OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

[SPTO]

One thing that Mark Shields said was interesting. He noted that this speech sounded like something from a candidate whose party has been out of power the last 12 years. Others on the panel concurred and one even said that the response to McCain saying that "we've betrayed ourselves" only got a tepid response but it was something that needed to be said.

In many ways this was a speech that broke from party ranks even though the meat and potatoes was mainstream Republicanism. Interesting incongruity there eh?

[Inuyasha]

I don't think they were liberals , more the Alex Jones NWO crowd. They did the same thing outside the DNC, but I don't think during Obama's speech. Could have been since it was at an outdoor stadium and they would've been drowned out.

C'mon man, seriously? There is no comparison to the amount of protesting going on at the DNC and the RNC.

Ya outside the convention floor's you're right. But the NWO nuts had the same plan outside the DNC. Jones is a real nutcase, can't believe people actually believe into his s***. He was pointing out 'interment camps' and s*** at the DNC when they were just regular holding spots. He even planned some of these demonstrations.

[greggsand]

Republicans have no rhythm! They couldn't decide when to stand, when to sit. McCain was rolling with all the POW stuff & they kept breaking his flow.

McCain is a cool guy, but he's just so old...

[SPTO]

McCain is a cool guy, but he's just so old...

I agree, if only this were 8 years ago.

[RobVarak]

I fight to restore the pride and principles of our party. We were elected to change Washington, and we let Washington change us. We lost the trust of the American people when some Republicans gave in to the temptations of corruption. We lost their trust when rather than reform government, both parties made it bigger. We lost their trust when instead of freeing ourselves from a dangerous dependence on foreign oil, both parties and Senator Obama passed another corporate welfare bill for oil companies. We lost their trust, when we valued our power over our principles.


We're going to change that. We're going to recover the people's trust by standing up again for the values Americans admire. The party of Lincoln, Roosevelt and Reagan is going to get back to basics.

You can call him a hypocrite or a sell-out or whatever you want. But how many Presidential nominees say something like that in their acceptance speech 2 days after having a Senator speak on his behalf who just 2 elections ago was the VP nominee on the other party's ticket?

He's not typical.

[Inuyasha]

McCain is a cool guy, but he's just so old...

I agree, if only this were 8 years ago.

That was the same thing I was thinking. Think if we had McCain 8 years ago. IMO this country would have been better off. I know for sure that he would have said F You to the NeoCons and wouldn't have picked an incompetent Defense Sec. like Rumsfeld. I doubt he would have invaded Iraq and probably caught bin laden. We'll never know, but I think we would have been better off with him 8 years ago.

And you're right, compared to Gore and Bush, he was the best candidate in 2000.

[SPTO]

In that same vein I was really intrigued about what McCain suggested for his potential government. He basically hinted at a National Government rather then a strictly Republican one. It'd be mighty interesting to see GOP'ers and Dems in the same administration with very important jobs.

The only instance I can think of with that kind of government structure was Britain during WWII and a few years afterwords where every party had a representative in the cabinet. This would be the first time in a peace time situation where you could have that kind of set up.

[JRod]

One thing that Mark Shields said was interesting. He noted that this speech sounded like something from a candidate whose party has been out of power the last 12 years. Others on the panel concurred and one even said that the response to McCain saying that "we've betrayed ourselves" only got a tepid response but it was something that needed to be said.

In many ways this was a speech that broke from party ranks even though the meat and potatoes was mainstream Republicanism. Interesting incongruity there eh?

Even David Brooks agreed with Shields. Those two have turned into my favorite commentators even though I hate David Brooks.

It was directed at independents and democrats. Though the Republican party is going to play the underdog role for McCain and it showed here.

I agree there is definite incongruity with the last 8 years and this position McCain is going to take. I think this opens him up to problem later on.

Kudos to PBS convention coverage. I was flipping and I heard Charlie Gibson talking about balloons. Come on!

[Wilk5280]

One thing I've noticed is that the Republican party has stolen all the air time of every major news network since the announcement of Palin as the VP candidate.

You would have thought the day after Obama's speech would have been reserved for analysis, debate, etc of what he had to say. Not so fast......

It's been about 99.9 percent Palin since that day.

Check the Nielson ratings for her speech last night and then compare them to Obama's. The numbers are pretty even which is amazing considering she's the VP candidate.

One thing is for sure here ladies and gentlemen. No matter what happens or who wins we are truly witnessing history. This election will be unforgettable and it won't be because of recounts.

[Inuyasha]

I think it's because for the first time, both conventions were back to back. And usually, the Pres candidate picks his/her VP the Friday/Saturday before the convention. Also, the attention to Palin is understandable since she was a surprise pick and not everyone knew about her.

