OT: Elections/Politics thread, part 5

[GTHobbes]

If you truly hate the rich then you truly hate both sides of the asle.

Who said anything about hating the rich? I've got a lot of wealthy friends and many, like myself, are willing to pay more taxes if it means that McCain/Palin don't get in and drag this country down even further. I've also got a lot of republican friends, but at least most of them are willing to admit that they don't want to see Obama win because they don't want to pay anymore than they already do. I can't blame them for that, and at least they're honest about it. I just don't think we need 4 (or eight) more years of many of the same policies we've had during W's term.

It's the rich repubs who never really had to work a hard day in their life, yet don't want to cut the "poor" a break, that I can't stand. And it's the "poor" repubs who don't understand that Democrats like Obama actually WANT to cut them a break that I don't understand. Neither of my parents ever made a dime more than $20k a year in their working lifetimes, yet they stayed registered repubs. In their case, it was because they were devout catholics and could never get behind a candidate that was pro-choice. Also, when I was growing up, people always said that Democrats were the ones who wanted to raise people's taxes. Now there's a democratic candidate who wants to cut taxes for 95% of the people, but "poor" repubs are complaining that it's not fair to the rich. I know now that there's nothing I (or anybody else) could ever say to change their vote to the democrats' side, and I'm coming to just accept it.

[GTHobbes]

And you're an undecided voter...yeah, sure.

LOL Teal. Someone just got busted, assuming anyone believed his 'undecided' claims in the first place.

Even us independents have to make up our mind sooner or later. Mine was made up after the 3rd debate, and the 4th one did absolutely nothing to change it.

[XXXIV]

LOL Teal. Someone just got busted, assuming anyone believed his 'undecided' claims in the first place.

That person does not exist.

[matthewk]

Also, as an aside, I have to say that posting in these threads in soul-sucking enterprise. Most days I find myself thinking 'why am I even bothering', yet I keep coming back.

I know the feeling. The reason I keep responding is not because I feel it will get those I disagree with to "see the light", so to speak. They are never going to admit to being wrong, even if they know they are.

If I argue a point, it's more for the people out there who don't have a set in stone position, and come here to absorb the content and try and learn from it. If these bogus claims are not refuted, I'm afraid some people will actually believe them. I still come here more to learn than I do to share my knowledge. There is a lot of stuff I donnot know about, but I'm not afraid to admit that. There are also a lot of things where there is not an easy right or wrong, so making sure all the info is out there and not just one side is important.

[XXXIV]

I've never understood how anyone who is "poor" could vote Republican. Do you think Hannity or Bill O'Reilly or any other fat cat Republican has your interests in mind? Of course not...they're interested in paying less taxes themselves. I admire someone like Obama who makes a pile of money yet is willing to step up and pay more in taxes so that 95% of the less fortunate in this country can get a break.

If all or most of the rich consisted of people who came from humble beginnings and worked their way up in life, I might feel differently. But my observation has been that many of the wealthy (such as Bush and McCain) came from money and have had many things handed to them in life, just because of their last name. Those fu$%ers should be the ones paying more in taxes, IMO, not less.

I can't understand your argument. How do people like Ted Kennedy and John Kerry etc... have our best interests in mind? Tell me where they got their money from.

It is unbelievable that people in th 21st century still cling to this marxist garbage.

[GTHobbes]

So, is everyone in rural, red, Republican America rich? That's news to me.

And who isn't interested in paying less taxes? You want to pay MORE taxes? If so, you certainly are a different breed of cat.

Democrats increase taxes so they can increase spending on social programs, which in turn decrease personal responsibility in this nation. The equation really is that simple.

Of course not everyone in rural, red, Republican America is rich. I grew up in rural, red (and blue) western Pennsylvania, and almost no one was rich.

And not everyone is interested in paying less taxes. Obama, Biden, Warren Buffett, myself, and almost all of Hollywood are wealthy Americans who will pay more taxes, if it means doing what we think is best for the country.

