OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

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Post by Inuyasha »

Teal wrote:Let's get this straight-you think that the selection of Palin is a 'bloody embarassment'? Is that what you're talking about? And the McCain campaign hasn't said anything resembling the idea that they went and met her, googled her, and picked her. Nothing at all. If an 'unnamed source inside the McCain camp' did that, I hold that in about as high regard as people in Arizona seeing little green men. It's terribly easy to pass false stories off as credible touting 'unnamed sources'.

So what, with truth in mind, is so 'bloody embarrassing' about all this, other than the embarrassing papparazzi tactics being employed by media outlets over Palin's daughter?
Now you're talking out of your ass. If the role was reversed, and it was Obama going thru this, you'd be posting it as end all be all. I ca'n see it now, your post would have been something like this : 'EVEN HIS ADVISORS DON'T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE bawahahaha.' etc...

Come one now, admit it. You know it too. Admit it to yourself and just stop. You're embarassing yourself.
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Post by XXXIV »

I guess when you really think about it...it is pretty hard to believe that they didnt know bout the daughter...so they knew...why pick her?...

To feed the media pig?..?...doesnt make sense to me at all.
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Post by FatPitcher »

dougb wrote:
Teal wrote:
dougb wrote:So 1 day set aside for vetting Palin on the ground plus some google checks 8O

Did Lieberman bring over some of those crack Democratric strategists with him to help run McCain's campaign - cause it has all he hallmarks of Kerry 04, Gore '00, and Dukakis '88. :wink:

Gotta grab some popcorn and sit down on the deck to watch some more of this car accident of a campaign :D .

Best wishes,

Doug
Better check your sources doug:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00710.html

It's more of the grasping at straws bullshit...
I thought you didn't believe in the liberal media :wink:

the story is straight from the Mccain camp. Largely sourced to an anonymous campaign aide. I can't find anything in the article to indicate the reporter verified what the campaign told him.

And there's really no reason to grasp at straws - it's a bloody embarassment for McCain on a number of fronts. Usually the one thing Republican's can be depended on to do is run very good, ruthless campaigns. They're the Harlem Globetrotters of campaigning to the Democrats Washington Generals. To be honest it's quite surprising to come back from holiday and see what's developed.

Best wishes,

Doug
Uh oh. I think there should be a Godwin's Rule of DSP related to dougb and politics. Once he's posted, we just stop posting and go read the dailykos comments section to save ourselves the time.

Or we could talk more about how people post news articles as if they are god's truth one day and totally discount articles from the same source the next.

Or we could talk about how those noble, idealistic Democrats are always overrun by the ruthless Republicans :roll:
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Post by Inuyasha »

I will take a timeout in this thread. I think we get too riled up here since politics/religion do that to people. I am reaching a breaking point. I think we all have our own opinions and nothing is going to change that. Sorry if I offended anyone, but that's the way s*** rolls with politics.
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Post by Teal »

Inuyasha wrote:
Teal wrote:Let's get this straight-you think that the selection of Palin is a 'bloody embarassment'? Is that what you're talking about? And the McCain campaign hasn't said anything resembling the idea that they went and met her, googled her, and picked her. Nothing at all. If an 'unnamed source inside the McCain camp' did that, I hold that in about as high regard as people in Arizona seeing little green men. It's terribly easy to pass false stories off as credible touting 'unnamed sources'.

So what, with truth in mind, is so 'bloody embarrassing' about all this, other than the embarrassing papparazzi tactics being employed by media outlets over Palin's daughter?
Now you're talking out of your ass. If the role was reversed, and it was Obama going thru this, you'd be posting it as end all be all. I ca'n see it now, your post would have been something like this : 'EVEN HIS ADVISORS DON'T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE bawahahaha.' etc...