[miget33]

Kudos to PBS convention coverage. I was flipping and I heard Charlie Gibson talking about balloons. Come on!

Well then it's a good thing you didn't flipped on MSNBC, there you would have been bombarded with it(balloons), much like Andrea Mitchell was.

[greggsand]

How do you Rep's feel about McCain crapping all over the last 8 years of republican rule?? It's weird. He never even said old GW's name.

I mean, come on, GW is your boy... Why does he have to be a hater?

[Inuyasha]

How do you Rep's feel about McCain crapping all over the last 8 years of republican rule?? It's weird. He never even said old GW's name.

I mean, come on, GW is your boy... Why does he have to be a hater?

I still don't think McCain and Bush are friends. After what Rove did to him in S.Carolina was pretty cheap and scummy. I think he had to vote with Bush the last 4 years though since he needed to setup for this year's run with the ultra right wing.

[SPTO]

How do you Rep's feel about McCain crapping all over the last 8 years of republican rule?? It's weird. He never even said old GW's name.

I mean, come on, GW is your boy... Why does he have to be a hater?

Actually McCain mentioned GW early in the speech and generally said nice things about him. It was very brief.


BTW JRod I've always liked Mark Shields. I've been watching him off and on for at least the last 15 years on CNN/PBS. The guy's always been on the ball IMO.

[greggsand]

How do you Rep's feel about McCain crapping all over the last 8 years of republican rule?? It's weird. He never even said old GW's name.

I mean, come on, GW is your boy... Why does he have to be a hater?

Actually McCain mentioned GW early in the speech and generally said nice things about him. It was very brief.
.

Huh? Did you not hear him refer to the last 8 years as a betrayal? And NO, he never said George W. Bush (or George Senior) by name, only as "the president".

[dbdynsty25]

Huh? Did you not hear him refer to the last 8 years as a betrayal? And NO, he never said George W. Bush (or George Senior) by name, only as "the president".

Isn't that the "proper" way to address the current and past presidents...by the President or Mr. President?

And of course he bashed him...he has to. There is no way in hell he wins the election if he even remotely sticks by ALL of Bush's decisions. I thought McCain did a fantastic job...and even with his "interesting" choice of Tiny Fey as the VP. It just sucks cuz I love Biden too. I just wish he was the candidate and Obama was the VP. Oh well...can't have everything.

[greggsand]

Huh? Did you not hear him refer to the last 8 years as a betrayal? And NO, he never said George W. Bush (or George Senior) by name, only as "the president".

Isn't that the "proper" way to address the current and past presidents...by the President or Mr. President?

I just wish he was the candidate and Obama was the VP.

That would be a slam dunk for me, too. (either way)

It's just odd to see a republican ripping the republicans & the republicans eating it up. Isn't the dems job to point-out how bad republicans suck? I'm so confused??

Other notes from tonight:

- I liked the class move by McCain to say there's a lot of common ground between him & obama (that was really cool), and the all "USA USA USA" people looking around not knowing if they should cheer or boo...

- I liked the line in the McCain video that mentioned 136 people that died in an aircraft carrier accident, but said McCain survived because 'maybe he had more to do' (sic). So the 136 that died didn't have any more to do??? That's cold...

[JRod]

Huh? Did you not hear him refer to the last 8 years as a betrayal? And NO, he never said George W. Bush (or George Senior) by name, only as "the president".

Isn't that the "proper" way to address the current and past presidents...by the President or Mr. President?

I just wish he was the candidate and Obama was the VP.

That would be a slam dunk for me, too. (either way)

It's just odd to see a republican ripping the republicans & the republicans eating it up. Isn't the dems job to point-out how bad republicans suck? I'm so confused??

Other notes from tonight:

- I liked the class move by McCain to say there's a lot of common ground between him & obama (that was really cool), and the all "USA USA USA" people looking around not knowing if they should cheer or boo...

- I liked the line in McCain video that mentioned 136 people that died in an aircraft carrier accident, but said McCain survived because 'maybe he had more to do' (sic). So the 136 that died didn't have any more to do??? That's cold...

When they were shouting USA, they were drowning out the jeers of protesters. That's why they were looking around lost...

[FatPitcher]

Huh? Did you not hear him refer to the last 8 years as a betrayal? And NO, he never said George W. Bush (or George Senior) by name, only as "the president".

Isn't that the "proper" way to address the current and past presidents...by the President or Mr. President?

I just wish he was the candidate and Obama was the VP.

That would be a slam dunk for me, too. (either way)

It's just odd to see a republican ripping the republicans & the republicans eating it up. Isn't the dems job to point-out how bad republicans suck? I'm so confused??

Other notes from tonight:

- I liked the class move by McCain to say there's a lot of common ground between him & obama (that was really cool), and the all "USA USA USA" people looking around not knowing if they should cheer or boo...