And Democrats are not the only ones who increase spending. Look at the last 8 years, where we saw nary a veto, or McCain's $300 billion "housing resurgence program", or Palin's $20million-plus "road to nowhere" for proof of that point.

[pk500]

That graph either shows that there certainly isn't a redistribution of wealth because we are talking low percentage numbers between the bottom 50% (the last 3-4 quintiles). Three percent, how can that be called a redistribution of wealth. 3 freaking percent? And it's not like 3% is just going to bottom bracket.

Something is off here.

JESUS H. CHRIST -- why should wealth be taken from people who worked to EARN it and given involuntarily to those who did NOT work to earn it?

Why should a guy who went to med school for seven years, slaved ridiculous hours as an intern before becoming a successful doctor and has the vital job of saving human lives be forced to fork over some of his money to some guy who works at the local video store for 40 hours a week after dropping out of high school and smokes dope and plays World of Warcraft all night?

That's f*cking insane!

The way to create more wealth for lower- and middle-income Americans is to cut government programs and income taxes. That will put more money into people's pockets in a much more equitable way.

When Obama preaches income redistribution, he sounds like bitter Joe Sixpack who complains about the salaries paid to professional athletes. Well, you know what? Pro athletes have a special skill that most don't, and they're rewarded for it. The local rec softball player shouldn't make as much as J.D. Drew, because he's NOT AS F*CKING GOOD.

Baseball's owners set the level of compensation. They pay what the market commands.

I have a personal example. My brother works in corporate pension sales. He just changed companies, but beforehand he had a cush setup at his previous company in which he MAYBE worked 15 hours per week and probably made close to FIVE TIMES per year what I make for busting hump for anywhere 40 to 80 hours per week, depending on the part of the season.

Did I resent him? Hell, no. He served as a U.S. Navy officer with distinction for seven years and then pursued a career in the business world, adding to his education through night classes and finding employment in a lucrative line of work.

In other words, he's not a criminal because he has a lot of dough. HE EARNED IT, and there's absolutely NO reason in the world why he must be forced involuntarily by the government or anyone else to "redistribute" it anywhere else.

Take care,
PK

[GameSeven]

Obama, Biden, Warren Buffett, myself, and almost all of Hollywood are wealthy Americans who will pay more taxes, if it means doing what we think is best for the country.

But you've been 'undecided', right?

I bet you can say it with a straight face just like BO

[GTHobbes]

Also, as an aside, I have to say that posting in these threads in soul-sucking enterprise. Most days I find myself thinking 'why am I even bothering', yet I keep coming back.

I know the feeling. The reason I keep responding is not because I feel it will get those I disagree with to "see the light", so to speak. They are never going to admit to being wrong, even if they know they are.

If I argue a point, it's more for the people out there who don't have a set in stone position, and come here to absorb the content and try and learn from it. If these bogus claims are not refuted, I'm afraid some people will actually believe them. I still come here more to learn than I do to share my knowledge. There is a lot of stuff I donnot know about, but I'm not afraid to admit that. There are also a lot of things where there is not an easy right or wrong, so making sure all the info is out there and not just one side is important.

Ditto.

[GTHobbes]

Obama, Biden, Warren Buffett, myself, and almost all of Hollywood are wealthy Americans who will pay more taxes, if it means doing what we think is best for the country.

But you've been 'undecided', right?

I bet you can say it with a straight face just like BO

I was undecided until 2 weeks ago. Now I'm voting for the guy who's going to win this thing in a couple of weeks, and I'm starting to feel proud to admit it.

[pk500]

And Democrats are not the only ones who increase spending. Look at the last 8 years, where we saw nary a veto, or McCain's $300 billion "housing resurgence program", or Palin's $20million-plus "road to nowhere" for proof of that point.

And that's exactly why I'm voting Libertarian for the fourth consecutive presidential election.

