OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

[SPTO]

Well...Palin dropped the ball and i'm not talking about the content really.

1. She sounded really hokey for most of the speech. The "jokes" were forced and didn't feel very natural.

2. She lionized McCain to the point that it nearly became a verbal BJ. I know that's not uncommon for VP nomination speeches but it came off badly here. She even told stories of McCain that would've been better suited for him to tell.

3. Other then gushing about her family she didn't really introduce herself to the country very well.

4. The mudslinging while expected came off horribly. She sounded very shrill at times and some of the things she said were downright mean. There's a fine line between normal political attacks and doing said attacks with a twinge of hate/envy. It felt like the latter to me.

She just didn't portray herself as someone with a lot of substance. She seems to be wafer thin as a candidate IMO.

[Naples39]

Looks like Obama isn't the only candidate who used to attend a church with a pastor on the wrong side of the in/sane line.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/0 ... 23205.html

What you see in a terrorist -- that's called the invisible enemy. There has always been an invisible enemy. What you see in Iraq, basically, is a manifestation of what's going on in this unseen world called the spirit world. ... We need to think like Jesus thinks. We are in a time and a season of war, and we need to think like that. We need to develop that instinct. We need to develop as believers the instinct that we are at war, and that war is contending for your faith. ... Jesus called us to die. You're worried about getting hurt? He's called us to die. Listen, you know we can't even follow him unless you are willing to give up your life. ... I believe that Jesus himself operated from that position of war mode. Everyone say "war mode." Now you say, wait a minute Ed, he's like the good shepherd, he's loving all the time and he's kind all the time. Oh yes he is -- but I also believe that he had a part of his thoughts that knew that he was in a war.

Oh man...Sh-t's gonna hit the fan if that gets out into the mainstream media.

BTW this speech has gotten worse as it's gone on.

I've read this excerpt twice, and I'm not sure I understand any problems with the metaphor. Then again I'm an atheist so what do I know.

As for Palin's speech, I thought she was more poised and confident than I expected. Not exactly content/policy heavy, but that seems to be par for the course these days.

The only real surprise for me from the evening was ridiculing Obama so much for being a community organizer. I understand they're trying to say it's no qualification for president, but it came across as ridiculing him which I thought was a bit much.

[Feanor]

Jesus in war mode sounds pretty off to me, but if you read the article, you'll find more obviously damning stuff like saying he questioned the "salvation" of anyone who voted for Kerry.

I hadn't heard of neopentecostal dominionists before tonight, but now I find them more than a bit worrying, not that I am vouching for or agreeing with every thing said in this long article.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/8/29/182057/888

[Naples39]

Well...Palin dropped the ball and i'm not talking about the content really.

1. She sounded really hokey for most of the speech. The "jokes" were forced and didn't feel very natural.

2. She lionized McCain to the point that it nearly became a verbal BJ. I know that's not uncommon for VP nomination speeches but it came off badly here. She even told stories of McCain that would've been better suited for him to tell.

3. Other then gushing about her family she didn't really introduce herself to the country very well.

4. The mudslinging while expected came off horribly. She sounded very shrill at times and some of the things she said were downright mean. There's a fine line between normal political attacks and doing said attacks with a twinge of hate/envy. It felt like the latter to me.

She just didn't portray herself as someone with a lot of substance. She seems to be wafer thin as a candidate IMO.

C'mon, her speech in regards in 2 and 4 are totally par for the course.

Shrill??--nowhere near Hillary territory.

Forced jokes?? Much better than Gore's attempts at humor in 2000. As a Gore supporter then, I would cringe every time you could feel a joke coming. I thought Palin's jokes came off fine.

Lastly, the 'hokeyness' was definitely intended, and the target audience would use a different word to describe the down-homey feel of it.

Btw, did other networks show the women being escorted out? I was watching on PBS and they showed it briefly with no comments or explanation.

[RobVarak]

I thought Giuliani was perfect grist for the base's mill, and Palin was brilliant. And that's before I came here and saw the reactions. Now I think I may have underestimated how good she was.

-----Edit
Just got the Obama "reaction" and a quick had a quick peek at Daily Kos. I did underestimate...

[Feanor]

No surprises here, then.

[SPTO]

C'mon, her speech in regards in 2 and 4 are totally par for the course.

Shrill??--nowhere near Hillary territory.

Forced jokes?? Much better than Gore's attempts at humor in 2000. As a Gore supporter then, I would cringe every time you could feel a joke coming. I thought Palin's jokes came off fine.

Lastly, the 'hokeyness' was definitely intended, and the target audience would use a different word to describe the down-homey feel of it.

