OT - Financial mess 101 ($700 billion bailout)

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:29 pm

Even the Heritage Foundation is backing the stimulus package. House Repub's have lost their minds on this one.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2091.cfm

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:11 pm

Bill failed.

94 Democrats opposed!

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/bai ... 09-29.html

Interesting times.

Post by **Jared** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:13 pm

Bill currently rejected...watching C-Span, and it was something like 205 to 228. Dow goes BOOM!

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:17 pm

I'm trying to see the roll call, but both CSPAN and the House websites are blown up LMAO

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:22 pm

Wow! I am really surprised. I can't believe 94 Dems voted no. What's up with that?

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:26 pm

JackDog wrote:Wow! I am really surprised. I can't believe 94 Dems voted no. What's up with that?

Actually listening to the calls and emails of their constituents? I've warmed up some, but really as a free market guy my gut says don't pass this.

Were there earmarks and other baloney associated with this bill? Someone trying to sneak something under the rug?

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:26 pm

JackDog wrote:Wow! I am really surprised. I can't believe 94 Dems voted no. What's up with that?

Giveaway to the wrong people.

Edit: Here's a link: http://www.votenobailout.org/

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:29 pm

JackDog wrote:Wow! I am really surprised. I can't believe 94 Dems voted no. What's up with that?

2 reasons, I think.

First of all is the electorate's anger at the deal. Remember that these people are up for re-election in 5 weeks. They are hyper-sensitive to the popular anatagonism toward the bill and most don't have the cojones to jam a "crap sandwich" (in Boehner's words) down the maw of the voters this close to election day.

Secondly, it is an enormous amount of money that will greatly restructure the way that the Federal government influences markets. That is worthy of caution. Some may think that if they vote against now they may be able to craft a better bill.

Edit: Pelosi is a moron! She comes out and blasts the Republicans when she lost almost 100 of her own party on a bill that she has to finesse through at some point. Brilliant! This woman is not fit to be speaker. She's a partisan parrot without a lick of sense about how to run a parliamentary operation.

To paraphrase a quote from brilliant legislator Lyndon Baines Johnson, she couldn't pour the piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:32 pm

Well at least we're not socialists!

If we have to put the wrecking ball to capitalism, we'll make sure we're not socialists!

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:36 pm

edit...nm

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:36 pm

We're getting a lot of de facto consolidation now, as banks buy up other distressed banks.

What happens when Citi or B of A is teetering on the brink?

I became a Wachovia customer because they bought up a regional S&L where I had some accounts. Then Wachovia bought another S&L which had all the garbage loans.

The surviving banks are rolling up smaller banks, which were still big enough to cause distress when they went under.

If there's a bank run against one of these money-center banks, $700 billion isn't going to be enough.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:38 pm

wco81 wrote:
If there's a bank run against one of these money-center banks, $700 billion isn't going to be enough.

Agreed. And there's already been a run on the banks by the wealthy. They're all buying T-bills and have been since last week. We need the FDIC insurance levels raised substantially to get some of that liquidity back in the banks and out of T-bills.

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:52 pm

My prediction:

- Asian markets will open lower to reflect the madness of Monday
- European markets will continue to drop Monday and start lower Tuesday before moving up in their afternoon
- US markets will see a big jump as bargains are sought after

A lot of this is a mind game. There will be many bargains to be had after today. Yes, my retirement is taking a beating today, but ultimately my funds should pick up some stocks on the cheap...

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:03 pm

RobVarak wrote:
Edit: Pelosi is a moron! She comes out and blasts the Republicans when she lost almost 100 of her own party on a bill that she has to finesse through at some point. Brilliant! This woman is not fit to be speaker. She's a partisan parrot without a lick of sense about how to run a parliamentary operation.

To paraphrase a quote from brilliant legislator Lyndon Baines Johnson, she couldn't pour the piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

Couldn't agree more. The stupid idiot made it political today. She's not just a moron,she's a fu*king moron. How could she say the Dems held up their end of the bargain? 94 voted aginist it! WTF is she smoking and how do I get some? I think we will all need it.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:08 pm

Pelosi: "The Democratic side more than lived up to its side of the bargain." LMAO

This woman needs to turn the keys over to Emmanuel or some other reasonably intelligent legislator immediately. She's embarassing herself and the nation.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:11 pm

RobVarak wrote:Pelosi: "The Democratic side more than lived up to its side of the bargain." LMAO

This woman needs to turn the keys over to Emmanuel or some other reasonably intelligent legislator immediately. She's embarassing herself and the nation.

Frank and the others speaking after her are just as stupid. My God,today is not the day to play politics.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:12 pm

One of my pals just sent me this e-mail:

You know there's a problem when you see this on the National Review website:

I would figure out if there were a bill to the left of the one the House just voted on that could pass on a party-line vote and reassure the markets.

