OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

[Inuyasha]

And how come everyone is ignoring what Obama said that children should be off limits. Didn't hear any of the right wingers give Obama credit on that.

O'Reily mentioned it more than once on his show last night. He along with a few of the guests on his show gave Obama his props for making that statement.

Maybe if you listened to what the right wingers had to say once in a while you would know some of these things.

thanks. don't see orielly's show.

[Jared]

Hey...now we know why CNN doesn't ask tough questions to campaign folks. If they do, the campaign will cry foul and pull out. McCain is pulling out of a scheduled Larry King interview because the McCain camp is upset about the Campbell Brown interview I posted earlier in the thread.

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Straight Talk Express!

[Teal]

Hey...now we know why CNN doesn't ask tough questions to campaign folks. If they do, the campaign will cry foul and pull out. McCain is pulling out of a scheduled Larry King interview because the McCain camp is upset about the Campbell Brown interview I posted earlier in the thread.

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Straight Talk Express!

Cute. If she really wanted to know, she'd ask Palin. It was off the cuff, out of left field, and I'm sorry Jared...it wasn't asked in the least bit objectively. But I love how she, once she thought she had him cornered, acted all innocent. She knew when she asked that it was out of left field.

[pk500]

Cute. If she really wanted to know, she'd ask Palin. It was off the cuff, out of left field, and I'm sorry Jared...it wasn't asked in the least bit objectively.

Off the cuff? Out of left field? Since when do national journalists need to submit their questions in advance to campaign windbags for vetting?

Brown's questions were entirely appropriate. She did an excellent job. Bounds talked his way into a corner. Brown didn't make Bounds look like a fool -- he did a fine job of that himself.

Running away from the media is no way to handle this. I guess McCain's legendary thin skin has shed down to cover his entire campaign.

Take care,
PK

[Teal]

Cute. If she really wanted to know, she'd ask Palin. It was off the cuff, out of left field, and I'm sorry Jared...it wasn't asked in the least bit objectively.

Off the cuff? Out of left field? Since when do national journalists need to submit their questions in advance to campaign windbags for vetting?

Brown's questions were entirely appropriate. She did an excellent job. Bounds talked his way into a corner. Brown didn't make Bounds look like a fool -- he did a fine job of that himself.

Running away from the media is no way to handle this. I guess McCain's legendary thin skin has shed down to cover his entire campaign.

Take care,
PK

Well, she could simply watch the convention and wait for her answer...it worked for the media last week...

[TheHiddenTrack]

From the very objective (sarcasm) crooksandliars.com:

On August 10, Karl Rove went on “Face The Nation” to argue that Senator Obama would make an “intensely political choice” for Vice President without regard for the “responsibilities of president.” At the time, Rove believed Obama would choose Tim Kaine, and argued against him by saying this:

With all due respect again to Governor Kaine, he’s been a governor for three years, he’s been able but undistinguished. I don’t think people could really name a big, important thing that he’s done. He was mayor of the 105th largest city in America. And again, with all due respect to Richmond, Virginia, it’s smaller than Chula Vista, California; Aurora, Colorado; Mesa or Gilbert, Arizona; north Las Vegas or Henderson, Nevada. It’s not a big town. So if he were to pick Governor Kaine, it would be an intensely political choice where he said, `You know what? I’m really not, first and foremost, concerned with, is this person capable of being president of the United States?

Karl is so cute. You could almost copy and paste Palin's name in for Kaine and use his exact argument. But I'm sure he's been on Fox blasting McCain ever since he announced the pick.

[Inuyasha]

This reminds me when Clinton was running for President. Media was all over him for Jennifer Flowers, the 'I didn't inhale' thing, etc... Also the republicans back then were saying how Clinton lacked experience on foreign policy.

[Teal]

And for the record, I don't mind tough questions...provided they are even handed and fair to all. It's not a bad question, except I've never heard CNN ask the same of Barack. But she clearly, clearly caught him off guard. Okay, maybe he wasn't prepared enough-I'll give it that. But the fact remains that they don't ask tough questions of the democrat ticket.

[RobVarak]

If true, McCain is compouding a bad decision by bailing on CNN. The first bad choice was to let that ill-prepared moron speak for the campaign.

And Larry's going to do nothing but lob softballs anyway.

[FatPitcher]

Karl is so cute. You could almost copy and paste Palin's name in for Kaine and use his exact argument. But I'm sure he's been on Fox blasting McCain when he announced his pick.

So you're saying that Rove is a hypocrite (news flash!), but also by the same reasoning that Democrats are guilty of Rove-like hypocrisy in viewing Obama and Kaine as serious candidates but not Palin?

Maybe she'd be a worthy pick if she were a bullshitting trial lawyer from North Carolina?

[greggsand]

Hey...now we know why CNN doesn't ask tough questions to campaign folks. If they do, the campaign will cry foul and pull out. McCain is pulling out of a scheduled Larry King interview because the McCain camp is upset about the Campbell Brown interview I posted earlier in the thread.