Take care,
PK

[XXXIV]

If he wants to talk about scientists being suppressed, how about the ones that refute global warming? The ones that don't conform to the cult of Gore are the ones really being suppressed and scorned.

So name some then.

And we'll see if they're clear of any oil industry entanglements.

I did provide links, and a simple google search will get you dozens more.

Also, I'm sure no global warming alarmist (for lack of a better term) has ever had any kind of conflict of interest.

It is very easy to find the links. Recapping the two it took me 4 seconds to find.

http://www.dailytech.com/Alaskan+Glacie ... e13215.htm

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Mo ... e10866.htm

You wont see these stories on the news cause they just doesnt work for the current media agenda.

[matthewk]

Agreed. I stumbled across this last night on MSNBC and actually was laughing out loud at some of the jokes. Never thought a politician could do that to me!

Biden has done that to me a lot in the past few weeks, but somehow I don't think he meant them to be jokes.

[XXXIV]

Obama, Biden, Warren Buffett, myself, and almost all of Hollywood are wealthy Americans who will pay more taxes, if it means doing what we think is best for the country.

But you've been 'undecided', right?

I bet you can say it with a straight face just like BO

I was undecided until 2 weeks ago. Now I'm voting for the guy who's going to win this thing in a couple of weeks, and I'm starting to feel proud to admit it.

Im still undecided.

[GTHobbes]

And Democrats are not the only ones who increase spending. Look at the last 8 years, where we saw nary a veto, or McCain's $300 billion "housing resurgence program", or Palin's $20million-plus "road to nowhere" for proof of that point.

And that's exactly why I'm voting Libertarian for the fourth consecutive presidential election.

Take care,
PK

I can respect that, PK. I used to do the same thing in my college days. But other than the tax and abortion issues, I don't really have anything against Obama so I'm going to use my vote in his favor.

[wco81]

They are never going to admit to being wrong, even if they know they are.

[Naples39]

It is very easy to find the links. Recapping the two it took me 4 seconds to find.

http://www.dailytech.com/Alaskan+Glacie ... e13215.htm

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Mo ... e10866.htm

You wont see these stories on the news cause they just doesnt work for the current media agenda.

To be clear 34, the point I'm trying to make isn't so much as to whether or not global warming is happening, or to what extent it is happening.

The point I was making that on the global warming issue, both sides have tried to suppress the other side and/or label them as wackos. It's not just the 'ideological right' suppressing ideas that are seen as against their faith.

[pk500]

And Democrats are not the only ones who increase spending. Look at the last 8 years, where we saw nary a veto, or McCain's $300 billion "housing resurgence program", or Palin's $20million-plus "road to nowhere" for proof of that point.

And that's exactly why I'm voting Libertarian for the fourth consecutive presidential election.

Take care,
PK

I can respect that, PK. I used to do the same thing in my college days. But other than the tax and abortion issues, I don't really have anything against Obama so I'm going to use my vote in his favor.

Understood and respected. It's America and it's your vote, after all!

Take care,
PK

[matthewk]

I grew up in rural, red (and blue) western Pennsylvania

Oh, so you're a racist then?

[XXXIV]

I've figured out what this is. It's the same thing that happens in sports when the fans think the ref are against their team.

It's the same freaking thing here. Obama had over a year, his criticism wasn't confined to one day or a few months in Palin's case.

Right and wrong. I figured it out.

Obama did have the media on him for over a year. When they had the back of their darling hillary. The minute she left they turned their ass kissing efforts right to him.

As far as the sports team analogy. That pretty much describes almost everyone here.

[wco81]

Why should a guy who went to med school for seven years, slaved ridiculous hours as an intern before becoming a successful doctor and has the vital job of saving human lives be forced to fork over some of his money to some guy who works at the local video store for 40 hours a week after dropping out of high school and smokes dope and plays World of Warcraft all night?

That's f*cking insane!

That sounds like the typical anecdote told by Republican politicians to rail against social programs.

