OT - Financial mess 101 ($700 billion bailout)

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:50 pm

RobVarak wrote: There's blame to go around.

I'll agree with you on that.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:52 pm

GTHobbes wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/ ... index.html

"A majority of Democrats voted for the bill. A majority of Republicans voted against it."

Blaming the democrats? You repubs are really something else...

I wonder if we'll ever see another president leaving on such a low note, after such a horrible term to begin with.

Hey Jack! Hobbes found whatever Pelosi was smoking...

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:54 pm

If I was to grade Pelosi I'd give her a C, as in.....

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:54 pm

Teal wrote:
GTHobbes wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/ ... index.html

"A majority of Democrats voted for the bill. A majority of Republicans voted against it."

Blaming the democrats? You repubs are really something else...

I wonder if we'll ever see another president leaving on such a low note, after such a horrible term to begin with.
Hey Jack! Hobbes found whatever Pelosi was smoking...

Nah.......I like the brother too much to compare him to Pelosi.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:55 pm

GTHobbes wrote:
RobVarak wrote: There's blame to go around.
I'll agree with you on that.

Honestly, if you haven't done so, go back and read the whole thread. I've been pounding the House GOP guys for dragging their feet on this. I'd be more than happy to blame them if Boehner and Cantor hadn't done such a good job of getting as many as they did to sign on.

I wish they'd delivered another dozen Republican votes, but that hardly seems a sin given the way the vote played out on the other side of the aisle.

Edit:

Just caught this on Volokh's blog. Those criticizing the bill as "psychotherapy" etc. should take heed that sometimes that's as damaging as systemic flaws.

3D UPDATE: The expected volatility, as measured by the CBOE VIX index is at about 45. If it closed there, it would be the highest close ever recorded (or at least as far as I found data, going back to 1990). In other words, fear is at a higher level than in 1998 or post 9/11.

Here's a definition of VIX in case you've never heard of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIX

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:56 pm

Well hey, at least you're not socialists!

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:57 pm

Didn't see it mentioned yet, but Wachovia was bought out today Citigroup.

How long until the day when 1 bank (probably Bank of America) holds all our money?

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:57 pm

matthewk wrote:If I was to grade Pelosi I'd give her a C, as in.....

I'm a black man with no ass,it was chewed off when I went there with Hillary.

Take my advice brother,stay away from that hairy triangle.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:59 pm

JRod wrote:

Chuck Todd said this is a real shot to the leadership in Washington. Boehner, Pelosi, Bush and Paulsen.

I think Pelosi just lost her Speaker gavel with this. Emmanual is the new Speaker in 09. On a tough vote you kick your opponent in the shins. I think she assumed she had the votes and this speech was for TV time with a winning vote. I doubt this was the entire reason but in a tough partisian vote, her speech didn't help anything.

Chuck Todd basically echoed 538.com. The vote was more along tight races than party politics.

Reps can blame Dems. Dems can blame Reps. Chuck Todd said this confirms to the American people that Washington is broken (beyond the usual partisian brokeness we normally hear from one side or the other. Who that helps is still up in the air.

Good post John.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:01 pm

JackDog wrote:
Teal wrote:
GTHobbes wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/ ... index.html

"A majority of Democrats voted for the bill. A majority of Republicans voted against it."

Blaming the democrats? You repubs are really something else...

I wonder if we'll ever see another president leaving on such a low note, after such a horrible term to begin with.
Hey Jack! Hobbes found whatever Pelosi was smoking...

Nah.......I like the brother too much to compare him to Pelosi.

Oh, I'm not comparing Hobbes to Pelosi. That's kind of like the joke 'whaddya get when you compare Pelosi to a pig? Nothing, 'cause even pigs have standards.'

No, I was just thinking that the hash must be pretty potent...

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:03 pm

Teal wrote: Oh, I'm not comparing Hobbes to Pelosi. That's kind of like the joke 'whaddya get when you compare Pelosi to a pig? Nothing, 'cause even pigs have standards.'

No, I was just thinking that the hash must be pretty potent...

My bad!! I misunderstood.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:04 pm

Trump says oil will drop to 25 bucks a barrel because of this.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:07 pm

JackDog wrote:Trump says oil will drop to 25 bucks a barrel because of this.

I'll take that bet. All that crazy Eastern European poonanny has turned his brain to mush.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:13 pm

"The bill failed by a vote of 205 to 228, with 140 Democrats and 65 Republicans voting in favor and 95 Democrats joining 133 Republicans against."

Why is the blame being solely put on the dems again? I'm confused.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:14 pm

RobVarak wrote:
JackDog wrote:Trump says oil will drop to 25 bucks a barrel because of this.
I'll take that bet. All that crazy Eastern European poonanny has turned his brain to mush.

Interesting.....I'm not an economist, so this is news to me:

Trump was on Cavuto's show right now saying this is a "cleansing" and that every time something "bad" like this happens oil prices drop like a rock and it's going into a tailspin. He says oil is the lifeblood of the economy and that will be very good for the economy.

He said if Congress came out and announced a new deal and it was going to be great that oil prices would shoot up. does that make sense?