- I liked the line in McCain video that mentioned 136 people that died in an aircraft carrier accident, but said McCain survived because 'maybe he had more to do' (sic). So the 136 that died didn't have any more to do??? That's cold...

A lot of Republicans, especially the ever-shrinking libertarian wing of it, have been criticizing Bush and Republicans in Congress for years now. My mom has been a religious (and for some time, evangelical) Republican all her life, and even she talked about how much she disliked Bush's presidency, especially the decision to go to war in Iraq. Many Republicans were happy to see the party go down in flames in 2006 because they felt that Republican leadership and members of Congress had gone off the deep end when it came to spending, Terry Schiavo, corruption, and focusing on winning elections instead of standing up for principles. Remember the "Contract With America"?

Now, the die-hards at the convention probably don't fall into that category, nor do Republicans who don't really keep up with politics, but most informed Republicans have been thoroughly dismayed with the last 8 years aside from a few things:
- tax cuts
- the fight against al-Qaida (not necessarily the invasion of Iraq, however)
- John Roberts and Samuel Alito

[Teal]

And by McCain giving a "throw the bums out speech", that set-ups a strange dynamic for him and his campaign. It was the party's own "bums" that set-up this need for change in Washington. I know the party wants to blame Congressional Democrats for the problems but that's a weak argument because they were only in power for a few years. Prior to this, I didn't hear McCain say he wanted to get rid of Bush/Cheney.

I don't disagree with it but it was very strange to here considering that the majority of today's problems were caused from a Republican Congress but mostly the Bush Administration.

It's not his party that led to Congress having the lowest approval numbers in the history of the country. Harry Reid and Pelosi have done wonders in that arena.

The republican congress have been a bunch of spaghetti-spined doofuses for years, yes...but their approval numbers didn't go into the shitter until the dems took over. Say what you will, and some of it may be true, but that last sentence with it's perception of authoritativeness lacks credibility due to the fact that you have some serious psychos running the house and senate right now. Good lord, Pelosi is as dumb as a football bat. And Harry Reid is a blowhard idiot. He's the one who has said more than once that 'this war is lost' while our boys were over there winning the damned thing. While all that was going on, the republicans stood up for nothing, whined about everything, and the only spines in Congress at the moment are the R's in the house, who finally started to stand up recently.

So change is needed in Washington. But it's needed across the board. Making it about one party or the other as the primary problem is biased and ridiculous, not to mention pretty baseless. All that's really left to argue is who will best bring the kind of change that gets real things done, and my bet is with McCain-Palin.

[FatPitcher]

And by McCain giving a "throw the bums out speech", that set-ups a strange dynamic for him and his campaign. It was the party's own "bums" that set-up this need for change in Washington. I know the party wants to blame Congressional Democrats for the problems but that's a weak argument because they were only in power for a few years. Prior to this, I didn't hear McCain say he wanted to get rid of Bush/Cheney.

I don't disagree with it but it was very strange to here considering that the majority of today's problems were caused from a Republican Congress but mostly the Bush Administration.

It's not his party that led to Congress having the lowest approval numbers in the history of the country. Harry Reid and Pelosi have done wonders in that arena.

Maybe. But I wonder how many people who are surveyed in these Congressional approval polls even realize that the Democrats have control of Congress?

Plus, I am sure a significant percentage of them are unhappy with Democrats for not doing enough to stop a Republican president, not exactly something to gloat about.

[Teal]

And by McCain giving a "throw the bums out speech", that set-ups a strange dynamic for him and his campaign. It was the party's own "bums" that set-up this need for change in Washington. I know the party wants to blame Congressional Democrats for the problems but that's a weak argument because they were only in power for a few years. Prior to this, I didn't hear McCain say he wanted to get rid of Bush/Cheney.

I don't disagree with it but it was very strange to here considering that the majority of today's problems were caused from a Republican Congress but mostly the Bush Administration.

It's not his party that led to Congress having the lowest approval numbers in the history of the country. Harry Reid and Pelosi have done wonders in that arena.

Maybe. But I wonder how many people who are surveyed in these Congressional approval polls even realize that the Democrats have control of Congress?

Plus, I am sure a significant percentage of them are unhappy with Democrats for not doing enough to stop a Republican president, not exactly something to gloat about.

It's not a reality that I care to gloat about, but the truth needs to be told, rather than half truths or out-and-out lies. From the point the democrats took over, their numbers have gone through the floor and have discovered a new subterrainean depth that not even Jaques Cousteau could have imagined. Something's gotta be done, but not even John McCain can do it alone-we have got to stop sending dumbasses to Washington, we are the ones who can eliminate stupid shits like Pelosi, Graham, Reid, and all the other 'career' politicians...but we're too f***in lazy to do it.

