Of course, Mets pitching sucks so the Bucks pretty much had their way with every pitcher I threw at them. I did K the CPU a couple of times wich is good since I couldn't in my first 3-4 games.

Just got to work and can't wait to get home to keep playing it. FUN factor is very high.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:35 am

Im play with the Whites Sox on All star and Im getting shredded.

I got a split in KC to open the season in two relatively low scoring games then I went to the Bronx and all hell broke loose.
With my 3-4-5 starters going in the first 3 of 4 I got blasted bys cores of
10-0
16-4
12-1
Then I got some relief from Loaiza losing the finale 6-2....OWWWWWWW

All Star is hard. Having to face Jeter,Arod,Williams,Giambi,sheff,Posada, matsui(not in order..Im shell shocked) was a nightmare.

I think I need to tone it down to pro to get used to pitching. Hang or groove anything and you are dead.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:44 am

GridIron_Assasin wrote:
I think I need to tone it down to pro to get used to pitching. Hang or groove anything and you are dead.

True, doesn't matter the opponent. Pirates had a field day with my relievers last night.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:09 am

I am wondering about playing with the AI pitching sliders at some point to see if I can make it harder to hit.

I don't see this as a huge problem, but it will keep this game below High Heat status. All I can say about hitting in High Heat was that after playing the game for 5 years I still couldn't hit the damn offspeed stuff even when I was expecting it! If I went looking fastball in HH and got a breaking ball, I was frotted and flucked.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:08 am

Guys, great game. Thanks to everyone for answering my questions yesterday. I picked it up right after work and honestly, it was the first baseball game that I played back to back to back games. That's saying a lot. I agree about the randomness. Each game feels different. I won't rehash all the positives everyone has said, but there are a few things that kind of baffle me and make me say "OMG".

The rosters are absolutely atrocious. There are around 8 players on the Cardinals that I don't even recognize. I don't even think they are minor leaguers either. They seem to be made up names. There's no possible way I can play a season until this is remedied. Anyone else finding their rosters to be way off?

Pitching in this game is such a refreshing change from ASB, MLB, and even MVP. I actually walk batters unintentionally. However, what kind of has me shaking my head is the velocity of some of my pitchers. Woody Williams shouldn't consistenly be hitting 91 and 93 mph on his fastball. Also, Simontache rarely hits 90 mph on his fastball but he has no problem blowing it by hitters.

The AI pitchers seem to at times take an eternity to throw the next pitch. However, I do like the delay they take when a runner is on base. Sometimes they'll pause for a brief second and other times it seems they take a few seconds. Nice.

Can't help but notice the pretty ugly player models. Some of the players look like they're wearing an extra large cup. Their wives and girlfriends must be very happy.

The uniforms are alright, but they appear to be painted on. Especially the pants. Man, do they look tight. These guys would be mauled if they walked into a gay bar.

Sure would be nice to see dirt and grass stains on the uniforms.

Crowd reaction is less than stellar. Cory Patterson who smacked 2 homers off me came out for a curtain call on his second home run. The Cubbie fans must have had their back turned towards the couple making out because nobody acknowledged Patterson. MVP by far takes the cake in regards to crowd reaction. Why is it so difficult to work in chants, excitement into a game? Seems the audio part would be the easiest part to upgrade. Oh well.

While I loved Hudler when he played for the Cardinals, I can see him getting on my nerves over the course of a long season. Can't understand why Sega decides to cut out his commentary with a press of a button. I realize I'm trying to breeze through the game, but it still would be nice to hear all that he has to say...even though he sounds like he's commenting on a Monster Truck race.

I wish something more could be done with the helmets. Many times it looks like the "bill" of the helmet has been cut off...especially when they're standing on first base.

Pujols batting stance just looks awkward. Then again, it doesn't even remotely look like him. He's one of baseball's studs and it's a shame he looks nothing like himself. On a side note, Matt Morris looks great this year. Last year, he looked like a bad nightmare.

These are nitpicks. However, they really shouldn't have been glossed over. There is so much that is incredibly right with this game, that it is a shame some things weren't taken seriously enough.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:24 am

The roster issues don't really bother me that much since they will be fixed either by Sega or the fan community. No doubt most are the result of the screwy licensing situation this year.

On the topic of nitpicks, here's another - I hate how guys don't run out most outs at first. If it's not close they'll stop on a dime and head back to the dugout. Great thing to teach the kids ;(

snate · Post by **snate** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:58 am

If I consider moving up to legend to make hitting more difficult, I will need to seriously play with the CPU AI hitting sliders, b/c on Allstar the CPU also seems to be getting too many hits and making too much contact.

Fat P - Can you tell me how much the sliders do? In other words, if I am on legend and I lower the AI contact or skill slider all the way to 1, would that make that attribute equivalent to a lower level - Allstar, Pro? Or does it not work that way?

Also do you have any particular settings that you prefer?

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:23 pm

snate wrote:It is not random - your actions influence the result. Swing under the ball and you hit a fly. Swing early and you pull the ball.

I would think it tends to take a bit of the "control" away from the user, and makes it more random."
Anyone who has ever stepped in a batters box before knows that no matter who you are, you do not "control" where the ball goes. You try to influence the result with your swing.

