NHL09: DSP EASHL (360)

[GameSeven]

Sign me up

I just got the game and would like to join.

Invites sent.


All, I'll be on for a few hours tonight if anyone wants to try a few matches.

[GameSeven]

Well, last night was frustrating to say the least.

Connection hiccups made most games non-starters and in one of two games in which we had a lead, we got dumped by the dreaded faceoff loop problem

For the matches that went through, we took a sound thrashing for the most part. Those 8 goal against games can be a slog.

Our biggest shortcoming is in the puck possession game and as a result, we are consistently being outshot by a significant margin.

We are falling into the classic dilemma of gaining the zone with possession. Our efforts seem to end up in the same three results. First is the dreaded pass at the blueline going for offsides. Second, if we carry into the zone we are getting stood up by defenseman stepping into us at the line. Third, is dump-and-chase. The jury is out on this, I think, because we had *some* success generating chances but we also gave up possession that way a number of times as well. The problem, as I see it, is that we didn't try it enough to open space for either of the first two options.

Also, I believe our positioning is being exploited. It's easier said than done, but I think we are failing to support the puck carrier. On a breakout, often time the puck carrier was the last man back as we tried to make our way up ice. One mistake and the other side would be off to the races.

In the offensive zone, I think we get caught in no man's land sometimes. We would sometimes overcommit personnel in the corner and get three forwards caught deep. Other times, one forechecker would go into the corner and be outmanned as the other two forwards played shallow in the zone or went to the slot.

I think we need attention to our forechecking. Let's see if getting back to fundamentals helps. We should start with a 1-2-2 forecheck where the primary forechecker pursues heavily and finishes his check. One mistake I, and I believe others as evidenced by the regular tripping calls, have made is to rely on the poke check to free the puck. In the offensive zone, we need to be finishing our checks.

I found this link ( http://www.bobhalkidis.com/3zf.html ) to be pretty useful for general hockey strategy.

Similarly, there are tips for defensemen at the link above as well. While the controls are better than 08, it is still a considerable challenge to play strong defense, but denial of time and space at the blueline by the strong side D is imperative. In the offensive zone, play your points. I noticed a couple of point passes that went the length of the ice as the D was too far to the center of the ice. If the forecheck gives you an opportunity to pinch, the third forechecking forward and the weak-side D must rotate into a support position. Call out the situation if you can, at least until everyone has a chance to get used to the dynamics.

Nights like last night aren't too fun. Hopefully, we can rectify some of our weaknesses and improve on the balance of the attack time.

Links, thoughts, etc. are welcome

[XXXIV]

My thoughts...I know an oxymoron.

First off I was more upset with the connections than the play. I like the hanging out aspect of it. Its just cool to play with you dudes...Though you are correct those 8 goal games can start to get on the nerves.

Change the 3 human player minimum to 4. Most of those games were against 3 player teams whos D was always in position so they could afford not to be.

We played without a goalie that plays goalie so that didnt help. Though you guys werent bad its too much when we have no puck possesion.

You are correct in that since we dont dump much its easy for us to get stood up at the line as the D... both Human and comp dont have to worry about it.


Finally and most importantly...The more I play the worse I get.

[RobVarak]

Good tips, 7. Winning that game and then getting hammered in the next gave me some insight as well. I've been hollering about forechecking for several nights, although as a D that's to be expected.

In the game that we won I was able to take my position on the point in the offensive zone without fear because 1. There was no cherry picking opponent sitting at center ice and 2. We kept the puck deep and forechecked like the devil. If we don't do no. 2, no. 1 just kills us. If we don't forecheck, the long outlet to the cherry picker is a guaranteed breakaway. My only option is to abandon the point and mark the cherry picker, leaving us fewer offensive options.

On the defensive side we need to remember to hold our positions a bit better. The better teams get the puck deep, and we have a tendency to collapse on the puck in the corners, leaving unmarked opponents in the slot. We need to have the confidence in our teammates that will allow us to let them do their jobs whil we do ours.

I also personally need to get better in 1v1 situations. I consistently end up on my ass, even when I'm the one delivering a hit. And I know it's giving me and XXXIV fits trying to stay with breaking attacking players 1v1.

