OT: Elections/Politics thread, part 5

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RobVarak
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Post by RobVarak »

Brando70 wrote:
webdanzer wrote:You lost some of McCain there, Jack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goaj5V4tZoc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqoSyKsAPw

Oops, and Obama was cut off too:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXKaAQ-6BiU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkBQf4FJi-o



And yes, this was great to see and hear.
Those were hilarious. McCain was on fire and had me laughing almost the whole time.
I thought McCain was funnier as well, but I wrote it off to my own bias. But the consensus among my Obama-supporting friends was that McCain's stuff was funnier. I do think my favorite line of the night was Obama's though, when he mentioned that his middle name was given to him by someone who never expected him to run for President. :) I would love to know who wrote those. .
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Post by RobVarak »

Naples39 wrote: What better reward is there then after leading a successful career than to be able to provide your children and your grandchildren with a better situation.
Getting yourself elected to Congress to feast off the teat of the American taxpayer? :)
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Post by GTHobbes »

I liked Obama's line after talking about cross-dressing Rudy..."that's some tough primary competition you had there, John." :lol:
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Post by XXXIV »

Too bad for McCain that he is better than Obama at stand up than at debating....
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Post by Brando70 »

RobVarak wrote:I thought McCain was funnier as well, but I wrote it off to my own bias. But the consensus among my Obama-supporting friends was that McCain's stuff was funnier. I do think my favorite line of the night was Obama's though, when he mentioned that his middle name was given to him by someone who never expected him to run for President. :) I would love to know who wrote those. .
McCain, frankly, was awesome. I know that he had writers, but his delivery was spot on. The ACORN joke was a great dig, and the joke about Joe the Plumber having seven houses to work on showed some nice self-deprecation.

Obama started off a bit slow and his delivery wasn't as strong -- he seemed a little nervous. But the Giuliani jokes were terrific and the history nerd in me liked the joke about McCain palling around with Alfred Smith before Prohibition.
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Post by Jackdog »

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YTyAuVnvklE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>
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Post by TheHiddenTrack »

By any means necessary?

...right?
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Post by Jackdog »

The media criticizes the Republicans for not wanting to stick to the issues (i.e., going after Obama's connections with Ayers, Wright, Rezko, ACORN, etc. instead of talking about the economy), yet they're perfectly fine with attacking Joe the Plumber instead of sticking to the real issue, which is Obama's redistribution of wealth plan that Joe mentions (aka Socialism). WTF??

Here is the main gripes Obama supporters have with the guy:

Not named JOE (It's his middle name)
Not an independent (So?)
Not paying his taxes(He owes $1,200 in personal income taxes. I still owe over 15,000. Big f*cking deal)
Not planning to buy a business( He does want to own his own business one day. That's why he asked the damn question.)
Business isn't for sale and it doesn't make anywhere near 250k/year. (So fu*cking what? He was approched by The Messiah and asked a question reguarding his personal plans for the future.
Not a real Plumber. (He's not registered to operate as a plumber in Ohio. He does plumbing work for A.W. Newell Corp.)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 13J6JV.DTL

What a f*cking joke! Attack an average citizen because he made Obama look bad. Its so tranparent, did they go after the guy that yelled at Palin in a pizza shop and made her look bad? No he was a constiuent.

Here's some answers from around the net:

THE RIGHT
Attacking "Joe the Plumber" is much easier than addressing the question he asked...

The question asked is what matters, not the person asking the question. Insulting "Joe the plumber" to distract from the question asked and the answer received does NOT change the FACTS.

The FACT is Obama will raise taxes on any business grossing over 250k a year (which is NOTHING for a company, most companies make MUCH more than this), which will not only hurt the employer, it will also affect the employees he has working for him. An employer will recoup his losses through increased taxes by raising the cost of goods and services to American consumers, and by offering his employees less pay, fewer hours, reduced benefits, and/or fewer employees...this will affect MILLIONS of Americans.