Very true. I played hardball for many years (softball is entriely different). You react to the pitch, and use you hand/eye coordination and reflexes to try and get the ball on the ball. Sure, you can try and swing down or up on a ball, but mostly you're conncerned with making cood contact. If hitters could control the placement of their hits like in MVP, they'd be batting .500 not .250.

In summaary, ESPNs method is good.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:35 pm

matthewk wrote:Very true. I played hardball for many years (softball is entriely different). You react to the pitch, and use you hand/eye coordination and reflexes to try and get the ball on the ball. Sure, you can try and swing down or up on a ball, but mostly you're conncerned with making cood contact. If hitters could control the placement of their hits like in MVP, they'd be batting .500 not .250.

In summaary, ESPNs method is good.

Although ESPN's method might work better for a video game, I tend to think MVP's is probably the most authentic. In my experiences playing baseball, I don't see a pitch coming, then say to myself, 'it's low and away so I'm gonna try to swing my bat to the lower outside quadrant of the strike zone." Your hand-eye coordination and BP training take over and the contact part of hitting a ball is half timing and half instinct. The only conscience decision I ever remember making at the plate is, 'okay, the pitch is outside so I'm going to try and keep my hands back and drive the ball to right,' which I think is what MVP is going for. The same would apply for inside pitches (really trying to turn your body on it), or if you see a fat pitch that's waist high (you think I'm gonna try and crush it long by hitting the lower half of the ball or swing with a slight uppercut more than usual).

Thus far in my video game experience however, I've found HH zone style hitting to yeild more satisfying results, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's more realistic IMO.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:42 pm

I understand what you are saying, but if you have see a pitch that's low you don't think to yourself "I'm going to swing my bat like a golf club because I'm trying to hit the ball in the air". You go after the ball, which usually results in a grounder, because you are going down for the pitch. Someimtes you will get under it.

If MLB hitter could control the ball like MVP, you wouldn't have pitchers trying to pitch low to induce ground balls. It would be usueless because the hitters wold be able to dictate a fly ball anyways. It just doesn't work that way.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:14 pm

Ok, you guys got me. The Scrooge McDuck of baseball videogames is going to head out and pick it up.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:15 pm

This is getting really off-topic from ESPN, so I'll shut up about this after this post, but I disagree. I think there are a number of power hitters in major leagues who absolutely try and golf the ball up in the air when it's low occasionally. A contact guy will just go wherever with it, but if someone's up there to drive the ball, and perhaps misreads a low splitter as a fastball they want to drive, they will drop the bathead midswing to compensate and the end result will be a golf-like attempt, usually resulting in weak contact, be it a groundball, popup or lazy flyball depending on how accurate the compensation was. Isn't that what happens in MVP when you try and hit a low pitch holding up? That's what happens to me anyway. Likewise, the more common contact-oriented swing will go with that low pitch and usually result in a hard ground ball, both in real life and in MVP. I still don't see where MVP is going off-track here.

Lockdown · Post by **Lockdown** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:47 pm

Actually, I am enjoying your little sub-conversation Naples and Matthew. It is constructive and civil and educational, even though you slightly disagree with each other.

And, this is even more interesting, because ESPN adds something to the zone hitting it that you can swing more for contact or more for power with the 2-button hitting. (and no, this has nothing to do with whether or not 2-button hitting or 1-button hitting is better). I always assumed that when you hit for power, you were simulating the batter moving his hands on the bat and swinging slightly different to try to induce a more powerful swing. I'm not sure how this exactly works in relation to zone hitting, but I do think the concept is good, and certainly interesting to talk about in a bit more detail.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:50 pm

Lockdown,
I agree with you and like the fact that they tried to differenciate between the two types of swings but I have one problem with the power swing. You can still check your swing. I'm sorry, but when you see a guy take a power cut in baseball there's no way in hell he's going to be able to pull up short.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:53 pm

I don't necessarily mind the concept of a power swing in baseball video games, but I have yet to play a game that punishes you enough for using it.

You can usually power swing all day with good results.

Haven't tried it on ESPN this year yet, though.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:07 pm

GridIron_Assasin wrote:Im play with the Whites Sox on All star and Im getting shredded.

I got a split in KC to open the season in two relatively low scoring games then I went to the Bronx and all hell broke loose.
With my 3-4-5 starters going in the first 3 of 4 I got blasted bys cores of
10-0
16-4
12-1
Then I got some relief from Loaiza losing the finale 6-2....OWWWWWWW

All Star is hard. Having to face Jeter,Arod,Williams,Giambi,sheff,Posada, matsui(not in order..Im shell shocked) was a nightmare.

I think I need to tone it down to pro to get used to pitching. Hang or groove anything and you are dead.

Yeah, I'm getting owned on all star, too. I'm going to go back down to pro and play a few games and maybe adjust a few sliders. I give way too many HRs on ALL star.

Lockdown · Post by **Lockdown** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:10 pm

Scoop-

Maybe you are right. I guess if you assume that the power swing means "swinging harder" along with re-positioning the hands and such, then it would be near impossible to check. Hmmm.....

I wonder if the game penalizes you in other ways for choosing to go for a power swing... like maybe your contact attribute goes down by 20 points or your propensity to strike out attribute is raised by 10, or something like that. That would be better than nothing I guess.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:15 pm

The cpu just hits too many homeruns on any level compared to the number or runs they drive in with hits. I got quite good at pitching last year and I am hitting enough corners but too often they make solid contact on strikes. Thus, I lowered that cpu power slider and things are much better.