OT: Elections/Politics thread, part 4

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Brando70
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Post by Brando70 »

RobVarak wrote:Incidentally, if I'm "very right-wing" you really need to get out and meet more Republicans...many of whom scorn me because I'm too "moderate." I would submit that despite the length of this thread, there's really not enough data to pin me down on the political spectrum :)
Well, you've provided more voting data than McCain did last year. :P
RobVarak wrote:I wasn't saying, incidentally, that an Obama presidency would be a liberal apocalpyse. My point was that he's more liberal than the candidate his campaign is selling, and that if McCain wants to get back in this race he needs to point that out.


I think it's going to be more like a Liberal Festivus.

You're also assuming that painting Obama as a liberal will succeed in turning the electorate against him. I don't think that's necessarily the case.

Fatpitcher's point about Americans getting tired of Democrat-dominated governments was only half-correct. When one party controls the legislative and executive branches, there is always a backlash. The GOP had complete control for six years, and frankly laid a Cleveland Steamer on the conservative brand. Iraq, the economy, the weariness of the culture wars (perhaps best symbolized by the "so what?" reaction to Bristol Palin's pregnancy), the sex scandals...Americans are tired of unfiltered conservatism, at least for now. McCain's come-from-behind nomination shows that -- he beat out candidates with much greater conservative credentials and bigger war chests.

I have no doubt if Obama wins and the Democrats retain control of Congress, the pendulum will swing back eventually. But the timer on the Reagan and Gingrich Republicanism is about done. If the GOP suffers big-time in the election, they will probably regroup, rebrand, and eventually regain their strength.
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Post by Brando70 »

Naples39 wrote:
Feanor wrote:I didn't quote your post, I quoted Rob's.

But if you want to worry about the liberal bogyeman, too, then go right ahead.
I'm not sure it matters whose post you quote, it's your idea that Obama is a centrist that I disagreed with. It's more than just partisan nonsense to criticize Obama's very left-leaning record.

Honestly it bothers me every time because I think Obama's centrism is probable the single biggest/most persistent myth of this campaign cycle. Let's just say I agree with Rob that Obama's "more liberal than the candidate his campaign is selling."
Well, you could say the reverse about McCain, too. By his record, he is pretty center-right according to the National Journal rankings. But once he started campaigning, he became much more conservative in tone and in his platform. McCain the candidate really doesn't sound that much different than Bush did in 2000. It's compassionate conservatism all over again. McCain even distanced himself from his biggest sore spot with conservatives, illegal immigration, and courted the evangelical vote heavily despite saying less than flattering things about evangelical leaders earlier in his career. So is he going to be the president he says he is going to be, or the one his record says he will be? Probably the latter, but then again, being president is much, much different than being a senator.

I do feel much more positive about this election than 2004. I didn't particularly like Kerry and only voted for him because Bush was not an option for me. I feel very positive about voting for Obama, but if McCain wins, I won't feel like the country is getting cornholed again, as long as he takes his vitamins and gives Palin the "hands-off" Dan Quayle treatment. I have a lot of ideological differences with him, but I feel he's a good, capable leader.
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Post by Feanor »

RobVarak wrote:Incidentally, if I'm "very right-wing" you really need to get out and meet more Republicans...many of whom scorn me because I'm too "moderate." I would submit that despite the length of this thread, there's really not enough data to pin me down on the political spectrum :)

And it is good to know that you don't find my links laughable until after you read them :lol:

I wasn't saying, incidentally, that an Obama presidency would be a liberal apocalpyse. My point was that he's more liberal than the candidate his campaign is selling, and that if McCain wants to get back in this race he needs to point that out.
You are quite... right. :) I should not have put that "very" in there.

I think McCain is also more liberal than the candidate his campaign is selling, at least he used to be. Year 2000 McCain with a good economic team could have been a great president.
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Post by Naples39 »

Brando70 wrote:Well, you could say the reverse about McCain, too. By his record, he is pretty center-right according to the National Journal rankings. But once he started campaigning, he became much more conservative in tone and in his platform.
I am kinda counting on the fact that McCain has always been more center-right with his record than McCain the candidate says. I don't much care for McCain the candidate pandering the evangelical base.

