OT: Elections/Politics thread, part 4

[GTHobbes]

I wonder why McCain and the GOP keep doing this -- I would've thought they would have learned their lesson by now. Can't they find any country artists who would be glad to lend their tune for the cause?

"Add Foo Fighters to the ever-growing list of artists angry that their music has been used by John McCain and his Straight Talk Express on the campaign trail. The Foos heard that McCain was using the band’s The Colour and the Shape hit “My Hero” at rallies without ever seeking the permission from the band, their management, their record label or their publishers. “It’s frustrating and infuriating that someone who claims to speak for the American people would repeatedly show such little respect for creativity and intellectual property. The saddest thing about this is that ‘My Hero’ was written as a celebration of the common man and his extraordinary potential,” the Foo Fighters said in a statement. “To have it appropriated without our knowledge and used in a manner that perverts the original sentiment of the lyric just tarnishes the song. We hope that the McCain campaign will do the right thing and stop using our song — and start asking artists’ permission in general!” John Mellencamp, Jackson Browne, Heart, Boston and Eddie Van Halen have previously all spoken out against the GOP ticket for using their music without permission — not surprising, considering they all support Barack Obama."

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/i ... g-my-hero/

[JackB1]

Jack, do you have a source to cite for that last sentence? Believe me, I'd be happy to give the turd to Obama, but where did you hear that it is in the Bailout bill?

It was on the TV broadcast last night. I will look for more details and....
"I'll Bring Em To Ya"

The point was that McCain went out of his way to say that this brilliant new proposal was all his and it's just not so. Just like he likes to take credit for initiating discussion against Fanny & Freddy, when he just hopped on board someone else's idea. Fact: McCain's warning came more than a year after legislation was introduced. He was not the sponsor and the bill failed to pass.

EDIT: found the article from last night's show:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/ ... 0528.shtml

[RobVarak]

I wonder why McCain and the GOP keep doing this -- I would've thought they would have learned their lesson by now. Can't they find any country artists who would be glad to lend their tune for the cause?

"Add Foo Fighters to the ever-growing list of artists angry that their music has been used by John McCain and his Straight Talk Express on the campaign trail. The Foos heard that McCain was using the band’s The Colour and the Shape hit “My Hero” at rallies without ever seeking the permission from the band, their management, their record label or their publishers. “It’s frustrating and infuriating that someone who claims to speak for the American people would repeatedly show such little respect for creativity and intellectual property. The saddest thing about this is that ‘My Hero’ was written as a celebration of the common man and his extraordinary potential,” the Foo Fighters said in a statement. “To have it appropriated without our knowledge and used in a manner that perverts the original sentiment of the lyric just tarnishes the song. We hope that the McCain campaign will do the right thing and stop using our song — and start asking artists’ permission in general!” John Mellencamp, Jackson Browne, Heart, Boston and Eddie Van Halen have previously all spoken out against the GOP ticket for using their music without permission — not surprising, considering they all support Barack Obama."

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/i ... g-my-hero/

It's a proud GOP tradition that goes back at least to 1984, when Reagan pissed off Springsteen by using "Born in the USA" at rallies. Bizarre given the lyrical content, but it's one of those songs like "Every Breath You Take" that doesn't mean what anyone thinks it means LOL

[JackB1]

I'm not sure how you can be watching the evening news at noon, but whatever.

It's called podcasting. It's a wonderful thing:
http://feeds.cbsnews.com/~r/podcast_eve ... 122823.mp4

[pk500]

It's a proud GOP tradition that goes back at least to 1984, when Reagan pissed off Springsteen by using "Born in the USA" at rallies. Bizarre given the lyrical content, but it's one of those songs like "Every Breath You Take" that doesn't mean what anyone thinks it means LOL

I thought the GOP had perpetual Creative Commons license to the Lee Greenwood cheese-a-thon anthem, "God Bless the U.S.A."

No more love for Lee the Patriot?

Take care,
PK

[wco81]

You can be outraged at these anecdotes of falsified forms by ACORN workers here and there. But that rage rings hollow if there isn't equal outrage expressed at voter suppression efforts, like fliers put up in PA colleges made to look like they were from the Obama campaign instructing new voters that they must clear any traffic violations before they're allowed to vote.

I haven't heard that story, but isn't there a HUGE difference between random acts of vandalism and deception by a small group of unknown individuals, and systematic behavior of fraud in a nationwide organization that has close ties to a party??

Similar goals, but operating on a completely different level.

You assume ACORN is engaged in systemic fraud but there is no evidence of this. There's no evidence that the national organization instructed its local offices to teach field workers to falsify forms nor is there evidence that the falsified forms was part of some overarching strategy to affect election results in a particular way.

What has surfaced is that field workers were paid on a per-registration basis and the fraud was an attempt to pad their renumeration.