LMAO

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:16 pm

JackDog wrote:
Frank and the others speaking after her are just as stupid. My God,today is not the day to play politics.

Seriously! I disagree with Rahm Emmanuel about just about everything, but he could crush Pelosi and Frank with his brain

How the hell can the Democrats keep putting Frank in front of the cameras? It's like sending out Lee Harvey Oswald to brief the press about the motorcade.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:23 pm

RobVarak wrote:
JackDog wrote:
Frank and the others speaking after her are just as stupid. My God,today is not the day to play politics.
Seriously! I disagree with Rahm Emmanuel about just about everything, but he could crush Pelosi and Frank with his brain

How the hell can the Democrats keep putting Frank in front of the cameras? It's like sending out Lee Harvey Oswald to brief the press about the motorcade.

Rob, I hope people understand that majority rules. The Dems sunk the bill with 94 votes aginist. What a f***in joke for them to play politics. I hope the 18 percent approval ratings of Congress are dropping as I type.

Why call for a vote when you know 90 plus of your own party is going to vote aginist it? This Congress is a joke!

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:30 pm

RobVarak wrote: First of all is the electorate's anger at the deal. Remember that these people are up for re-election in 5 weeks. They are hyper-sensitive to the popular anatagonism toward the bill and most don't have the cojones to jam a "crap sandwich" (in Boehner's words) down the maw of the voters this close to election day.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/ ... l#comments

Among 38 incumbent congressmen in races rated as "toss-up" or "lean" by Swing State Project, just 8 voted for the bailout as opposed to 30 against: a batting average of .211.

This issue really gets at the heart of representative democracy.

There is a legitimate argument, as F308 has pointed out, to be made that they were serving their constituents by reflecting their opinion. OTOH, there should be a measure of leadership exhibited, wherein pure populism is counter-balanced by a willingness to make an unpopular vote where the national good is involved.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:37 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/ ... index.html

"A majority of Democrats voted for the bill. A majority of Republicans voted against it."

Blaming the democrats? You repubs are really something else...

I wonder if we'll ever see another president leaving on such a low note, after such a horrible term to begin with.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:42 pm

RobVarak wrote:Pelosi: "The Democratic side more than lived up to its side of the bargain." LMAO

This woman needs to turn the keys over to Emmanuel or some other reasonably intelligent legislator immediately. She's embarassing herself and the nation.

Chuck Todd said this is a real shot to the leadership in Washington. Boehner, Pelosi, Bush and Paulsen.

I think Pelosi just lost her Speaker gavel with this. Emmanual is the new Speaker in 09. On a tough vote you kick your opponent in the shins. I think she assumed she had the votes and this speech was for TV time with a winning vote. I doubt this was the entire reason but in a tough partisian vote, her speech didn't help anything.

Chuck Todd basically echoed 538.com. The vote was more along tight races than party politics.

Reps can blame Dems. Dems can blame Reps. Chuck Todd said this confirms to the American people that Washington is broken (beyond the usual partisian brokeness we normally hear from one side or the other. Who that helps is still up in the air.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:43 pm

GTHobbes wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/ ... index.html

"A majority of Democrats voted for the bill. A majority of Republicans voted against it."

Blaming the democrats? You repubs are really something else...

There's blame to go around. I've been hammering the GOP in this thread since Day 1. But on a bill which is so important, it's obviously a failure of leadership for a Democratic Speaker of the House to have so many Democratic defectors. And that failure is compounded by the blood on Barney Frank's hands.

She then decides to go out and throw gas on the fire by delivering a campaign speech in the press conference when she should be figuring out how to marshall her own party behind the bill and bring as many Republicans along as possible. She needs to find a copy of Parliamenary Leadership for Dummies. Seriously, Tip O'Neil's drink is spilling as he rolls in his grave.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:46 pm

GTHobbes wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/ ... index.html

"A majority of Democrats voted for the bill. A majority of Republicans voted against it."

Blaming the democrats? You repubs are really something else...

I wonder if we'll ever see another president leaving on such a low note, after such a horrible term to begin with.

40 percent of your party voted aginist it. 228-205 vote to reject the bill. Think those 94 votes would have pushed it through? It is what it is.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:49 pm

RobVarak wrote:
There's blame to go around. I've been hammering the GOP in this thread since Day 1. But on a bill which is so important, it's obviously a failure of leadership for a Democratic Speaker of the House to have so many Democratic defectors. And that failure is compounded by the blood on Barney Frank's hands.

She then decides to go out and throw gas on the fire by delivering a campaign speech in the press conference when she should be figuring out how to marshall her own party behind the bill and bring as many Republicans along as possible. She needs to find a copy of Parliamenary Leadership for Dummies. Seriously, Tip O'Neil's drink is spilling as he rolls in his grave.

Bingo! That's the turd in punchbowl right there. She has no control over her own party so she and Frank point fingers at what? 12 Republicans.