Btw, did other networks show the women being escorted out? I was watching on PBS and they showed it briefly with no comments or explanation.

Hillary to her credit has gotten a lot better then she was 2-3 years ago in that regard. Palin still came off shrill no matter how you slice and dice it.

As for point #2 it's par for the course but she laid it on pretty thick. She sounded positively giddy and like a school girl when talking about McCain.

You beat me on the Gore part so I concede that.

If that hokeyness is what's gonna be part of her appeal then i'm gonna hate listening to every speech she makes.

[FatPitcher]

Jesus in war mode sounds pretty off to me, but if you read the article, you'll find more obviously damning stuff like saying he questioned the "salvation" of anyone who voted for Kerry.

I hadn't heard of neopentecostal dominionists before tonight, but now I find them more than a bit worrying:

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/8/29/182057/888

No need to worry. Get Janet Reno on the case.

I also did not think much of dogging Obama for being a community organizer. That's ancient history.

I wondered why Giuliani's voice sounded odd and annoying and then I realized it was Ann Coulter in drag.

Huckabee's Desk speech probably shouldn't have included anything about desks at all.

Palin seemed to have trouble with the teleprompter. I think it was not scrolling fast enough in some cases, making her pause and wait for it. Some parts of the speech sounded good and others (the anti-Obama stuff in particular) sounded unrehearsed. I think her speech will generally be viewed as average by men and excellent by women. Things like the emotion in her voice awhen she was talking about McCain and talking about kids with special needs are the difference. I think they will also relate well to the bit about taking on the "Good ol' boy" network.

[matthewk]

I must have been watching a different speech than most that have posted so far because I think Palin came across great. The speeches before here were awkward, but hers was awesome.

[Feanor]

When are the debates, anyone know?

[SPTO]

Palin seemed to have trouble with the teleprompter. I think it was not scrolling fast enough in some cases, making her pause and wait for it. Some parts of the speech sounded good and others (the anti-Obama stuff in particular) sounded unrehearsed. I think her speech will generally be viewed as average by men and excellent by women. Things like the emotion in her voice awhen she was talking about McCain and talking about kids with special needs are the difference. I think they will also relate well to the bit about taking on the "Good ol' boy" network.

I agree with you there. Men will definitely have a different reaction to her various inflection and tone of voice then women. I liked the part about special needs because I'm one of those but thankfully i'm in Canada where we get great support. I don't know how bad it is in the US in that regard.

The thing is, wouldn't an advocate for special needs and such need to create programs for them? Big incongruity there when you're railing against big government

[greggsand]

I must have been watching a different speech than most that have posted so far because I think Palin came across great. The speeches before here were awkward, but hers was awesome.

Awesome? Wow, we were watching different speeches... She should leave the jokes to Tina Fey.

I was wondering what the "good old boys" were thinking while she speaking.

[JRod]

I think she was going for hockeyness not hokeyness.


The dems have set up the Bush benchmark with Palin, hope they fail and when the succeed, maybe only marginally, they look good.

The bar is set so low for Palin that it would be hard for her to fail. Basically all she had to do was not to fall down for it to be a success. That's a dangerous game for the dems to play because that's how Bush got elected.


Is it me or has John McCain made himself irrelevant in this campaign? We aren't talking about McCain v Obama, it's Palin v Obama. I guess that's great because all the minuses about McCain are overlooked. I bet Palin speech gets better ratings than McCain. Though for McCain that might be a brilliant strategy.

Palin wasn't brilliant she did what she had to do. Brilliant is people saying, "That's the person we should have as the Republican nominee." That was the talk of Obama in 04 and in some ways overshadowed Kerry. I don't think anyone tonight think that Palin should be the Republican nominee.

To be fair, she did a good job and didn't come off shrill. She wasn't exciting to listen to, nor was her speech any more substantive than Obama's but it was her introduction in a national setting. It was far from brilliant and far from being a total disappointment.

The other thing McCain and the reps are doing is setting up any attacks as sexist or the big bad man going after poor little Palin. That is a landmine for Biden in the debate. If he raises his voice, is smug or condescending or plays daddy, McCain/Palin can use that to their advantage.

[Teal]

I thought Giuliani was perfect grist for the base's mill, and Palin was brilliant. And that's before I came here and saw the reactions. Now I think I may have underestimated how good she was.

-----Edit
Just got the Obama "reaction" and a quick had a quick peek at Daily Kos. I did underestimate...

My sentiments exactly. All this talk about shrillness on Palin's part is pretty rich considering the shrillness in here...

[SPTO]

My sentiments exactly. All this talk about shrillness on Palin's part is pretty rich considering the shrillness in here...