Come one now, admit it. You know it too. Admit it to yourself and just stop. You're embarassing yourself.
So you want me to say I'm embarrassing myself because YOU think I am?! Whoo-hoo-hoo...that's funny! :lol:
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Post by XXXIV »

Inuyasha wrote:I will take a timeout in this thread. .
Im hitting you with a Technical...you dont have any TOs left.
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Post by dougb »

Teal wrote:Let's get this straight-you think that the selection of Palin is a 'bloody embarassment'? Is that what you're talking about? And the McCain campaign hasn't said anything resembling the idea that they went and met her, googled her, and picked her. Nothing at all. If an 'unnamed source inside the McCain camp' did that, I hold that in about as high regard as people in Arizona seeing little green men. It's terribly easy to pass false stories off as credible touting 'unnamed sources'.

So what, with truth in mind, is so 'bloody embarrassing' about all this, other than the embarrassing papparazzi tactics being employed by media outlets over Palin's daughter?
From the New York Times. And please note that there are several direct attributions from named sources.

"“They didn’t speak to anyone in the Legislature, they didn’t speak to anyone in the business community,” said Lyda Green, the State Senate president, who lives in Wasilla, where Ms. Palin served as mayor.

Representative Gail Phillips, a Republican and former speaker of the State House, said the widespread surprise in Alaska when Ms. Palin was named to the ticket made her wonder how intensively the McCain campaign had vetted her.

“I started calling around and asking, and I have not been able to find one person that was called,” Ms. Phillips said. “I called 30 to 40 people, political leaders, business leaders, community leaders. Not one of them had heard. Alaska is a very small community, we know people all over, but I haven’t found anybody who was asked anything.”

The current mayor of Wasilla, Dianne M. Keller, said she had not heard of any efforts to look into Ms. Palin’s background. And Randy Ruedrich, the state Republican Party chairman, said he knew nothing of any vetting that had been conducted.

State Senator Hollis French, a Democrat who is directing the ethics investigation, said that no one asked him about the allegations. “I heard not a word, not a single contact,” he said.

A number of Republicans said the McCain campaign had to some degree tied its hands in its effort to keep the selection process so secret."

So if the campaign has so carefully vetted her you'd expect that at least some people would have known about it. More importantly you'd expect the campaign to appear far more prepared for the media than they appear to be. I'm sure they did more than simply googled her and I was writing a bit tongue in cheek, but there are a whole hell of a lot of indications that something was quite amiss in the vetting process.

As for the embarassment, I think that there's little doubt that the campaign is embarassed by the pregnant daughter issue - it would be better if the whole issue had remained a family affair out of the public eye but that's not the way it worked out. Certainly the ongoing investigation of Palin can't be too good from a public relations standpoint at the very least. Instead of being able to trumpet their VP selection, as I'm sure they'd prefer, they're being forced onto the defensive.

Or are you going to argue that the whole medial flap is a positive for Mccain?
Last edited by dougb on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dougb »

FatPitcher wrote:
dougb wrote:
Teal wrote: Better check your sources doug:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00710.html

It's more of the grasping at straws bullshit...
I thought you didn't believe in the liberal media :wink:

the story is straight from the Mccain camp. Largely sourced to an anonymous campaign aide. I can't find anything in the article to indicate the reporter verified what the campaign told him.

And there's really no reason to grasp at straws - it's a bloody embarassment for McCain on a number of fronts. Usually the one thing Republican's can be depended on to do is run very good, ruthless campaigns. They're the Harlem Globetrotters of campaigning to the Democrats Washington Generals. To be honest it's quite surprising to come back from holiday and see what's developed.

Best wishes,

Doug
Uh oh. I think there should be a Godwin's Rule of DSP related to dougb and politics. Once he's posted, we just stop posting and go read the dailykos comments section to save ourselves the time.

Or we could talk more about how people post news articles as if they are god's truth one day and totally discount articles from the same source the next.