You know, outright made up or exaggerated.

But what, only successful people have "slaved ridiculous hours?"

And everyone making a lousy income is working some cush job waiting for a handout to finance a lazy lifestyle?

[GTHobbes]

I grew up in rural, red (and blue) western Pennsylvania

Oh, so you're a racist then?

LoL...nah, that all changed when we got Kordell Stewart as a quarterback and he took us to the AFC championship.

(Seriously, I've never had a racist bone in my body...but I do know where Murtha was coming from when he made that comment.)

[XXXIV]

It is very easy to find the links. Recapping the two it took me 4 seconds to find.

http://www.dailytech.com/Alaskan+Glacie ... e13215.htm

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Mo ... e10866.htm

You wont see these stories on the news cause they just doesnt work for the current media agenda.

To be clear 34, the point I'm trying to make isn't so much as to whether or not global warming is happening, or to what extent it is happening.

The point I was making that on the global warming issue, both sides have tried to suppress the other side and/or label them as wackos. It's not just the 'ideological right' suppressing ideas that are seen as against their faith.

I agree with the point.

To say that Christians or oil companies are supressing global warming scientists is just ignorant...All we hear is about global warming while stories that contradict them are buried under the medias agenda.

[Jackdog]

JESUS H. CHRIST -- why should wealth be taken from people who worked to EARN it and given involuntarily to those who did NOT work to earn it?

Why should a guy who went to med school for seven years, slaved ridiculous hours as an intern before becoming a successful doctor and has the vital job of saving human lives be forced to fork over some of his money to some guy who works at the local video store for 40 hours a week after dropping out of high school and smokes dope and plays World of Warcraft all night?

That's f*cking insane!

The way to create more wealth for lower- and middle-income Americans is to cut government programs and income taxes. That will put more money into people's pockets in a much more equitable way.

When Obama preaches income redistribution, he sounds like bitter Joe Sixpack who complains about the salaries paid to professional athletes. Well, you know what? Pro athletes have a special skill that most don't, and they're rewarded for it. The local rec softball player shouldn't make as much as J.D. Drew, because he's NOT AS F*CKING GOOD.

Baseball's owners set the level of compensation. They pay what the market commands.

I have a personal example. My brother works in corporate pension sales. He just changed companies, but beforehand he had a cush setup at his previous company in which he MAYBE worked 15 hours per week and probably made close to FIVE TIMES per year what I make for busting hump for anywhere 40 to 80 hours per week, depending on the part of the season.

Did I resent him? Hell, no. He served as a U.S. Navy officer with distinction for seven years and then pursued a career in the business world, adding to his education through night classes and finding employment in a lucrative line of work.

In other words, he's not a criminal because he has a lot of dough. HE EARNED IT, and there's absolutely NO reason in the world why he must be forced involuntarily by the government or anyone else to "redistribute" it anywhere else.

Take care,
PK

Agreed. Hard to believe some in this country are pissed at success.

[GTHobbes]

Why should a guy who went to med school for seven years, slaved ridiculous hours as an intern before becoming a successful doctor and has the vital job of saving human lives be forced to fork over some of his money to some guy who works at the local video store for 40 hours a week after dropping out of high school and smokes dope and plays World of Warcraft all night?

That's f*cking insane!

That sounds like the typical anecdote told by Republican politicians to rail against social programs.

You know, outright made up or exaggerated.

But what, only successful people have "slaved ridiculous hours?"

And everyone making a lousy income is working some cush job waiting for a handout to finance a lazy lifestyle?

Good post, WCO. Some of the people I've known that have had the "hardest" jobs got paid the least. In one of my "summer" jobs during college, I knew guys who worked 12 hour days in a sweatshop for $3.85 an hour, plus time-and-a-half for hours worked over 40. The difference was, in my case, at the end of the summer I'd go back to school. In their case, they never left. (And most had kids to feed). I for one would like to see them get cut a break.