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:16 pm

sportdan30 wrote:"The bill failed by a vote of 205 to 228, with 140 Democrats and 65 Republicans voting in favor and 95 Democrats joining 133 Republicans against."

Why is the blame being solely put on the dems again? I'm confused.

Pelosi and Frank were finger pointing at Republicans for the faliure of the bill. Some of us believe she needs to get control of her own party and snag the votes she wants from them. Bush wants this passed so there is no Veto waiting. Majority rules right?

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:17 pm

JackDog wrote:
matthewk wrote:If I was to grade Pelosi I'd give her a C, as in.....
I'm a black man with no ass,it was chewed off when I went there with Hillary. Take my advice brother,stay away from that hairy triangle.

You're black?

Post by **Jared** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:18 pm

sportdan30 wrote:"The bill failed by a vote of 205 to 228, with 140 Democrats and 65 Republicans voting in favor and 95 Democrats joining 133 Republicans against."

Why is the blame being solely put on the dems again? I'm confused.

Because those oh so sensitive Republicans were offended by Pelosi's speech, so to show her who's boss, some changed their votes...

...and tanked the market!

(Guys, is that <b>really</b> the narrative you want to be going with?)

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:19 pm

I hear ya Jack. She oughta just keep quiet. Unfortunately, she's already said too much. But, the fault can't be just pointed at one party. This is bigger than politics now.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:20 pm

sportdan30 wrote:"The bill failed by a vote of 205 to 228, with 140 Democrats and 65 Republicans voting in favor and 95 Democrats joining 133 Republicans against."

Why is the blame being solely put on the dems again? I'm confused.

Nobody that I've seen is solely blaming the Dems.

As I said (highlights address your questions)

There's blame to go around. I've been hammering the GOP in this thread since Day 1. But on a bill which is so important, it's obviously a failure of leadership for a Democratic Speaker of the House to have so many Democratic defectors. And that failure is compounded by the blood on Barney Frank's hands.

She then decides to go out and throw gas on the fire by delivering a campaign speech in the press conference when she should be figuring out how to marshall her own party behind the bill and bring as many Republicans along as possible. She needs to find a copy of Parliamenary Leadership for Dummies. Seriously, Tip O'Neil's drink is spilling as he rolls in his grave.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:20 pm

JackDog wrote:Trump says oil will drop to 25 bucks a barrel because of this.

Makes sense - after all, if all industry closes and no-one's got a job, who needs oil ? Whereas if the wheels start rolling again, the tw*ts in braces buy into oil because it'll be on again....like what happened a couple of weeks ago.

Donald Trump should be shot in the face with a f**king bazooka. Him and all of his rich boy pals will be just biding their time now, hoping to pick up a lot of stock and businesses at rock bottom, fire-sale prices. And f**k to everyone else.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:22 pm

So far....Oil prices plunged over $10 a barrel Monday as a U.S. financial bailout plan failed to win legislative approval, increasing fears that a prolonged economic downturn that could sharply curtail energy demand.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:22 pm

sportdan30 wrote:"The bill failed by a vote of 205 to 228, with 140 Democrats and 65 Republicans voting in favor and 95 Democrats joining 133 Republicans against."

Why is the blame being solely put on the dems again? I'm confused.

Each side is blaming the other, when the truth is there was enough sizable opposition on both sides to block this thing. It seems like the older members of both sides were pushing this bill while the younger crowd was against it.
Personally, anything that Bush is for, we should be wary of.

What is being overlooked here is that the American public is very much against this bill. There has got to be a better solution. A bailout now seems like a short term "bandaid".

Post by **Jared** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:22 pm

Just saw Barney Frank on CNN...haha.

Here’s the story. There’s a terrible crisis affecting the American economy. We have come together on a bill to alleviate the crisis. And because somebody hurt their feelings, they decide to punish the country. I mean, I would not have imputed that degree of pettiness and hypersensitivity.

We also have — as the leader will tell you, who’s been working with them — don’t believe they had the votes, and I believe they’re covering up the embarrassment of not having the votes. But think about this. Somebody hurt my feelings, so I will punish the country. That’s hardly plausible. And there are 12 Republican members who were ready to stand up for the economic interest of America, but not if anybody insulted them.

I’ll make an offer. Give me those 12 people’s names and I will go talk uncharacteristically nicely to them and tell them what wonderful people they are and maybe they’ll now think about the country.

I doubt the House leadership on both sides would have had this go up for a vote w/o thinking they had a majority....then at least 12 people flipped. Question is, who flipped? Democrats are claiming they're Republicans, though I don't think you'll ever know who actually changed. You can probably blame House leadership on both sides of the aisle for this not passing.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:24 pm

Jared wrote:
sportdan30 wrote:"The bill failed by a vote of 205 to 228, with 140 Democrats and 65 Republicans voting in favor and 95 Democrats joining 133 Republicans against."

Why is the blame being solely put on the dems again? I'm confused.
Because those oh so sensitive Republicans were offended by Pelosi's speech, so to show her who's boss, some changed their votes...

...and tanked the market!

(Guys, is that <b>really</b> the narrative you want to be going with?)

They tanked the market?? Jared what about the 94 man?? Why didn't those rebels vote with their leader? Majority rules man. They should enjoy it while it lasts. 18 percent approval and dropping.