Or we could talk about how those noble, idealistic Democrats are always overrun by the ruthless Republicans :roll:
Very witty - btw, any examples where I quoted post news articles as if they were god's truth, or are you simply grasping at straws? :roll:

Best wishes,

Doug
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Post by Inuyasha »

XXXIV wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:I will take a timeout in this thread. .
Im hitting you with a Technical...you dont have any TOs left.
deleted for the side of good taste
Last edited by Inuyasha on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Teal »

Tell you what. I'll take your McCain embarrassment claims and raise you one 'pathetic human being': Obama spokesman Mark Bubriski.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finke ... d-yourself

Furthermore, for your reading entertainment:

http://www.johnmccain.com/mccainreport/ ... 2826498d31

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalert ... 0902.asp#1
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Post by Inuyasha »

seriously, I really quit this thread. this s*** is depressing me. back to gaming.
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Post by dougb »

Teal wrote:Tell you what. I'll take your McCain embarrassment claims and raise you one 'pathetic human being': Obama spokesman Mark Bubriski.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finke ... d-yourself

Furthermore, for your reading entertainment:

http://www.johnmccain.com/mccainreport/ ... 2826498d31

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalert ... 0902.asp#1
To be fair, Teal, Bulmilller's stories need to be reviewed with a fine toothed comb (particularly after her creative writing on WMD's in Iraq).

Best wishes,

Doug
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Post by JackB1 »

Inuyasha wrote:I will take a timeout in this thread. I think we get too riled up here since politics/religion do that to people. I am reaching a breaking point. I think we all have our own opinions and nothing is going to change that. Sorry if I offended anyone, but that's the way s*** rolls with
politics.
The idea of these threads is not to change anyone's opinions. It's to discuss all sides and see what everyone thinks. You are 100% right. Nobody is going to change. But it's good to question, instead of just following blindly.

If McCain had a plan that would get us completely off foreign oil ahead of Obama and wasn't so war crazy, I would vote across party lines.
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Post by RobVarak »

First "real" night thoughts:

1. Fred Thompson was better tonight than during any part of his campaign. Framed the race in exactly the manner in which the race must be framed if McCain wants to win. This is the first time that the GOP has scored points with any sort of flair in prime time. Felt like the battle is finally joined. Throat clearing was a serious problem. WTF?

2. Lieberman was engaging, and I was surprised that he endorsed Palin as well almost as much as I was surprised that he was so aggressive in going after Obama. I expected a much more personal, limited address. Also had a throat-clearing problem. Can someone get these guys a lozenge?

3. How on earth can they allow the hall to be so empty? I don't know if the room is particularly huge or what, but if you have to pay people to fly in and cheer you should do it.

4. Presentation in general was poor. The big vid screen is fine, but the images they chose to show were often odd or distracting. They need to get their s*** together before Thurs. night.
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Post by Teal »

RobVarak wrote:First "real" night thoughts:

1. Fred Thompson was better tonight than during any part of his campaign. Framed the race in exactly the manner in which the race must be framed if McCain wants to win. This is the first time that the GOP has scored points with any sort of flair in prime time. Felt like the battle is finally joined. Throat clearing was a serious problem. WTF?

2. Lieberman was engaging, and I was surprised that he endorsed Palin as well almost as much as I was surprised that he was so aggressive in going after Obama. I expected a much more personal, limited address. Also had a throat-clearing problem. Can someone get these guys a lozenge?

3. How on earth can they allow the hall to be so empty? I don't know if the room is particularly huge or what, but if you have to pay people to fly in and cheer you should do it.

4. Presentation in general was poor. The big vid screen is fine, but the images they chose to show were often odd or distracting. They need to get their s*** together before Thurs. night.
Agree on all counts...
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Post by greggsand »

RobVarak wrote:First "real" night thoughts:

1. Throat clearing was a serious problem. WTF?

2. Can someone get these guys a lozenge?
Yeah, it's was the Flem party tonight.... WTF? I know these dudes are old, get them a 'cough' button!
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Post by Jackdog »

JackB1 wrote:
If McCain had a plan that would get us completely off foreign oil ahead of Obama and wasn't so war crazy, I would vote across party lines.
McCain has the same plan as Obama except he's willing to use the words "Domestic drilling" to help in the process. As long as we use oil we will need to import foreign oil. Obama mentioned oil from the Middle East.

Anyone that would call McCain "War crazy" after what he's been through is nieve or eating Democractic talking points with a spoon. Are you talking about these truthful comments from McCain?
Q: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years — ” (cut off by McCain)

McCain: “Make it a hundred.”

