OT: Elections/Politics thread, part 4

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Post by JackB1 »

matthewk wrote:
JackB1 wrote:Word is McCain himself has invited her to join him for 2 days of prepping for her upcoming debate. Anyone see a problem with this? I don't think Obama is tutoring Biden.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/2 ... 30146.html
Oh yes. God forbid she would actually prepare for a debate.

I swear, if you had a link to her eating vanilla ice cream you'd ask if there was something wrong with her because she wasn't eating chocolate.
There is nothing wrong with her preparing. What is weird is that McCain felt the need to personally prepare her himself. He isn't showing much faith in her ability to handle the debate prep herself and who could blame him after the Gibson and Couric interviews. Anymore answers like "Alaska's proximity to Russia gives me foreign policy experience" or contradicting McCain's stance on Pakistan like she did, could do him irreversible damage.

I don't blame him at all for prepping her himself. He has everything at stake and his choosing her is coming under greater question due to her recent flubs.
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Post by Teal »

JackB1 wrote:
matthewk wrote:
JackB1 wrote:Word is McCain himself has invited her to join him for 2 days of prepping for her upcoming debate. Anyone see a problem with this? I don't think Obama is tutoring Biden.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/2 ... 30146.html
Oh yes. God forbid she would actually prepare for a debate.

I swear, if you had a link to her eating vanilla ice cream you'd ask if there was something wrong with her because she wasn't eating chocolate.
There is nothing wrong with her preparing. What is weird is that McCain felt the need to personally prepare her himself. He isn't showing much faith in her ability to handle the debate prep herself and who could blame him after the Gibson and Couric interviews. Anymore answers like "Alaska's proximity to Russia gives me foreign policy experience" or contradicting McCain's stance on Pakistan like she did, could do him irreversible damage.

I don't blame him at all for prepping her himself. He has everything at stake and his choosing her is coming under greater question due to her recent flubs.
Nobody does prep themselves, Jack-they all have handlers for that, and drillers, and speech writers, and...oh, never mind. I just love that Biden can do no wrong, and Palin can do no right. Every decision McCain makes is questioned, and none of Obama's is...
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Post by XXXIV »

One day Biden will flub...He cant remain perfect.
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Post by JRod »

XXXIV wrote:One day Biden will flub...He cant remain perfect.
I don't know if you are being serious or not.

With Biden it's more like one day he will not flub...he can't remain perfect. :D

I like Biden because if you take away his propensity for stupid remarks he's a very smart guy.
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Post by XXXIV »

JRod wrote:
I like Biden because if you take away his propensity for stupid remarks he's a very smart guy.
Are you really Yogi Berra? :P
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Post by JRod »

XXXIV wrote:
JRod wrote:
I like Biden because if you take away his propensity for stupid remarks he's a very smart guy.
Are you really Yogi Berra? :P
Misspeaking as they call it and being smart do not go hand in hand. Maybe I should use a word you will understand, he's a very bright guy.
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Post by Teal »

XXXIV wrote:One day Biden will flub...He cant remain perfect.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: He's not being serious...
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Post by JackB1 »

JRod wrote:[
Misspeaking as they call it and being smart do not go hand in hand.
I am a perfect example of that :)
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Post by Teal »

JackB1 wrote:
JRod wrote:[
Misspeaking as they call it and being smart do not go hand in hand.
I am a perfect example of that :)

Oops...I think you misspoke... :wink: :lol:
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Post by RobVarak »

Apparently you have to travel abroad to find media willing to criticize Joe Biden. Better than nothing, I suppose :)



http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 46127.html
Joseph Robinette Biden – known to all as "Joe" – was once the most talked about American politician in Britain. Unfortunately for the senior Delaware Senator, all the talk was accompanied by incredulous laughter. As part of his Presidential campaign 20 years ago, he lifted verbatim and without attribution Neil Kinnock's celebrated remarks: "Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to a University ... was it because all our predecessors were thick, those people who could work eight hours underground and then come up to play football?"


Biden told an audience at an Iowa fairground: "I started thinking as I was coming over here, why is it that Joe Biden's the first in his family ever to go to University ... is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright... who worked in the coal mines of Northeast Pennsylvania and would come up after 12 hours and play football?"

Note the overt claim to spontaneity at the outset of the plagiarism; but it wasn't just that which left his run for the Presidency buried under an avalanche of ridicule. It rapidly emerged that Biden was not the first member of his family to go to university, and that the closest any ancestral Bidens came to working underground was a grandfather who was a mining engineer – and during the campaign Biden also told a number of gratuitous untruths about his own academic record.