Yeah, but we're not running for high office

[JRod]

I thought Giuliani was perfect grist for the base's mill, and Palin was brilliant. And that's before I came here and saw the reactions. Now I think I may have underestimated how good she was.

-----Edit
Just got the Obama "reaction" and a quick had a quick peek at Daily Kos. I did underestimate...

Honestly what did you expect from DailyKos?

[Inuyasha]

Rural America probably loved it, Urban America thought it was hokey.

[matthewk]

The bar is set so low for Palin that it would be hard for her to fail. Basically all she had to do was not to fall down for it to be a success. That's a dangerous game for the dems to play because that's how Bush got elected.

The bar is low for her? Seriously? Have seen the 24/7 coverage of Palin & family the past 5 days? There is more pressure on her to perform right now than Obama, Biden, and McCain combined.

[Teal]

My sentiments exactly. All this talk about shrillness on Palin's part is pretty rich considering the shrillness in here...

Yeah, but we're not running for high office

[fsquid]

thought her speech came off quite well. We'll see how she does on her feet now. The ones that keep America running are counting on McCain and Palin to pull this through.

[JRod]

The bar is set so low for Palin that it would be hard for her to fail. Basically all she had to do was not to fall down for it to be a success. That's a dangerous game for the dems to play because that's how Bush got elected.

The bar is low for her? Seriously? Have seen the 24/7 coverage of Palin & family the past 5 days? There is more pressure on her to perform right now than Obama, Biden, and McCain combined.

[Not appropriate what I typed]. The media is ripping her right now because she's new. And there's very little info of her, and couple that with the media's hunger to sensationalize everything.

There is a difference between pressure to perform and pressure not to fail. Right now all she has to do is not fail.

Is the media asking her to make substantive speeches. No? Heck they haven't even started to ask her about foreign policy, domestic issues, what her plans are, etc.

The pundits all said this was a speech for her to introduce herself to the country. That's what she did. Her only goal was to give an introductory speech that wasn't a failure. She accomplished that. In the debates it will be to show she's competent.

[Jackdog]

I must have been watching a different speech than most that have posted so far because I think Palin came across great. The speeches before here were awkward, but hers was awesome.

Ditto.

I find it very funny how people are saying she spent too much time ridiculing Obama. My bad "The Messiah". Did anyone watch the DNC last week. Google McCain "ripped" at DNC and get back to me. This is an even playing field correct? Is it now a bad thing for the opposing party too point out the flaws of the other. Or is a bad thing when a Republican does it? I know Olbermann was upset about it. That was the first thing out of his mouth(Yep it was empty,Obama is in another state) tonight.

I thought she did very well. I liked how she told the media to "f*ck off" tonight. I thought that was great. What a second my wife and I are urban America. Nevermind I thought she was hokey.

[SPTO]

thought her speech came off quite well. We'll see how she does on her feet now. The ones that keep America running are counting on McCain and Palin to pull this through.

So there are no economic types that'd like Obama/Biden?

Just remember the last time a Democrat was in office America was going through a boom economy that was compared (tho I think it was over exaggerated) to the '20s.

[Jackdog]

You are a fool if you think that. The media is ripping her right now because she's new. And there's very little info of her, and couple that with the media's hunger to sensationalize everything.

There is a difference between pressure to perform and pressure not to fail. Right now all she has to do is not fail.

Is the media asking her to make substantive speeches. No? Heck they haven't even started to ask her about foreign policy, domestic issues, what her plans are, etc.

The pundits all said this was a speech for her to introduce herself to the country. That's what she did. Her only goal was to give an introductory speech that wasn't a failure. She accomplished that. In the debates it will be to show she's competent.

You know John if you didn't start off so many of your posts with "Your Ingnorant" or a"Fool" or "Fanboy" you might not be thought of as such a dick. It takes away from the solid points that you do make at times. Just saying.

[JRod]

You are a fool if you think that. The media is ripping her right now because she's new. And there's very little info of her, and couple that with the media's hunger to sensationalize everything.

There is a difference between pressure to perform and pressure not to fail. Right now all she has to do is not fail.

Is the media asking her to make substantive speeches. No? Heck they haven't even started to ask her about foreign policy, domestic issues, what her plans are, etc.

The pundits all said this was a speech for her to introduce herself to the country. That's what she did. Her only goal was to give an introductory speech that wasn't a failure. She accomplished that. In the debates it will be to show she's competent.

You know John if you didn't start off so many of your posts with "Your Ingnorant" or a"Fool" or "Fanboy" you might not be thought of as such a dick. It takes away from the solid points that you do make at times. Just saying.

I agree and I edited before you posted. Take a look.