Straight Talk Express!

Cute. If she really wanted to know, she'd ask Palin. It was off the cuff, out of left field, and I'm sorry Jared...it wasn't asked in the least bit objectively. But I love how she, once she thought she had him cornered, acted all innocent. She knew when she asked that it was out of left field.

Why wouldn't he be prepared to answer that? I didn't see a problem with it at all. It does suck that politicians will just bail on a network if they don't "play nice"...

[matthewk]

The reason I mentioned those names Jared was in the context of someone questioning McCain's judgement. Obama's judgement in choosing who he rolls with is more questionable than McCain.

I understand where you're coming from, but for me, these numerous questionable characters say more about Obama's judgement than McCain's choice of Palin, even if his was for VP.

[pk500]

If true, McCain is compouding a bad decision by bailing on CNN. The first bad choice was to let that ill-prepared moron speak for the campaign.

And Larry's going to do nothing but lob softballs anyway.

Really. Being afraid of Larry King is like the U.S. Marines being afraid of a battle with the Swiss Army.

King is the biggest candyass on cable news TV.

Take care,
PK

[dougb]

So 1 day set aside for vetting Palin on the ground plus some google checks

Did Lieberman bring over some of those crack Democratric strategists with him to help run McCain's campaign - cause it has all he hallmarks of Kerry 04, Gore '00, and Dukakis '88.

Gotta grab some popcorn and sit down on the deck to watch some more of this car accident of a campaign .

Best wishes,

Doug

[Feanor]

What some Dems seem to forget is that in 06 when they won back the majority of the House and Senate they did it based on ending the war in Iraq. If they really wanted to leave Iraq all they had to do was cut the funding for it with a simple majority vote. That's who I would be pissed at if I was aginist the war in Iraq. Maybe that's why Congress has such a low approval rating.

Wouldn't Bush have just vetoed a bill like that?

[matthewk]

Hey...now we know why CNN doesn't ask tough questions to campaign folks. If they do, the campaign will cry foul and pull out. McCain is pulling out of a scheduled Larry King interview because the McCain camp is upset about the Campbell Brown interview I posted earlier in the thread.

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Straight Talk Express!

That guy handled the interview very poorly. I don't think he was anywhere near prepared to be answering questions about Palin.

I wish more "journalists" would hold some of these political people to straight answers more often. Hannity has done a great job of this lately, and you canm see the people squirm when their vaque meandering answers don't get thenm off the hook.

That said, Brown should do this this to some Democrats once in a while. A few days earlier she used the same tactics with some other Republican. That time she asked a question, which he answered pretty definitively. She obviously didn't get the answer she was hoping for though, and kept asking the guy to please answer truthfully, or something to that effect. It wne ton like that for a couple of minutes. The whole exchange came off as very unproefssional.

[matthewk]

What some Dems seem to forget is that in 06 when they won back the majority of the House and Senate they did it based on ending the war in Iraq. If they really wanted to leave Iraq all they had to do was cut the funding for it with a simple majority vote. That's who I would be pissed at if I was aginist the war in Iraq. Maybe that's why Congress has such a low approval rating.

Wouldn't Bush have just vetoed a bill like that?

Maybe. But he was never given the opportunity so we'll never know.

[dougb]

No. But my opinion means nothing. I wasn't elected by my constitutes to check facts and make damn sure everything was in order before sending troops in to kill and be killed.

Fair enough and no matter how you slice and dice it it's still tragic what went down. You're living proof of the horrors of war and what it can do.

That's why I respect anyone friend or foe alike who has ever been in the battle zone.

What some Dems seem to forget is that in 06 when they won back the majority of the House and Senate they did it based on ending the war in Iraq. If they really wanted to leave Iraq all they had to do was cut the funding for it with a simple majority vote. That's who I would be pissed at if I was aginist the war in Iraq. Maybe that's why Congress has such a low approval rating.

I think if you talked to most of the grassroots you'd find that they are mightily pissed off at the Democratic leadership in Congress - on Iraq, FISA, etc. etc. I think right now they're trying to put in place a program to promote better Democrats (e.g. actually have spine, pay more than lip service to progressive causes).

Best wishes,

Doug

[FatPitcher]

What some Dems seem to forget is that in 06 when they won back the majority of the House and Senate they did it based on ending the war in Iraq. If they really wanted to leave Iraq all they had to do was cut the funding for it with a simple majority vote. That's who I would be pissed at if I was aginist the war in Iraq. Maybe that's why Congress has such a low approval rating.

Wouldn't Bush have just vetoed a bill like that?

Vetoing the bill would still mean no funding for Iraq/Afghanistan. Basically, the Democrats caved because 1) they didn't want to be seen as "denying funding for the troops", as part of their attack line from 2004-2006 has been that Bush didn't allocate enough $ for body/Humvee armor and vet benefits and 2) it would have denied them huge amounts of pork tacked on to the war funding bill..

