OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:42 pm

JackB1 wrote:
Her demeaning and ridiculing of Obama's community work was very ugly and not becoming at all, for a possible future VP of the USA.

You do understand that it was a direct response to the Dem's shot at her experience, belittling her mayorship of a small town, right?

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:58 pm

Suing for peace means basically surrendering and submitting to whatever terms of surrender or peace which the winning side wants to impose.

The US stops occupying or ends their presence in a country they invaded.

How is that a loss or defeat? It wouldn't have to submit to any terms imposed by the Iraqis or any other country.

My point is, characterizing a war as a victory or defeat is a political act, in the absence of something formal like a treaty, where it's clear the victor is able to exact economic, political, military terms from the vanquished.

So it's a "defeat" only to people who didn't see Iraq turn out a certain way.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:00 pm

webdanzer wrote:
JackB1 wrote:
Her demeaning and ridiculing of Obama's community work was very ugly and not becoming at all, for a possible future VP of the USA.
You do understand that it was a direct response to the Dem's shot at her experience, belittling her mayorship of a small town, right?

They can dish it out, but they can't take it...

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:06 pm

Teal wrote:
webdanzer wrote:
JackB1 wrote:
Her demeaning and ridiculing of Obama's community work was very ugly and not becoming at all, for a possible future VP of the USA.
You do understand that it was a direct response to the Dem's shot at her experience, belittling her mayorship of a small town, right?

They can dish it out, but they can't take it...

It wasn't so much "he's not qualified" ripping. It was more like they were ripping community work itself as if it's just a stupid thing to do.

Teal, you're an interesting guy. When you write "they can't take it". Who's not "taking it" exactly?

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:25 pm

greggsand wrote:It wasn't so much "he's not qualified" ripping. It was more like they were ripping community work itself as if it's just a stupid thing to do.

That's what I took away from it. I expect the candidates to take shots at each other -- they are candidates. But Palin's parsing was especially interesting because, in the wet-dream GOP government where the government completely gets out of social work, community workers would be kind of important. Unless the Republicans expect the workhouses and orphanages to pick up all the slack.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:36 pm

she is against community work?...

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:10 pm

matthewk wrote:
JackB1 wrote:Her demeaning and ridiculing of Obama's community work was very ugly and not becoming at all, for a possible future VP of the USA.
I thought it was pretty funny

That's not surprising.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:12 pm

webdanzer wrote:
JackB1 wrote:
Her demeaning and ridiculing of Obama's community work was very ugly and not becoming at all, for a possible future VP of the USA.
You do understand that it was a direct response to the Dem's shot at her experience, belittling her mayorship of a small town, right?

The difference is that the Dem's did it in a matter of fact way and the Rep's did it in a mocking way. There is a difference.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:14 pm

greggsand wrote:
It wasn't so much "he's not qualified" ripping. It was more like they were ripping community work itself as if it's just a stupid thing to do.

Greg, I am glad you saw that distinction also.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:34 pm

JackB1 wrote:
greggsand wrote:
It wasn't so much "he's not qualified" ripping. It was more like they were ripping community work itself as if it's just a stupid thing to do.

Greg, I am glad you saw that distinction also.

Tomato, tomahto. There is no distinction. She was just funnier about it. It's about time someone knock the Messiah off his high horse, show him he's just another guy. I think he was starting to believe his own press.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:35 pm

greggsand wrote:
Teal wrote:
webdanzer wrote: You do understand that it was a direct response to the Dem's shot at her experience, belittling her mayorship of a small town, right?

They can dish it out, but they can't take it...
It wasn't so much "he's not qualified" ripping. It was more like they were ripping community work itself as if it's just a stupid thing to do.

Teal, you're an interesting guy. When you write "they can't take it". Who's not "taking it" exactly?

The people who were dishing out the whole 'inexperience' bullshit regarding Palin. She's more experienced than Obama ever dreamed of being.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:43 pm

A provocative quote from Power Line, regarding Palin...