[MACTEPsporta]

I apologize in advance, but don't know any hockey terminology in English. What's forechecking?

I think it would be helpful if someone drew a map of movement and cover zones for each position, so we are on the same page. I also think that we need to assign positions to everyone on the team, so that we can start perfecting the aspects of that position. Some variation is welcome, but let's get good at what we do, and customize our players accordingly.

[Naples39]

I think the biggest problem for our team in the games I've played are that we don't react to the positioning of our teammates very well. IE, the puck goes to the offensive corner, 2 or 3 forwards go for it, or all 5 defenders attempt to block the pass to the slot and get beat by one pass. I think we need to spread out on offense and D, and then react to our teammates or talk more so we don't constantly have 2 players doing the same thing and leaving huge gaps in our positioning as a result.

I also think the dump and chase might work okay for us because most teams' forwards release very quickly (even on good teams), so if we can cause a turnover down low you almost always get a clean look at goal before the forwards come back and help on defense.

My biggest frustration however is losing all the one-on-one battles for the puck. I constantly get dumped on my ass and it seems so many times I'm in perfect position defensively and the other team just passes the puck right through me. Even if our team positioning is perfect we'll still lose the game if the other team gets all the loose pucks or skates right through us.

Other things that might help:
-more coherent breakouts. Look first for the long pass, but if it's not there circle back so we can move up the ice together and pass more in the process. Might help us gain the zone more.
-Shoot more. Not every play has to be a onetimer, and if you have men in front and time to shoot, rip a slapper looking for a deflection, screen, or rebound.

[RobVarak]

Forechecking is checking and pressuring the opposition in our offensive zone after we give up possession. It's the equivalent of pressing in basketball or the soccer cliche of "defending from the front." It's much more critical in hockey because it allows the defenders to get into good position and prevents an offensive player from getting behind our defense. It's particularly essential with the elimination of the 2-line pass.

[XXXIV]

I apologize in advance, but don't know any hockey terminology in English. What's forechecking?

.

Forwards checking up the ice...like when the other team has the puck in their end. Attacking while they have the puck instead of dropping back.

EDIT: Rob you are too fast

[RobVarak]

I

My biggest frustration however is losing all the one-on-one battles for the puck. I constantly get dumped on my ass and it seems so many times I'm in perfect position defensively and the other team just passes the puck right through me. Even if our team positioning is perfect we'll still lose the game if the other team gets all the loose pucks or skates right through us.

I've had some better success using the LB to block those passes, but it's slow and very hard to recover from. The game is not very forgiving when it comes to possession. You have to get it right on your stick or it'll go through. That's why I've started LB or even diving.

I also think it may have something to do with our players' skill numbers. We're almost all using Rookie level players. I'm certain that we're dealing with substantially levelled up layers in some of those games.

[Naples39]

Anybody know how long it takes or what you have to achieve to get a few skill points?

[RobVarak]

Anybody know how long it takes or what you have to achieve to get a few skill points?

I think that you get points whenever you unlock the next "card." To unlock the veteran card you need 20 online games with a C average or better.

[ScoopBrady]

I haven't played in a couple of nights but one thing I noticed was that we are terrible with our defensive positioning. We should have two bodies in front of the net at all times preventing them from getting possession in the slot. Usually it's the two defensemen but when one of them has to go chase a puck in the corner one of the wings needs to take that spot. The center should be all about pressuring the points and keeping the puck to the outside. Defense in hockey is very different from other sports because it isn't just "This is my guy where is he?" If the right defenseman gets pulled from the front of the net then the right wing should take his place regardless of who is man is. When this happens the center has to guard the guy that the wing abandoned. By doing this we will keep the puck on the perimeters where it is much harder to score.

On offense we don't shoot enough. We also don't move the puck well. We should be cycling the puck along the boards more and using the shield button (A) more. It seems as if we are playing hot potato in the offensive zone. Nobody wants to hold the puck for more than a split second and it's leading to turnovers. We need to try and spread out in the offensive zone and draw defenders out of the middle. When this happens we need someone to head to the slot for a pass and potential open shot. We also need to get more shots from the point with the center in the trenches either trying to screen the goalie or redirect the shot. Maybe they'll even be in position for a rebound. Also, when a defender joins the attack we need that winger to drop back to the point. Too many times we get caught in odd-man rushes.