It would be very difficult for a politician in this country to be taken seriously ever again, after such a humiliation; but Americans are a more forgiving people, and so Biden was able to entertain them once again during the current race for the White House. Thus last year he declared that his then rival, Barack Obama, was "not yet ready for the Presidency", which was not a post suitable for "on-the-job training", but graciously acknowledged: " I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Other African-American politicians were hardly amused by the imputation that they were not "clean", and I don't suppose Obama himself was grateful. Still, the Illinois Senator was happy to choose Biden as his vice-presidential running-mate, for several reasons. He is not married to Bill Clinton; he has a strong following among white blue-collar voters, which Obama desperately needs; above all, he is said to have the experience which Obama lacks – he has been a Senator for 36 years and is Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

For all the longevity of his tenure, Biden does not deserve the description lavished on him last month by the Los Angeles Times (among others) as "an acknowledged foreign policy sage". He voted against using American military force to remove Saddam Hussein's army from occupied Kuwait, but voted for the American invasion of sovereign Iraq in 2003. Later, he voted against the "surge" which has brought a degree of stability to that benighted country, proposing instead that it be allowed to break up along ethnic lines – the now discredited "Biden Plan". Experience is a wonderful thing, of course – but only if you learn the right lessons from it.

Doubtless, however, Joe Biden will stress the immense superiority of his acquired wisdom over Sarah Palin's much briefer curriculum vitae, when their one-off vice-presidential debate takes place on Thursday in St Louis, Missouri. Indeed, the Democrats and their camp-followers in the press have been chortling in anticipation of a massacre, especially after Mrs Palin's performance when interviewed last week by CBS's Katie Couric.

The Republican vice-presidential candidate had been unable to elaborate on the way in which John McCain had attempted to enforce greater regulation on the finance industry, beyond his demand for more supervision of the biggest mortgage lenders; and she struggled to justify her claim that being Governor of Alaska gave her a special insight into the threats from Russia.

Neither of her responses was articulate. But they weren't factually incorrect. She didn't make anything up. That's Biden territory. When he faced the deceptively easy-going Ms Couric, he told the CBS anchorwoman, a propos deals to rescue Wall Street: "When the stock market crashed, Franklin D Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened'." As others, but not Ms Couric, have since observed, the US President at the time of the 1929 stock market crash was not Roosevelt, but Herbert Hoover; and Roosevelt didn't go on television, probably because no-one in America owned one at the time.

Such dedicated and inarticulate imprecision with the facts of history should not disqualify Joe Biden from being taken seriously as the next-in-line for the Presidency; he got away with his goof, as easy-going and genial men tend to do. But imagine what hysteria would have ensued if it was Mrs Palin who had constructed a fictitious account of the circumstances surrounding the great Wall Street Crash.

It is true – at least on actuarial grounds – that John McCain is more likely to die in a first term of office than a President Obama; and ahead of Thursday's debate between Biden and Palin, Democracy for America (the group started by former Democratic Presidential candidate Howard Dean) has run a television ad showing grotesquely enlarged photos of McCain's scarred face immediately following his most recent operation for melanoma, with the punch-line: "John McCain is 72 years old and had cancer four times. Why won't he release his medical records?"

As a tasteless way of terrifying the American public about the possibility of a President Palin, that certainly scores high on the sick-meter. But if Barack Obama does become US President, we should be very grateful that he is in such splendid physical condition. Nothing in Joe Biden's record, long as it is, suggests that he has the attributes one would wish for in a head of state. There would be plenty of laughs, though.
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Post by matthewk »

I had to pause for a minute after reading his full name: Robinette? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by XXXIV »

matthewk wrote:I had to pause for a minute after reading his full name: Robinette? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Whats so damn funny?

Thats a very pretty name.
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Post by FatPitcher »

JRod wrote:
XXXIV wrote:One day Biden will flub...He cant remain perfect.
I don't know if you are being serious or not.

With Biden it's more like one day he will not flub...he can't remain perfect. :D

I like Biden because if you take away his propensity for stupid remarks he's a very smart guy.
Are you saying that XXXIV is misunderestimating Biden?
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Post by JRod »

RobVarak wrote:Apparently you have to travel abroad to find media willing to criticize Joe Biden. Better than nothing, I suppose :)



http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 46127.html
Ummm didn't you say something about quoting columnists? Anyway Domick Lawson is a Conservative (UK not US) so I wonder how much he supports Obama.

Anyway all those complaints against Biden were logged against him during the primary season. So I guess the question is, how long should the media bring up these complaints?
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Post by JRod »

FatPitcher wrote:
JRod wrote:
XXXIV wrote:One day Biden will flub...He cant remain perfect.
I don't know if you are being serious or not.

With Biden it's more like one day he will not flub...he can't remain perfect. :D

I like Biden because if you take away his propensity for stupid remarks he's a very smart guy.
Are you saying that XXXIV is misunderestimating Biden?
Misunderestimating? That's a nice word.
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Post by Teal »

JRod wrote:
RobVarak wrote:Apparently you have to travel abroad to find media willing to criticize Joe Biden. Better than nothing, I suppose :)



http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 46127.html
Ummm didn't you say something about quoting columnists? Anyway Domick Lawson is a Conservative (UK not US) so I wonder how much he supports Obama.

Anyway all those complaints against Biden were logged against him during the primary season. So I guess the question is, how long should the media bring up these complaints?
As long as they bring up every other candidates', which isn't happening. At all.
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Post by Brando70 »

JRod wrote:
FatPitcher wrote:
JRod wrote: I don't know if you are being serious or not.