I think once you get past the first year or so of presidency, the success of a president's term is usually decided by how they deal with non-campaign issues. I am betting when those things occur we would get Obama the very liberal in office who we didn't see on the campaign trail, or we would get McCain the centrist who we didn't see on the campaign trail. Of those 2 choices, I know who I like better for sure.
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Post by Slumberland »

Naples39 wrote:I am betting when those things occur we would get Obama the very liberal in office who we didn't see on the campaign trail...
I know I am personally looking forward to the passage of the Blame America First act, golden parachutes for the poor, and a constitutional amendment that will allow me to marry my cat.
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Post by JRod »

Naples39 wrote:
Brando70 wrote:Well, you could say the reverse about McCain, too. By his record, he is pretty center-right according to the National Journal rankings. But once he started campaigning, he became much more conservative in tone and in his platform.
I am kinda counting on the fact that McCain has always been more center-right with his record than McCain the candidate says. I don't much care for McCain the candidate pandering the evangelical base.

I think once you get past the first year or so of presidency, the success of a president's term is usually decided by how they deal with non-campaign issues. I am betting when those things occur we would get Obama the very liberal in office who we didn't see on the campaign trail, or we would get McCain the centrist who we didn't see on the campaign trail. Of those 2 choices, I know who I like better for sure.
Presidents have always moved to the center after they are elected. Clinton's success can be attributed to this very fact. Outside of Bush, who moved to the right side of stupid, almost all Presidents move to the center somewhat.
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Post by JRod »

Slumberland wrote:
Naples39 wrote:I am betting when those things occur we would get Obama the very liberal in office who we didn't see on the campaign trail...
I know I am personally looking forward to the passage of the Blame America First act, golden parachutes for the poor, and a constitutional amendment that will allow me to marry my cat.
Ha. I enjoyed that! :D
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Post by pk500 »

I share Brando's sentiments. Both of these guys seem very capable to lead this country; it's just a matter of which direction you approve.

Quite the contrast from 2004. Kerry was a flip-flopping dolt whom I didn't trust one bit, and Bush already had shown me in four years that he was heading this country down a dead-end road based solely on impulse, not thought.

We appear to have a much better scenario with this election's candidates. I sure hope so!

Take care,
PK
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Post by Naples39 »

Slumberland wrote:I know I am personally looking forward to the ... golden parachutes for the poor....
Don't we already have that? :wink:
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Post by pk500 »

JRod wrote:Outside of Bush, who moved to the right side of stupid, almost all Presidents move to the center somewhat.
Ha! I enjoyed that! :)

DSP is rolling today!

Take care,
PK
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Post by Feanor »

Naples39 wrote:
Slumberland wrote:I know I am personally looking forward to the ... golden parachutes for the poor....
Don't we already have that? :wink:
Golden showers, more like. :lol:
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Post by matthewk »

Feanor wrote:I'm nowhere near as partisan as some of the lifelong Republicans and Democrats in this thread.
And just how would you know who are lifelong Reps or Dems? Based on the current views they have?

You probably think of me as one of the Republican lifers. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I'm not. I actually voted for Clinton in '96, Bush in '00, and Kerry in '04. I will go with who I think is best, regardless of the party attached to them. Sadly, the choice is usually about the lesser of two evils raher than getting behind someone I truly support.
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Post by Brando70 »

Slumberland wrote:
Naples39 wrote:I am betting when those things occur we would get Obama the very liberal in office who we didn't see on the campaign trail...
I know I am personally looking forward to the passage of the Blame America First act, golden parachutes for the poor, and a constitutional amendment that will allow me to marry my cat.
Don't forget the Mandatory Sodomy Act and the White Male Relocation Act, which will settle white men in Idaho after they march along the Trail of Light Beers.
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Post by Brando70 »

Feanor wrote:
Naples39 wrote:
Slumberland wrote:I know I am personally looking forward to the ... golden parachutes for the poor....
Don't we already have that? :wink:
Golden showers, more like. :lol:
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Post by pk500 »

Hey, don't forget that Ramadan will become a Federal holiday. Obama is a Muslim operative, according to a right-wing e-mail that hit my Inbox earlier this summer. And no, it wasn't spam.