I think we need to practice more in private OTP sessions and communicate with each other way more during the game. We'll start to get it eventually with practice.

[RobVarak]

I think we need to practice more in private OTP sessions and communicate with each other way more during the game. We'll start to get it eventually with practice.

Just in time for FIFA to come out!

[GameSeven]

Anybody know how long it takes or what you have to achieve to get a few skill points?

I believe the consensus is that you get points when you "earn your next card". I think my next card is at 20 games played. Even then, I understand that the point increases are somewhat meager. Ive heard 3, to start, then 4 then 5 or something like that. I don't know quite how much player differentiation we will see with those numbers, but we'll see.

I spec'd as a Off-D, figuring I'd be a pivot and QB, but it seems I've been advised to take forward positions most games. If you guys on D would prefer, I'll re-spec as a forward type.

Great dialog all. Rob, I recall your comment to the effect of "A forechecking forward, that's what I like to see". I wanted to joke, but was too distracted, "if Mac was in the game, he'd respond that a *back*checking forward is what he'd like"

Seriously though, I think we are all on the same page regarding the things we need to do.

Forecheck "like the devil".

For the First forechecker (F1), take the body. In fact, when it comes to the opposing puck-carrier, the mantra should be hit, hit, hit. If two forecheckers are converging, the *first* man to the puckcarrier should take the body. The second forechecker (F2) should anticipate where the puck will be and make a play for it. That might be picking up a dislodged puck, getting on the board to prevent the forward pass, or cutting off any backward pass to the opposing D. Those double checks into the boards look cool, but they usually are accompanied by an opponent picking up any loose puck.

In general, F1 has responsibility at around the opponent goalline, F2 and F3 at the faceoff dots and D1 and D2 at the points.

Win the one on one battles. I am trying to break my reliance on the pokecheck as it responds more slowly and can get you out of position more easily this year than last. As Rob mentioned, even the pass-block on LB seems to be nerfed a little from last year. Those should both be used situationally. Where possible, putting a body on the man will be the preferred method of dislodging the puck.

On offense, don't forget the protect puck button, or even a simple stickhandle to distance the puck from opponents.

Get the puck in deep. The number of options playing from the goal line out, particularly against a human goalie, are great. As Naples said, if their forwards release too quickly, there will be an open look at the net somewhere, often from down low. Let's find it.

Lastly, shoot, shoot, shoot. One timers are great and all, but tips, rebounds and the like are all part of a well-rounded attack. When we only put 5 shots on goal in two periods the opponent goalie gets too comfortable. Let's make them work which should expose some holes.

[GameSeven]

-more coherent breakouts. Look first for the long pass, but if it's not there circle back so we can move up the ice together and pass more in the process. Might help us gain the zone more.

I forgot that in my posts. I believe you're right. While we are not necessarily hell-bent on hitting the long pass, we often do try to force it. We'd be well-served to move up ice better together. Space out on the ice and present options. Particularly east-west. Space out and make the defenders open up to try to mark you. When a defensemen is breaking out, his partner should move up ice with him on the weak side, and perhaps slightly behind. It's all about options.

[Leadfoot5]

GREAT stuff guys, especially for a hockey strategy newb like me. I've found myself in some of the "bad" situations mentioned above so this will really help.

My question is what is meant exactly when we say that F1 should put a body on the puck handler. Does this mean go for the check (up on the right stick) or just to stick to him and bump him around?

[XXXIV]

I played first half the night on left wing and the last part on RD.

My problem is I played better defense on LW...

I need to spec one way or the other and I dont know which.

[Leadfoot5]

Dola...

And what do you guys do to try and poke in a loose puck in front of the net? Do you flick the right stick up or do you use the RB to poke? I find myself trying to flick the right stick up but more often than not I end up going into the check animation. I'm wondering if the poke button would work better...?

[XXXIV]

Dola...