[Slumberland]

Didn't Chris Matthews pull that same stunt with an unprepared Obama surrogate? We all had a nice laugh then too.

[TheHiddenTrack]

So you're saying that Rove is a hypocrite (news flash!), but also by the same reasoning that Democrats are guilty of Rove-like hypocrisy in viewing Obama and Kaine as serious candidates but not Palin?

Maybe she'd be a worthy pick if she were a bullshitting trial lawyer from North Carolina?

I'm trying not to be biased with what I'm about to write but tear me apart if my explanation logically fails.

I don't know what other Democrats are saying about Obama but I'll concede that he isn't the most experienced candidate in the world. And I don't deny that argument. Obviously, because I'm voting for him I have other arguments to justify my vote. Obama has had to go through a serious vetting process by the media and the public to get to his current status. Obviously, through debate and making his case to the public enough people have decided that his experience (or lack thereof) and his other qualities are good enough for them to feel comfortable with him as president. I mean the Clinton's used the experience argument against him constantly.... and now other democrats are using it against Palin, it should be expected.

Now Palin is going through the vetting process in front of the public and people are deciding how they feel about her. I don't know enough about her to know if I feel comfortable with her in spite of her lack of experience. They need to explain how she makes up for her lack of experience. The campaign and Palin need to make the case that she has other qualities (the same way Obama has) that deem her qualified for the office. As I'm learning about her it doesn't impress me that she seems to have such a pedestrian level of knowledge on Iraq.

It's hypocrisy if someone criticizes Palin's lack of experience while not being able to concede Obama's lack of experience but experience isn't why they are voting for him, usually. He overcomes (through their eyes of course) his lack of experience because of x, y, and z. Now McCain's campaign needs to do the same. "She may not be experienced but she's ready because of x, y, and z." So if the democrats ask what makes her ready, Republicans better be ready to tell them what x, y, and z is.

When I look into her I don't see enough other compelling reasons that make up for her lack of experience that would make me feel comfortable, so far. I want to see her thoughts on Iraq because she'd have a lot of responsibility if McCain doesn't finish his term.

But we'll learn more about her in the future through this election cycle.

I'll admit that both candidates have undercut their own messages to a near stalemate. Biden isn't in line with change. And Palin isn't in line with experience.

[Jared]

Karl is so cute. You could almost copy and paste Palin's name in for Kaine and use his exact argument. But I'm sure he's been on Fox blasting McCain when he announced his pick.

So you're saying that Rove is a hypocrite (news flash!), but also by the same reasoning that Democrats are guilty of Rove-like hypocrisy in viewing Obama and Kaine as serious candidates but not Palin?

Maybe she'd be a worthy pick if she were a bullshitting trial lawyer from North Carolina?

The Democrats would be hypocrites IF they made that statement. Thing is, they didn't.

[Teal]

So 1 day set aside for vetting Palin on the ground plus some google checks

Did Lieberman bring over some of those crack Democratric strategists with him to help run McCain's campaign - cause it has all he hallmarks of Kerry 04, Gore '00, and Dukakis '88.

Gotta grab some popcorn and sit down on the deck to watch some more of this car accident of a campaign .

Best wishes,

Doug

Better check your sources doug:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00710.html

It's more of the grasping at straws bullshit...

[dougb]

So 1 day set aside for vetting Palin on the ground plus some google checks

Did Lieberman bring over some of those crack Democratric strategists with him to help run McCain's campaign - cause it has all he hallmarks of Kerry 04, Gore '00, and Dukakis '88.

Gotta grab some popcorn and sit down on the deck to watch some more of this car accident of a campaign .

Best wishes,

Doug

Better check your sources doug:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00710.html

It's more of the grasping at straws bullshit...

I thought you didn't believe in the liberal media

the story is straight from the Mccain camp. Largely sourced to an anonymous campaign aide. I can't find anything in the article to indicate the reporter verified what the campaign told him.

And there's really no reason to grasp at straws - it's a bloody embarassment for McCain on a number of fronts. Usually the one thing Republican's can be depended on to do is run very good, ruthless campaigns. They're the Harlem Globetrotters of campaigning to the Democrats Washington Generals. To be honest it's quite surprising to come back from holiday and see what's developed.

Best wishes,

Doug

[Teal]

Let's get this straight-you think that the selection of Palin is a 'bloody embarassment'? Is that what you're talking about? And the McCain campaign hasn't said anything resembling the idea that they went and met her, googled her, and picked her. Nothing at all. If an 'unnamed source inside the McCain camp' did that, I hold that in about as high regard as people in Arizona seeing little green men. It's terribly easy to pass false stories off as credible touting 'unnamed sources'.

So what, with truth in mind, is so 'bloody embarrassing' about all this, other than the embarrassing papparazzi tactics being employed by media outlets over Palin's daughter?