"We conservatives have had a good time ridiculing the Obama phenomenon, especially its messianic feel -- the willingness of its adherents to pour so much hope and belief into such an empty, or at least incomplete, vessel -- and its elevation of "narrative" over substance.

It turns out that we were dying to have basically the same experience."

Maybe not totally appropo, given that the Dem "the government can (and should) help you" stance lends itself more easily to accusations of messiah complex, but an interesting moment of self-reflection from someone on the Right. Of course, I always liked the adage that conservatives will tell you that government doesn't work, then fight like hell to get elected so they can prove it.

I'm of the opinion that a rising tide lifts all boats, but only when the tide can be paid for responsibly. And in that regard I'm skeptical of the numbers behind Obama's plans.

MACTEPsporta · Post by **MACTEPsporta** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:50 pm

This whole experience thing is starting to get comical. Clinton was critisized for his lack of experience and he picked an even younger VP. Can you imagine what the forums must've been back then? Except there weren't any forums.

Shame.

I think there is a difference between having an inexperienced president vs. having an inexperienced vice-president. You see, if people pick Obama to be president it will be knowing about his lack of experience, thus only voters will be to blame. If McCain is president, however, and he passes, it is his decision that put an inexperienced as head of country. So, I suppose it all comes down to judgement after all. Ah, it will never end...

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:55 pm

And now it's time for our interesting, but meaningless tidbit from last night's convention.....

Did anyone else notice Palin's next to youngest daughter (Piper?) had the same brown dress on as the night before? I guess Sara's too busy to change the kids clothes. Let's hope she changed Trig's diaper! Maybe that's why they kept passing that baby around like the Detroit Red Wings

***joking***joking***joking***joking***joking***joking

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:05 pm

Slumberland wrote: I'm of the opinion that a rising tide lifts all boats, but only when the tide can be paid for responsibly. And in that regard I'm skeptical of the numbers behind Obama's plans.

Which numbers are you referring to?

These?

Both candidates have promised to balance their tax relief programs with budget cuts designed to trim soaring deficits. But the Tax Policy Center has warned that both plans -- coupled with the candidates' high-cost healthcare proposals -- would balloon the $9.6-trillion national debt. The center's analysis reported that McCain's tax proposals would add $5 trillion to the debt over the next 10 years, while Obama's would add $3.6 trillion.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... 8648.story

Or these?

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:07 pm

Teal wrote:
JackB1 wrote:
greggsand wrote:
It wasn't so much "he's not qualified" ripping. It was more like they were ripping community work itself as if it's just a stupid thing to do.

Greg, I am glad you saw that distinction also.
Tomato, tomahto. There is no distinction. She was just funnier about it. It's about time someone knock the Messiah off his high horse, show him he's just another guy. I think he was starting to believe his own press.

When did that happen? I doubt her words had any effect on "The Messiah" (I like that term!)...

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:08 pm

Teal wrote:The people who were dishing out the whole 'inexperience' bullshit regarding Palin. She's more experienced than Obama ever dreamed of being.

Puh-lease.

I am not suggesting Obama is experienced. He's not, and that's a drawback. But she was governor of a sparse state for less than two years, and mayor of a very small town. The 13th District Obama represented has more people than the entire state of Alaska. The president of the Clay Aiken fan club probably has more constituents than Palin ever did.

I really have to laugh. In the campaign up to Palin's announcement, the GOP backers were pissing in the Obama Kool Aid with the urine of "experience." Fair enough, I thought, it's a legitimate concern. But as soon as Palin was announced and the Dems questioned her experience, those same critics picked up the pitcher they just pissed in, drank it down, and then said how much more refreshing and satisfying it was than the original Kool Aid.