[JRod]

And by McCain giving a "throw the bums out speech", that set-ups a strange dynamic for him and his campaign. It was the party's own "bums" that set-up this need for change in Washington. I know the party wants to blame Congressional Democrats for the problems but that's a weak argument because they were only in power for a few years. Prior to this, I didn't hear McCain say he wanted to get rid of Bush/Cheney.

I don't disagree with it but it was very strange to here considering that the majority of today's problems were caused from a Republican Congress but mostly the Bush Administration.

It's not his party that led to Congress having the lowest approval numbers in the history of the country. Harry Reid and Pelosi have done wonders in that arena.

The republican congress have been a bunch of spaghetti-spined doofuses for years, yes...but their approval numbers didn't go into the shitter until the dems took over. Say what you will, and some of it may be true, but that last sentence with it's perception of authoritativeness lacks credibility due to the fact that you have some serious psychos running the house and senate right now. Good lord, Pelosi is as dumb as a football bat. And Harry Reid is a blowhard idiot. He's the one who has said more than once that 'this war is lost' while our boys were over there winning the damned thing. While all that was going on, the republicans stood up for nothing, whined about everything, and the only spines in Congress at the moment are the R's in the house, who finally started to stand up recently.

So change is needed in Washington. But it's needed across the board. Making it about one party or the other as the primary problem is biased and ridiculous, not to mention pretty baseless. All that's really left to argue is who will best bring the kind of change that gets real things done, and my bet is with McCain-Palin.

Partisanship at it's best, huh.

You are looking for any reason not to like Obama-Biden and that reason is solely because they are democrats.

In this cycle we saw McCain go from Maverick to trying to win the support of the base back to Maverick McCain. It's working for him and really his attempt to get the base to like him failed miserably before the primary season. The pick of Palin has energized the base. Which at its core, I believe is the base not really warming to McCain as much as they want a far-right candidate, not a McCain centrist.

The republicans weren't spineless. Hell I would say they were the toughest political group we've seen in a very long time. Rove, Cheney, Delay, and Frist neutered the Democratic Party. Delay singlehandedly gerrymandered huge swathes of the congressional map to solidify republican seats and make more competitive.

I don't have psychos in my congress. I can only vote for one congressperson and two Senators. I don't vote for a party, and I don't vote for any of the leadership.

You just look for anything to bash the Democrats because that's the chief tool of political divisiveness.

The reason why we have poor elected officials because of the attitude, people like you have. You are so filled with your hate of the other party, that you would rather vote for a poor Republican than a good Democrat. I'm being generic there and not claiming that McCain is a poor Republican. Your attitude is shared by the base of both parties and it's the reason why petty partisanship continues to flourish.

Lastly, I said it's a weak argument logically. The dems have failed to take on the President beyond the basic petty arguments they have had with the President. However, let's say they went to the extreme and were able to start impeachment proceedings, the Republicans would be up in arms saying they are abusing their power. If they cut war funding, the Republicans say they are against the troops. Thinking outside of party politics, there is very little they can do. They can't push through legislation because they don't have the numbers to override vetoes. Procedurally they are very week in congress because of the slight lead they hold on to.

By all indications, the Democrats look to score more seats in 08. So if Obama gets in, it might be just the numbers they need to pass issues they want. If McCain wins, it looks like boths sides will need to compromise to get anything done. Because Bush is anti-Democrat to the farthest right extreme, and with weak numbers (seat not polls) the Dems can't override the veto. I don't believe McCain would run his whitehouse the same way.

[Jackdog]

It's just odd to see a republican ripping the republicans & the republicans eating it up. Isn't the dems job to point-out how bad republicans suck? I'm so confused??

Other notes from tonight:

- I liked the class move by McCain to say there's a lot of common ground between him & obama (that was really cool), and the all "USA USA USA" people looking around not knowing if they should cheer or boo...

Not a surprise if they are true conservitive republicans. They believe in the free market, less government interference, lower taxes, and less government spending. 2 out of 4 isn't good enough. My family and I were guests of Congressman Jim Ramstad at the convention last night. It was very interesting. My son enjoyed it and that was cool.

Carol and I enjoyed Cindy McCain's speech. We looked past the delivery and focused on the content. We had no idea she did so much Humanitarian work. We also enjoyed John McCain's as well. All in all it was a a fun night for my family.

PS....How did the Bill O'Rielly/Obama interview go?

[matthewk]

This really has been a historical 2 weeks.

- First black candidate for president
- First GOP woman for VP
- Having a past VP candidate from one side speak at the other's convention just a few years later.

I missed most of McCain's speech. I'm actually a little surprised he seemed to have done so well. Now I'll have to watch it online somewhere. 1 hour though? Whew!

I can't wait to see some debates now between Obama/McCain and Palin/Biden.