Q: “Is that …” (cut off)

McCain: “We’ve been in South Korea … we’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea 50 years or so. That would be fine with me. As long as Americans …”

Q: [tries to say something]

McCain: “As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. That’s fine with me, I hope that would be fine with you, if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where Al Qaeda is training and equipping and recruiting and motivating people every single day.

Of course the Democrats say that McCain wants to keep US troops in Iraq for 100 years under the same conditions they're fighting right now. Not true. McCain said that long-term US presence in Iraq would depend on the violence and stability in the region.

He also suggested the "Surge" to end the war in Iraq faster. It's worked so well that we turned over the Anbar Provence(Formally The Triangle Of Death) to the Iraqi Goverment yesterday. That was huge news for those of us that's been to that provence. I still can't believe it only took 5 years. Sadly the media would rather rail on the 17 year old daughter of Palin than really report the success in Iraq. Now it looks like we will have most of the troops out Iraq by 2011. Our troops have turned the war in Iraq around in the last year due to the Surge.

How about Afghanistan? What do you think Obama is going to do about that war? Don't you think we should be there? Obama does. He also sounds like he would go into Pakistan. In his speech at the DNC he said "John McCain likes to say that he'll follow bin Laden to the Gates of Hell - but he won't even go to the cave where he lives." He's in Pakistain.

I am all for getting Bin Laden no matter what country he's in so Obama's comment doesn't bother me at all. But to think we aren't going to have to have troops in combat if Obama is in the White House is just dreaming.
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Post by fsquid »

Liberal are too worried about if Palin's beliefs that God has a plan disqualify her from office.
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Post by TheHiddenTrack »

Obama answered the 14 questions on science from the sciencedebate.com. http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=40
1. Innovation. Science and technology have been responsible for half of the growth of the American economy since WWII. But several recent reports question America’s continued leadership in these vital areas. What policies will you support to ensure that America remains the world leader in innovation?

Our talent for innovation is still the envy of the world, but we face unprecedented challenges that demand new approaches. For example, the U.S. annually imports $53 billion more in advanced technology products than we export. China is now the world’s number one high technology exporter. This competitive situation may only worsen over time because the number of U.S. students pursuing technical careers is declining. The U.S. ranks 17th among developed nations in the proportion of college students receiving degrees in science or engineering; we were in third place thirty years ago....

My administration will work to guarantee to students access to strong science curriculum at all grade levels so they graduate knowing how science works – using hands-on, IT-enhanced education. As president, I will launch a Service Scholarship program that pays undergraduate or graduate teaching education costs for those who commit to teaching in a high-need school, and I will prioritize math and science teachers. Additionally, my proposal to create Teacher Residency Academies will also add 30,000 new teachers to high-need schools – training thousands of science and math teachers. I will also expand access to higher education, work to draw more of these students into science and engineering, and increase National Science Foundation (NSF) graduate fellowships.
Overall I'm pleased with his answers. Although if all he said was "I will restore the basic principle that government decisions should be based on the best-available, scientifically valid evidence and not on the ideological predispositions of agency officials or political appointees." I would have been happy. He has a decent overall grasp of what science is and understands how intertwined science is with our world and our nation's success. I'm pleased he values science education and has a plan that will hopefully help fix our current school system, if that's even possible.

Here is a basic overview:
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008 ... ers-y.html
ScienceDebate2008: What policies will you support to ensure that America remains the world leader in innovation?

Barack Obama: My administration will increase funding for basic research in physical and life sciences, mathematics and engineering at a rate that would double basic research budgets over the next decade.

SD2008: What policies would you support to meet demand for energy while ensuring an economically and environmentally sustainable future?

Obama: First, I have proposed programs that, taken together, will increase federal investment in the clean energy research, development and deployment to $150 billion over ten years.... Second, it is essential that we create a strong, predictable market for energy innovations with concrete goals that speed introduction of innovative products and provide a strong incentive for private R&D investment in energy technologies.

SD2008: What is your position on government regulation and funding of stem cell research?

Obama: I believe that the restrictions that President Bush has placed on funding of human embryonic stem cell research have handcuffed our scientists and hindered our ability to compete with other nations. As president, I will lift the current administration’s ban on federal funding of research on embryonic stem cell lines created after August 9, 2001 through executive order, and I will ensure that all research on stem cells is conducted ethically and with rigorous oversight.