My father had a small restaurant with about 10 employees that grossed about 500K a year...in his best year, he actually CLEARED about 60k (but since he GROSSED over 250k, he's in Obama's higher tax bracket)...not rich by anybody's standards...except Obama's.
They are plenty embarrassed that they gave an American worker who does not worship The One a chance to speak for us. They are going for him with a vengeance, I'm surprised that they don't check through his garbage to find dirt on the poor guy. He just said out loud what the rest of us are thinking.
The media is working overtime to discredit any source that will stand in the way of an Obama victory.
Because Joe hit a nerve.
McCain saw it,
I saw it.
A lot of people saw it.
Watch the polls, though they mean nothing, they DO mean something to the fanatics who think polls determine who is actually winning.
McCain is gaining in the stupid polls, so what does this spell for them?
"STEAL!!"
Like the majority of Obama supporters on this site, there is a certain pervasive "pack mentality" of those who back and support Obama. At the first mention of any displeasure over Obama and/or his "policies", they attack and tug and worry like dogs over a bone.
Here's the account of a woman who was reported to the FBI for her disapproval of Obama, by an Obama campaign worker. This happened in Lufkin, Tx, not far from where I live. Though we are used to rough politics in Texas, this is really pushing the envelope in trying to instill fear and quieten the opposition.
http://www.lufkindailynews.com/news/cont...
Strangely, when I asked a question about this, actually believing ALL Americans would find this an affront, I instead got several replies actually defending the action of the campaign worker.
Go figure.

THE LEFT
McCain mentioned him 22 times in the debate. Obama mentioned him 4 times. McCain based his economic plan explanation around this man. Turns out the man is a total fraud.

He owes &12,000.00 in taxes
He is NOT a licensed plumber
He will actually receive a tax CUT with Obama's plan (according to Joe's own words)
He does not make $250,000.00 a year

McCain looks completely foolish using this guy for his campaign. He saw a way to stick it to Obama and, like everything else, it backfired. He brought Joe to the media and the media exposed him using "real issues". Joe isn't being attacked, McCain's shameless use of this man started it all.

Joe would actually benefit from this so called "redistribution of wealth" That is embarrassing for the McCain campaign.
Because McCain brought it up. When someone says "hey, look at me!" the natural response is to find out where the holes are.

With Ayers, ACORN, etc., Obama isn't the one bringing it up.

This was what hurt Kerry with the Swiftboaters. He's the one the brought up his military record and made it his top talking point. So that's where they went after him.

I do agree. It's silly. But since McCain has asked you to put Joe ahead of the issues, as a McCain supporter, I'd think you'd be happy for that.

In other words, if Socialism was the real issue, McCain should have blasted him specifically on that. But he chose to make this about a single person. Someone that he'd not even minimally checked out before making him the cornerstone of the 3rd debate.
He's being attacked because--besides his racist attempts to smear Obama with the lies you mentioned--he's a fake.

First--he's not a licensed plumber
Second, he doesn't make $250K a year--he'dget a tax cut if Obama's plan goes forward
Third, he isn't buying any business like he claims because he doesn't have the qualifications
Fourth, he's a deadbeat who won't pay his taxes
Fifth, his name isn't even Joe, it's Samuel

In short: he's a typical example of the McCain/Palin campaign: a liar and a fraud.
Joe the plumber is an easy target. He is a liar and basically what he said to Obama was a big fat lie. He claims he is not buying the company because under Obama's plan he would be taxed too much. If he would make 270 to to 280 under Obama's plan he would get a tax cut for everything under 250K The tax increase would only be on the income over 250K and would amount to $600.00. So he is not going to make 250K instead of the 40K he is making now....because he can not pay $600.00 more in taxes....give me a break.

EDIT and we are talking personal INCOME taxes not GROSS business income. Show me where in his tax plan it says that. All taxes are based on NET. NET or PROFIT...how in the world can taxes ever be based on GROSS sales.
Well, Joe (aka Sam) is not a licensed plumber. He is not buying his boss' business. He doesn't like taxes so much he doesn't bother paying them.

In other words, every issue he brought up is bogus. That's why it's important.
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Post by Jackdog »

TheHiddenTrack wrote:By any means necessary?

...right?
???
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Post by RobVarak »

Good points, Jack. Jim Treacher summarizes the situation a bit more succinctly:
The whole "He's not a licensed plumber!" non sequitur is really fantastic.

So, if you happen to be standing in front of Obama when he publicly reveals his socialism, what does the media do? Demands to see your papers. That's just delicious, is what that is.
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Post by XXXIV »

RobVarak wrote:Good points, Jack. Jim Treacher summarizes the situation a bit more succinctly:
The whole "He's not a licensed plumber!" non sequitur is really fantastic.

So, if you happen to be standing in front of Obama when he publicly reveals his socialism, what does the media do? Demands to see your papers. That's just delicious, is what that is.

:lol: ... They have really dropped any semblance of objectivity.
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Post by Feanor »

Naples39 wrote:
Feanor wrote:If an economy needs to be fiscally stimulated to avoid a bad recession or even a depression setting in, then tax cuts for everyone are not the most effective way of doing it as a significant percentage of the money will be saved.
What? Tax cut money will be saved but stimulus money won't be saved? I don't follow.
Tax cuts and stimulus rebates that go to every tax payer will be saved at a higher rate than tax cuts and rebates that are aimed at the poor who spend a higher percentage of their income.