And what do you guys do to try and poke in a loose puck in front of the net? Do you flick the right stick up or do you use the RB to poke? I find myself trying to flick the right stick up but more often than not I end up going into the check animation. I'm wondering if the poke button would work better...?

I have scored a couple of goals poking at the goalie while he was trying to cover.

[GameSeven]

GREAT stuff guys, especially for a hockey strategy newb like me. I've found myself in some of the "bad" situations mentioned above so this will really help.

My question is what is meant exactly when we say that F1 should put a body on the puck handler. Does this mean go for the check (up on the right stick) or just to stick to him and bump him around?

What I am proposing is that we attempt to body check as part of the forecheck with the right stick as opposed to trying to poke the puck free with RB. I should add that when you are trailing the puckcarrier such that you can't effectively check with the right stick, then I am getting the impression that the lift stick (A) is more effective and takes you out of the play less frequently. However, judicious use is important as it can result in a penalty.

[GameSeven]

Dola...

And what do you guys do to try and poke in a loose puck in front of the net? Do you flick the right stick up or do you use the RB to poke? I find myself trying to flick the right stick up but more often than not I end up going into the check animation. I'm wondering if the poke button would work better...?

This is a *big* sticking point with the control scheme. Particularly when there is a scrum for a loose puck and fervently jamming at the stick results in a penalty

I think the two choices are the poke, as you indicated although there would seem to be very little control exactly *where* the poke will go. Alternatively, discipline to make sure you gain posession before hitting the shot. I am going to try to pay attention to this as too often, like you, I go into the check animation.

[Gangrel]

I haven't even played yet (hopefully I can find you guys on tonight.

I'm not a pro, but just from playing hockey in a rec work league, and seeing you guys having some of the same problems as we did... most of which are mentioned by someone, but I just wanted to reiterate some things I always find importnat.

In the offensive zone, if the Dman on your side is heading for the net, YOU stay back and play 'D'. This applies to the wingers.

On the rush, drill "3rd man high, 3rd man high, 3rd man high" into your head. The LAST forward on the rush should stay high in the slot. This might give you a chance if there's a long rebound, but more imporantly you will become the first forward back to help on D. I know this because I'm usually the slowest guy on my team, so by default I'm the 3rd guy, lol.

The last two forwards (usually the wingers) should stick to the point men in the defensive zone. The winger on the strong side (whatever side the puck is on) should be close enough to the point man to kiss him. The weak side winger CAN cheat, and hang out in the high slot as long as he keeps himself between the puck and the point man behind him, but be careful. D have a habit of sliding behind you and ending up lower in the zone for a one timer chance. (also, from my experience!)

I think this all translate well into the video game realm.........

Look forward to hooking up tonight if anybody is around! I might stop by EB after getting groceries to pick up a Live headset, as I'll be damned if i can find mine after the move!!!!!

[Leadfoot5]

Excellent, thanks for the advice and tips!!

Next question... When is the right time to use the Cover (A) button. I haven't figured that one out yet... Will it help me get through the neutral zone? I seem to get the puck poke-checked away from me half of the time by human opponents, while the CPU players let me skate right through...

[macsomjrr]

Excellent tips so far guys. I'm not sure how much I could add as I'm just the big padded up monster in the net who misses all the offensive action. Pressure human goalies with shots, shots and more shots. Even if they are crappy shots just keep 'em coming. It is very difficult to see the puck once it gets 2-3 feet in front of the net and usually at that point the goalie will drop down to the ice at which point he loses all his mobility and side-to-side movement.

We should schedule some times for games.

[Gangrel]

Excellent, thanks for the advice and tips!!

Next question... When is the right time to use the Cover (A) button. I haven't figured that one out yet... Will it help me get through the neutral zone? I seem to get the puck poke-checked away from me half of the time by human opponents, while the CPU players let me skate right through...

The best time to use the A button is when you are circling around the net with the puck and trying to score. It's also good if you're on the wing and cutting towards the net too, as you are shiedling the Defenseman with one arm, while you're bringing the puck with the other.

I'd concentrate on deking in the neutral zone, or dumping, not using the Cover optoin.