Also, ACORN isn't trying to influence the people whom it registers to vote a particular way. It's not saying, "Here, register to vote so you can vote for Obama or Obama and the Democrats are looking out for you."

It's targeting low-income and minority neighborhoods. GOP had faith-based groups targeting the evangelicals in states like OH in 2004.

I don't know how widespread the GOP efforts are at voter suppression. But I'm not going to assume that the PA fliers are from a "random" and "small group" engaging only in vandalism.

New voter registration deadlines are coming up this week and the pace of Democratic vs. Republican registrations shows a wide gap. In some states, there's a difference of several hundred thousand new registrations in the Democrats' favor.

No doubt there will be more allegations of fraud and attempts to challenge the eligibility of many of these new registrations.

[JackB1]

Add up all of Obama's "Pals" (which includes ACORN as well), and you have a person whose judgement and ability to lead are in great question.

A pile of crap = crap.

Obama's camp could just as easily come up with a list of meaningless negative things about McCain and his associations, but they choose to let the Rep's lead the smearing. They are doing the counter-punching and it's paying off so far.

None of this stuff will have any bearing on what Obama does in office for the next 4 years. McCain thought our "Economy was fundamentally sound" a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, that's the kind of judgment we all need in the oval office.

[JackB1]

The polls statement is funny. I just came from cnn.com where there poll has the racce tightening up. Between Oct. 1 and Oct. 7 Obama led, 49% to 43%. On Oct. 8th is was at 48% to 44%.

That CNN "Poll of Polls" is based on a choice only between Obama an McCain, so it's not realistic. When asked to choose between all the candidates that will be available on election day, the gap widens to 47%-40%

See "Poll #2" on CNN's page:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/map/polling/index.html

[RobVarak]

It's a proud GOP tradition that goes back at least to 1984, when Reagan pissed off Springsteen by using "Born in the USA" at rallies. Bizarre given the lyrical content, but it's one of those songs like "Every Breath You Take" that doesn't mean what anyone thinks it means LOL

I thought the GOP had perpetual Creative Commons license to the Lee Greenwood cheese-a-thon anthem, "God Bless the U.S.A."

No more love for Lee the Patriot?

Take care,
PK

I f***in hate that song!! HATE it!

[JackB1]

In Other Developments....

Palin's hubby trying to take the blame for "troopergate"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/ ... ryHeadline

Since the attempts to block this investigation have failed and it looks like the truth might come out, Palin's husband is trying to take the fall for his spouse.
This makes this whole story even more questionable now.

[pk500]

It's a proud GOP tradition that goes back at least to 1984, when Reagan pissed off Springsteen by using "Born in the USA" at rallies. Bizarre given the lyrical content, but it's one of those songs like "Every Breath You Take" that doesn't mean what anyone thinks it means LOL

I thought the GOP had perpetual Creative Commons license to the Lee Greenwood cheese-a-thon anthem, "God Bless the U.S.A."

No more love for Lee the Patriot?

Take care,
PK

I f***in hate that song!! HATE it!

I should have indicated my sarcasm more clearly. I'm with you, brother. That tune is Velveeta piled upon parmesan mixed with Romano, topped with pure maple sap.

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

I wonder why McCain and the GOP keep doing this -- I would've thought they would have learned their lesson by now. Can't they find any country artists who would be glad to lend their tune for the cause?

"Add Foo Fighters to the ever-growing list of artists angry that their music has been used by John McCain and his Straight Talk Express on the campaign trail. The Foos heard that McCain was using the band’s The Colour and the Shape hit “My Hero” at rallies without ever seeking the permission from the band, their management, their record label or their publishers. “It’s frustrating and infuriating that someone who claims to speak for the American people would repeatedly show such little respect for creativity and intellectual property. The saddest thing about this is that ‘My Hero’ was written as a celebration of the common man and his extraordinary potential,” the Foo Fighters said in a statement. “To have it appropriated without our knowledge and used in a manner that perverts the original sentiment of the lyric just tarnishes the song. We hope that the McCain campaign will do the right thing and stop using our song — and start asking artists’ permission in general!” John Mellencamp, Jackson Browne, Heart, Boston and Eddie Van Halen have previously all spoken out against the GOP ticket for using their music without permission — not surprising, considering they all support Barack Obama."

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/i ... g-my-hero/

I can't believe they have now tainted one of my favorite groups and songs of all time......Isn't anything sacred? Who's next? Green Day?

[RobVarak]

I thought the GOP had perpetual Creative Commons license to the Lee Greenwood cheese-a-thon anthem, "God Bless the U.S.A."

No more love for Lee the Patriot?

Take care,
PK

I f***in hate that song!! HATE it!

I should have indicated my sarcasm more clearly. I'm with you, brother. That tune is Velveeta piled upon parmesan mixed with Romano, topped with pure maple sap.