SD2008: Is it acceptable for elected officials to hold back or alter scientific reports if they conflict with their own views, and how will you balance scientific information with politics and personal beliefs in your decision-making?

Obama: I will restore the basic principle that government decisions should be based on the best-available, scientifically valid evidence and not on the ideological predispositions of agency officials or political appointees. More broadly, I am committed to creating a transparent and connected democracy, using cutting-edge technologies to provide a new level of transparency, accountability, and participation for America’s citizens.
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Post by matthewk »

Inuyasha wrote:seriously, I really quit this thread. this s*** is depressing me. back to gaming.
How many times are you going to quit? Is Siam really Brett Favre? :)
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Post by matthewk »

JackB1 wrote:If McCain had a plan that would get us completely off foreign oil ahead of Obama and wasn't so war crazy, I would vote across party lines.
I recall Obama stating that he would get us 100% off foreign oil in ten years. Any idea how he would go about that? I think it's ludicrous to think we can do that in 10 years, if at all in my lifetime.
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Post by pk500 »

TheHiddenTrack wrote:Obama answered the 14 questions on science from the sciencedebate.com. http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=40
1. Innovation. Science and technology have been responsible for half of the growth of the American economy since WWII. But several recent reports question America’s continued leadership in these vital areas. What policies will you support to ensure that America remains the world leader in innovation?

Our talent for innovation is still the envy of the world, but we face unprecedented challenges that demand new approaches. For example, the U.S. annually imports $53 billion more in advanced technology products than we export. China is now the world’s number one high technology exporter. This competitive situation may only worsen over time because the number of U.S. students pursuing technical careers is declining. The U.S. ranks 17th among developed nations in the proportion of college students receiving degrees in science or engineering; we were in third place thirty years ago....

My administration will work to guarantee to students access to strong science curriculum at all grade levels so they graduate knowing how science works – using hands-on, IT-enhanced education.

REST SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
Track:

Is there a government program -- other than military spending -- that Obama doesn't support?

That's what struck me the most about his speech last Thursday. Yes, it was uplifting. Yes, it was intelligent. Yes, it was beautiful oratory.

But when he entered the "laundry list" segment of the speech, outlining every program he was going to accomplish during his term, two thoughts immediately entered my mind:

1. How will he pay for this while still cutting taxes for the middle class, as he promised? The only one of his litany of programs for which he attached a dollar amount was energy -- $150 billion. I see that figure tossed around in the interview excerpt you posted above, so at least he's consistent. But is that the only program for which he's done the math?

2. Was he going to add walking on water and delivering a World Series championship to the Cubs to the list? It was about all that was missing from his list.

Obama has made more campaign promises than any candidate that I can remember since my first presidential election as an eligible voter, in 1984. I'm very skeptical because I've always come from the school of "underpromise and overdeliver."

If this guy can "overpromise and overdeliver," then it will be super for this country. But it's Washington politics, so I have my doubts.

Take care,
PK
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Post by TheGamer »

pk500 wrote:2. Was he going to add walking on water and delivering a World Series championship to the Cubs to the list? It was about all that was missing from his list.

Of course this is why I'm voting for Obama. He's not even in office yet and he has the Cubs with the best record in baseball, even though he's a Sox fan and thinks Cubs fans are tourist and only go to Wrigley for the beer and to site see. :D :D
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Post by matthewk »

I don't get all the spin regarding the vetting process for Palin. The facts seem to state that she was looked at closely, and for more than just a day. They interviewed her and looked into her past pretty thoroughly from the reports I've read. So what if they didn't go door to door in her hometown?

The McCain team in Alaska now is not there to dig up info on Palin, but to assist in handling the media storm that is there.

It is so frustrating to see people have to waste time stating the facts because a few "journalists" feel the need to make stuff up (like the fairy tale of Trig being Bristol's son).
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Post by matthewk »

pk500 wrote:1. How will he pay for this while still cutting taxes for the middle class, as he promised?
That one should be obvious. He's going to take all he needs from corporations he deems are making too much money. Unless of course they are campaign contributors ;)
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