I am asking, as a concerned DSP brother, to put the urine-filled experience pitcher down. It's very unhealthy. No one should drink their own urine except under extreme circumstances, like if you were caught in a bear trap or stuck in a Joe Biden speech that's gone two hours over its limit.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:23 pm

Brando70 wrote:[

I really have to laugh. In the campaign up to Palin's announcement, the GOP backers were pissing in the Obama Kool Aid with the urine of "experience." Fair enough, I thought, it's a legitimate concern. But as soon as Palin was announced and the Dems questioned her experience, those same critics picked up the pitcher they just pissed in, drank it down, and then said how much more refreshing and satisfying it was than the original Kool Aid.

...Very nicely done sir...and I agree. Those two should never go on about experience as an issue.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:36 pm

I just heard about this and it made me sick to my stomach. I know most of you won't care about this, but it is very disturbing if you care at all about the humane treatment of animals.

Sara Palin has supported the barbaric "sport" of aerial wolf hunting. This is not a sport at all. Read this article and watch the video. I dont know if she partakes in this, but the fact that she allows it to go on is enough for me. She even placed a $150 bounty for every wolf that was killed. Read the article and watch the video and you may wonder if this woman is indeed "pro life".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-hur ... 23388.html

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:42 pm

Obama's plan to cut personal income tax is a magician's distraction, designed to capture he public's eye while he palms the proceeds of enormous tax increases and sweeps them into his magic hat.

Everybody who expects the tax burden on the average American, including the passed through cost for increased corporate, payroll, capital gains etc, to decrease under the administration of the most liberal US Senator working with Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and a Democratic Congress raise your hands.

Plus even if he were to only implement those programs which he has promised, he'd already be into enormous deficit spending

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publicat ... ?ID=411749

And yes, I'm aware that McCain's plan is little better on spending. But OTOH he's not campaigning on anything approaching the McGovernite laundry list of social programs that Obama has promised and he has cuts in corporate taxes that would work with the accompanying cuts in personal income tax rather than undermining them.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:50 pm

Brando70 wrote:
Teal wrote:The people who were dishing out the whole 'inexperience' bullshit regarding Palin. She's more experienced than Obama ever dreamed of being.
Puh-lease.

I am not suggesting Obama is experienced. He's not, and that's a drawback. But she was governor of a sparse state for less than two years, and mayor of a very small town. The 13th District Obama represented has more people than the entire state of Alaska. The president of the Clay Aiken fan club probably has more constituents than Palin ever did.

I totally agree. I think they are equally qualified to be Vice-President.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:55 pm

Leebo33 wrote: I totally agree. I think they are equally qualified to be Vice-President.

Joe Biden agrees. Flip the ticket!

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:59 pm

RobVarak wrote:Obama's plan to cut personal income tax is a magician's distraction, designed to capture he public's eye while he palms the proceeds of enormous tax increases and sweeps them into his magic hat.

Have you given up on the what constitutes a war victory/defeat argument?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:17 pm

JackB1 wrote:I just heard about this and it made me sick to my stomach. I know most of you won't care about this, but it is very disturbing if you care at all about the humane treatment of animals.

Sara Palin has supported the barbaric "sport" of aerial wolf hunting. This is not a sport at all. Read this article and watch the video. I dont know if she partakes in this, but the fact that she allows it to go on is enough for me. She even placed a $150 bounty for every wolf that was killed. Read the article and watch the video and you may wonder if this woman is indeed "pro life".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-hur ... 23388.html

More stomach turning.

For a simple polical photo op this man fed on a pig and chicken fetuses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV7rRPLalGc

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:38 pm

RobVarak wrote:Obama's plan to cut personal income tax is a magician's distraction, designed to capture he public's eye while he palms the proceeds of enormous tax increases and sweeps them into his magic hat.

Both of their plans are actually almost equal in the total $$ needed to pay for them. The difference is Obama wants to increases taxes for those over $250K per year and cuts for the rest of us, while McCain wants to keep the Bush tax cuts that benefit the wealthy only, intact.