Like I said, if you just need to stimulate consumer spending in an emergency situation then there are more effective and less expensive ways of doing it than across the board tax cuts and rebate cheques.
Last edited by Feanor on Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Jackdog »

XXXIV wrote:
RobVarak wrote:Good points, Jack. Jim Treacher summarizes the situation a bit more succinctly:
The whole "He's not a licensed plumber!" non sequitur is really fantastic.

So, if you happen to be standing in front of Obama when he publicly reveals his socialism, what does the media do? Demands to see your papers. That's just delicious, is what that is.

:lol: ... They have really dropped any semblance of objectivity.
:lol: :lol: :lol: About 5 months ago.
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Post by Feanor »

Attacking "Joe the Plumber" is much easier than addressing the question he asked...

The question asked is what matters, not the person asking the question. Insulting "Joe the plumber" to distract from the question asked and the answer received does NOT change the FACTS.

The FACT is Obama will raise taxes on any business grossing over 250k a year (which is NOTHING for a company, most companies make MUCH more than this), which will not only hurt the employer, it will also affect the employees he has working for him. An employer will recoup his losses through increased taxes by raising the cost of goods and services to American consumers, and by offering his employees less pay, fewer hours, reduced benefits, and/or fewer employees...this will affect MILLIONS of Americans.

My father had a small restaurant with about 10 employees that grossed about 500K a year...in his best year, he actually CLEARED about 60k (but since he GROSSED over 250k, he's in Obama's higher tax bracket)...not rich by anybody's standards...except Obama's.
Isn't this guy doing the same thing Joe the Plumber did, confusing Gross Sales with Taxable Income?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home
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Post by matthewk »

JackDog wrote:
TheHiddenTrack wrote:By any means necessary?

...right?
???
Glad I'm not the only one. I thought maybe he posted in the wrong thread by mistake.
-Matt
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Post by RobVarak »

The editor of the Claremont Review of Books wrote a long but very interesting analysis of Obama's writing and speeches in an effort to get a big picture look at Obama's politics.

I found it very interesting. In part, I'm sure, because he re-affirms somethign I've said repeatedly about Obama being a reaction to Clintonite centrism but also because it makes some fascinating linguistic and historical comparisons.

The article is horribly formatted, but well written and worth a few minutes of your time.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... obama.html
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Post by JackB1 »

Just a heads up....

Sara Palin is supposed to make a cameo on Sat Night Live tonite.
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Post by macsomjrr »

RobVarak wrote:The editor of the Claremont Review of Books wrote a long but very interesting analysis of Obama's writing and speeches in an effort to get a big picture look at Obama's politics.

I found it very interesting. In part, I'm sure, because he re-affirms somethign I've said repeatedly about Obama being a reaction to Clintonite centrism but also because it makes some fascinating linguistic and historical comparisons.

The article is horribly formatted, but well written and worth a few minutes of your time.
...if you're an ultra conserv and enjoy reading periodicals that cater to that particular line of thinking:) I wonder if Palin is a subscriber;)
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Post by RobVarak »

macsomjrr wrote: ...if you're an ultra conserv and enjoy reading periodicals that cater to that particular line of thinking:) I wonder if Palin is a subscriber;)
Well it's not like either I or the article itself suggested that it was anything but an opinion piece.

If someone can't enjoy reading an opinion that differs from his or her own then that's just sad, really. Pardon me for suggesting that it might be of interest.
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Post by macsomjrr »

RobVarak wrote:
macsomjrr wrote: ...if you're an ultra conserv and enjoy reading periodicals that cater to that particular line of thinking:) I wonder if Palin is a subscriber;)
Well it's not like either I or the article itself suggested that it was anything but an opinion piece.

If someone can't enjoy reading an opinion that differs from his or her own then that's just sad, really. Pardon me for suggesting that it might be of interest.
Dang this thread gets peoples knickers in a twist! Seriosuly though I was more making a funny than really criticizing your post and the article Rob. I'm sure it is very good:)

You're still gonna pass me the ball when I'm open right??? :D
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Post by RobVarak »

macsomjrr wrote: You're still gonna pass me the ball when I'm open right??? :D

Judging by our play the last several nights, nobody is really open much :)
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Post by Brando70 »

I will support any candidate that promises a moratorium on FrankTV commercials.
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