With Biden it's more like one day he will not flub...he can't remain perfect. :D

I like Biden because if you take away his propensity for stupid remarks he's a very smart guy.
Are you saying that XXXIV is misunderestimating Biden?
Misunderestimating? That's a nice word.
I believe that was tongue-in-Bush.
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Post by RobVarak »

Brando70 wrote:
I believe that was tongue-in-Bush.
:lol:
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Post by JRod »

RobVarak wrote:
Brando70 wrote:
I believe that was tongue-in-Bush.
:lol:
DSP has been on fire that last few days with one-liners.
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Post by Teal »

What the hell?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76645

Who the hell thought this was a reasonable idea?
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Post by TheHiddenTrack »

Teal wrote:What the hell?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76645

Who the hell thought this was a reasonable idea?
I don't think the moderator is the person you need to be concerned about. She hasn't come off as biased to me in the past. But if she comes off as biased that will be a great way to spin the debate, so maybe it will be a blessing.

She better not ask any specific "gotcha" questions like "what newspapers and magazines do you regularly read?"
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Post by RobVarak »

TheHiddenTrack wrote:
She better not ask any specific "gotcha" questions like "what newspapers and magazines do you regularly read?"
That's a terrible appearance of a conflict of interest. Nevertheless, I'm more concerned with her competence than with possible bias. She was terrible in 2004. I'm stunned they're giving her another chance.
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Post by FatPitcher »

RobVarak wrote:
TheHiddenTrack wrote:
She better not ask any specific "gotcha" questions like "what newspapers and magazines do you regularly read?"
That's a terrible appearance of a conflict of interest. Nevertheless, I'm more concerned with her competence than with possible bias. She was terrible in 2004. I'm stunned they're giving her another chance.
Are you saying that people didn't watch the debate to find out the candidates' plans to reduce AIDS among black women?
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Post by JRod »

Teal wrote:What the hell?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76645

Who the hell thought this was a reasonable idea?
Against my better judgement I'm going to respond to this because of the "news" site you cite.

She's writing a book about Black Politicians. The title is Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama. The publishers gave this about the book. (The publishes are there to hype the book)
In THE BREAKTHROUGH, veteran journalist Gwen Ifill surveys the American political landscape, shedding new light on the impact of Barack Obama’s stunning presidential campaign and introducing the emerging young African American politicians forging a bold new path to political power.
Ifill argues that the Black political structure formed during the Civil Rights movement is giving way to a generation of men and women who are the direct beneficiaries of the struggles of the 1960s. She offers incisive, detailed profiles of such prominent leaders as Newark Mayor Cory Booker, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, and U.S. Congressman Artur Davis of Alabama, and also covers up-and-coming figures from across the nation. Drawing on interviews with power brokers like Senator Obama, former Secretary of State Colin Powell, Vernon Jordan, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, and many others, as well as her own razor-sharp observations and analysis of such issues as generational conflict and the "black enough" conundrum, Ifill shows why this is a pivotal moment in American history.
The book might be blatantly pro-obama. I could not find any reviews for the thing so no one knows. It is slated to be release Jan 09. A large majority of african-american politicians are black, therefore just by doing this book she's going to be covering a lot of democrats. If she did a book on mormons in politics, the book is going to have more republicans than democrats.

And the title says in a time of Obama. Well we are in a time of Obama. It end in November or it could last eight more year. The last two years regardless if you agree with him, were Obama's. He dominated public conversation and the Democratic party.

Second about the news source. You've said it numerous times, in jest possibly, that you don't trust news sources. Do you trust that one?

If so there's a few things to remember.

Both the Obama/McCain teams get to negotiate the when's and how's of the debate. I would imagine if McCain/Palin didn't want Ifill that could have negotiated her off the debate. They didn't.

Your news source also cites her appearance at the Palin VP nomination speech. Here's what the PBS ombudsman says about it.
Some of the comments about Ifill deal with how she appeared on screen when asked by Lehrer to sum up the reaction on the convention floor after the powerful speech delivered by Palin. I don't know whether Ifill was tired after a long night, or simply trying to talk over very loud noise and music in the background, or struggling to hold her earpiece in place the whole time. But she clearly reported that delegates "exploded with excitement" over Palin's speech and that they "couldn't have been happier." Apparently, that's not enough for some viewers. You have to smile and reflect enthusiasm in order to avoid being painted as biased
The news source cited doesn't lie but they are misleading when they say the she was cited in complaints the PBS ombudsman received.

That amounts to me sending a letter to PBS that Jim Lehehr's tie looks liberal, the ombudsman cites that in his blog, and Fox News says that that ombudsman cites that complaints were received that Lehehr was too liberal. Techinically it's true but the ombudsman never said Lehrer was too liberal.

It seems that those in the conservative media, which clearly this site was, is looking for any and all instances of perceived liberal bias. Of course most of it's manufactured because it's 100% subjective. These aren't true news sites that probably have some level of oversight by an ombudsman.

We should have a rule where you can't cite propaganda news sites, blogs or columnists.
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Post by FatPitcher »

JRod wrote: We should have a rule where you can't cite propaganda news sites, blogs or columnists.
Good idea. That way we can spend our time debating whether something is propaganda instead of the issue at hand.
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