Take care,
PK
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Post by RobVarak »

pk500 wrote:Hey, don't forget that Ramadan will become a Federal holiday. Obama is a Muslim operative, according to a right-wing e-mail that hit my Inbox earlier this summer. And no, it wasn't spam.

Take care,
PK
Dude, Ramadan is a month long. I'd sign up for that!!
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Post by wco81 »

Naples39 wrote:
Brando70 wrote:Well, you could say the reverse about McCain, too. By his record, he is pretty center-right according to the National Journal rankings. But once he started campaigning, he became much more conservative in tone and in his platform.
I am kinda counting on the fact that McCain has always been more center-right with his record than McCain the candidate says. I don't much care for McCain the candidate pandering the evangelical base.

I think once you get past the first year or so of presidency, the success of a president's term is usually decided by how they deal with non-campaign issues. I am betting when those things occur we would get Obama the very liberal in office who we didn't see on the campaign trail, or we would get McCain the centrist who we didn't see on the campaign trail. Of those 2 choices, I know who I like better for sure.
Well maybe he was just pandering but he promised he'd appoint justices to the Supreme Court who'd have the approval of the evangelicals.

That and the selection of Palin suggests his bows to the social conservatives are more than mere window dressing.
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Post by Naples39 »

Slumberland wrote:I know I am personally looking forward to the passage of the Blame America First act, golden parachutes for the poor, and a constitutional amendment that will allow me to marry my cat.
Also, don't get too comfortable with your marriage to your cat because Sarah Palin might fly by in a helicopter and shoot it at any moment.
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Post by RobVarak »

Slumberland wrote: I would welcome any interesting Dems-for-McCain links.
http://www.nashvilleistalking.com/node/72231
A quarter of Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary said they will now vote for McCain, according to the poll. 56% of Clinton supporters say they will vote for Obama and the rest remain undecided.
TN is certainly a bit of an outlier vis a vis the national popular vote, but that's still a significant number.
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Post by GTHobbes »

Naples39 wrote:
Slumberland wrote:I know I am personally looking forward to the passage of the Blame America First act, golden parachutes for the poor, and a constitutional amendment that will allow me to marry my cat.
Also, don't get too comfortable with your marriage to your cat because Sarah Palin might fly by in a helicopter and shoot it at any moment.
LoL...
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Post by RobVarak »

The politics of hope:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanm ... or_ad.html

Obama sought rape victim for ad

Seriously, win or lose I don't think I've ever seen a campaign more divergent in it's purported nature and the reality of how it's run.
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Post by FatPitcher »

RobVarak wrote:The politics of hope:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanm ... or_ad.html

Obama sought rape victim for ad

Seriously, win or lose I don't think I've ever seen a campaign more divergent in it's purported nature and the reality of how it's run.
Brutal. Possibly even worse than Edwards the stem cell faith healer in '04.
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Post by JackB1 »

pk500 wrote:I share Brando's sentiments. Both of these guys seem very capable to lead this country; it's just a matter of which direction you approve.

We appear to have a much better scenario with this election's candidates. I sure hope so!

Take care,
PK
I agree. Fri's debate confirmed that.
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Post by Jackdog »

Pelosi is a moron. She claims the Republicans killed the bill today,yet 94 Dems voted aginist it. What a joke. She has got to go!
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Post by Teal »

JackDog wrote:Pelosi is a moron. She claims the Republicans killed the bill today,yet 94 Dems voted aginist it. What a joke. She has got to go!
Pelosi didn't need a single republican to pass that turd. Not a single one. And I, for one, am glad we have a group of people that will say 'no way' when the pressure's on. Thank God for spines-they're in short supply inside the Beltway these days.

Check this little quote from Pelosi a couple days ago:
The Village Idiot wrote:I'm glad the republicans have finally come to the table. I thought it was very unpatriotic of them not to show up.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/27/v ... nt-page-1/

How many times have we heard democrats bellow 'DON'T QUESTION MY PATRIOTISM!' Well, well, well...their hypocrisy knows no bounds, so far as Pelosi is concerned.

To hell with the bailout. After 9-11, the stock market dropped to the 7's, if I remember correctly, and it jumped up quite nicely without Pelosi and her Marxist cronies doing one damned thing. Let the friggin' market work-we don't need to let the government keep putting on the superman cape...their starting to believe they actually ARE saviors.
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