Take care,
PK

Oh no, I got it! I get shivers every time I hear that song, but not the kind that are intended.

Then again, I'm in the minority of Republicans who thinks that our national anthem should be either "Wu-Tang Clan (Ain't Nothin' To f*** Wit)" or "Rip It Up" by Little Richard. LOL

[bdunn13]

That CNN "Poll of Polls" is based on a choice only between Obama an McCain, so it's not realistic. When asked to choose between all the candidates that will be available on election day, the gap widens to 47%-40%

Do these polls include the Obama supporters voting multiple times, the dead Obama supports voting as well as the 12 year olds voting? If not, I would say the polls are really in the 85% to 15% range. You can never trust those things.

[pk500]

Since I lean libertarian, I guess "Back Off B*tch" by Guns 'N Roses should be my national anthem.

Take care,
PK

[bdunn13]

Since I lean libertarian, I guess "Back Off B*tch" by Guns 'N Roses should be my national anthem.

Take care,
PK

With these two candidates, I would think anyone but flaming liberals would lean libertarian.

[pk500]

Obama supporters shouldn't get too giddy unless polls indicate a lead of at least 10 percent for their man. The "Bradley effect" will be in full force Nov. 4, so Obama will need all the padding he can get:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

Take care,
PK

[RobVarak]

Several arguments that the Bradley effect is dead and gone, if it ever really existed in the first place

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/ ... ffect.html


http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf


I'm an agnostic on the topic, mostly because I just haven't had time to get into it LOL

[pk500]

This is only my gut feeling, but I think the Bradley effect will take hold Nov. 4, but maybe not to the extent in the past.

I'd like to think we've advanced racially as a nation, but this is the first time a black man has been a presidential nominee. I still think some racial fence-sitters will get cold feet and not pull Obama's lever Nov. 4, as pathetic of a reason that is not to vote for a candidate.

Also, that 538.com chart that tries to dispel the Bradley effect by displaying Obama's outcomes in the primaries is a complete load of sh*t because there are just as many guys who are afraid of voting for a broad as president as there are racists who are afraid of voting for a black person. Probably more.

Take care,
PK

[Naples39]

Several arguments that the Bradley effect is dead and gone, if it ever really existed in the first place

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/ ... ffect.html


http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf


I'm an agnostic on the topic, mostly because I just haven't had time to get into it LOL

The table below reflects 31 states in which at least three separate polls were released within 14 days of that state's primary or caucus. We compare the final trendline estimate from Pollster.com against the actual results from that state:

On average, Barack Obama overperformed the Pollster.com trendline by 3.3 points on election day.

But everyone knows democrats aren't racist and republicans are, so showing that the bradley effect didn't take place in dem primaries doesn't prove anything.

[Jared]

I'm sensing that the tone in the thread is just beginning to deteriorate again (see some of the posting this morning). Just because I'm not posting as much in the thread doesn't mean I'm not moderating it. Keep things civil.

[Brando70]

It's a proud GOP tradition that goes back at least to 1984, when Reagan pissed off Springsteen by using "Born in the USA" at rallies. Bizarre given the lyrical content, but it's one of those songs like "Every Breath You Take" that doesn't mean what anyone thinks it means LOL

You would think they would pull something off the National Review's 50 Greatest Conservative Rock Songs list. Imagine a Sarah Palin rally celebrating the culture of life by playing "Bodies" by The Sex Pistols.

I don't really think Obama's race will influence the election that much. The knuckledraggers who would vote against him because he's black are probably more concerned about him being a closet Muslim. Most of the hardcore Clinton supporters would vote against him regardless of his race because there's no uterus on the Democratic ticket.

[RobVarak]

But everyone knows democrats aren't racist and republicans are, so showing that the bradley effect didn't take place in dem primaries doesn't prove anything.

LOL Machosauce agrees!

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KxhYampIl7A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[Teal]

In Other Developments....

Palin's hubby trying to take the blame for "troopergate"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/ ... ryHeadline

Since the attempts to block this investigation have failed and it looks like the truth might come out, Palin's husband is trying to take the fall for his spouse.
This makes this whole story even more questionable now.

To quote you (in general): What does this have to do with what she's going to do in the next 4 years? Isn't this in the past? Hm?

[JackB1]

That CNN "Poll of Polls" is based on a choice only between Obama an McCain, so it's not realistic. When asked to choose between all the candidates that will be available on election day, the gap widens to 47%-40%

Do these polls include the Obama supporters voting multiple times, the dead Obama supports voting as well as the 12 year olds voting? If not, I would say the polls are really in the 85% to 15% range. You can never trust those things.

I agree, but someone was citing a poll to prove McCain is cutting into the lead because of his party's recent mudslinging. One poll that goes down by 1% in one day means nothing, but I guess that's the best that they could come up with.