OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

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pk500
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Post by pk500 »

TheHiddenTrack wrote:But I still can't believe, based upon my initial research and impressions, that you guys are actually comfortable with Palin to take over if something happens to McCain. I like her as a person and everything but as President?
I can't answer that yet. Unlike Rob but like most of the rest of the nation, I know very little about this woman.

I only planned to watch McCain's speech from the convention, just like I only watched Obama's last week, but I definitely will watch Palin's because I want to learn more about her positions and see if her rhetorical skills can match those of Biden.

I also plan to read more about her political career, too. Hopefully the stories will include plenty of pictures. :)

Take care,
PK
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Post by Jackdog »

TheHiddenTrack wrote:
Oh I always enjoy your often contrarian lucid writing style. You and Rob are one of the reasons I visit this forum. While I'm closer to being a democrat than a republican I don't identify with either party. The only label that comes close to fitting me is a skeptic. So I like to hear opposing view points because otherwise my views will never evolve for the better. I'm open and willing to change my mind if I'm given enough evidence to do so.
That's it man. That post makes too much sense. Into the penalty box you go!! :wink: :lol:
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Post by TheHiddenTrack »

pk500 wrote: but I definitely will watch Palin's because I want to learn more about her positions and see if her rhetorical skills can match those of Biden.

Take care,
PK
For a head start, 2006 debate:

http://palintology.com/2006/08/08/decis ... und-table/

I haven't had time to watch much of it yet.
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Post by RobVarak »

TheHiddenTrack wrote:
pk500 wrote: but I definitely will watch Palin's because I want to learn more about her positions and see if her rhetorical skills can match those of Biden.

Take care,
PK
For a head start, 2006 debate:

http://palintology.com/2006/08/08/decis ... und-table/

I haven't had time to watch much of it yet.
I hadn't seen that. Thanks for the link. My wife is going to kill me if I spend any more of my Labor Day researching the intricacies of recent Alaska state government policy LOL

Man, Murkowski must've been hating life in that campaign. Two of his own appointees coming right after his head He's a blustery, imperious old dinosaur, so at least Biden won't seem totally foreign to her. :)

Edit:

OK, at the risk of divorce I watched the rest. It's interesting but not terribly illuminating vis a vis Palin. It's an excellent educational tool for anyone interested in the relatviely unique landscape of Alaskan budgetary politics :) Palin clearly benefitted from the fact that Murkowski and Murkowski Lite (TM) were at each like lions fighting over a steak.

My favorite part was after they were screaming like juveniles and Palin reprimanded them by saying the voters deserve a higher standard of discourse...and they agreed! LOL

On a related note, I'm seeing some of the NetRoots and other True Believers allege that Palin is on board with Obama's ridiculous Windfall Profits tax. There's an excellent discussion of this over at Beldarblog, but here's the most relevent portion:
What the article you linked to is discussing is a severance tax. State severance taxes charged on production of oil and gas and minerals are common throughout the United States. Also sometimes called "production taxes," they're charged by the state from beneath whose land valuable resources are extracted, and they're designed not to punish the energy companies, but to recompense the state for its loss of a non-replaceable resource — one that must be quantified and taxed upon removal, if it is ever to be taxed at all. Severance taxes are therefore based on production from within the state, not on profits earned by the company extracting that production — even though the production may be measured in, and the tax assessed upon, the market value or gross revenues (as measured in dollars) received for that production, rather than an "in kind" delivery to the state in barrels or cubic feet as such. See, e.g., Tex. Tax Code §§ 201.051 & 202.051 (Texas production taxes on gas and oil respectively).

Indeed, I once represented Conoco in a Houston lawsuit against Mobil over how to allocate the severance tax they jointly owed based on jointly owned oil and gas leases in Idaho. There's actually a fair amount of competing case-law from different states over whether severance taxes are more properly characterized as "property taxes" or "income taxes" — if for some reason (e.g., interpreting a sloppy contract) you have to put them into one of those two categories or the other. But in any event, severance taxes are in no way premised on the notion that energy companies are making unconscionable or excessive profits.

Alaska's previous version of its severance tax had been negotiated behind closed doors by defeated Gov. Frank Murkowski, a few top state legislators (some of whom are now in prison for corruption), and energy lobbyists. One of the campaign planks upon which Gov. Palin ran for office was replacing that tax with one negotiated in the open with full transparency; and the resulting tax was, indeed, slightly more favorable to the State of Alaska. The article you linked tells some of this anti-corruption history on the part of Gov. Palin. But just because the newspaper headline writers and some of the people the article quoted used the word "windfall," don't be fooled into thinking that the tax in question is the same thing Barack Obama and the Democrats are now promoting at a national level.

Rather, what Obama and the Dems are promoting is nothing less than selective government confiscation of the property of a particular industry, on the theory that such industry's profits are "excessive." That's a repugnant rabble-rousing scheme, populism turned into class warfare and carried to its excessive worst. It's completely unjustifiable either morally or economically. Its short-term victims are going to be energy-company shareholders (which include huge numbers of pension plans in which ordinary Americans have investments), but its long-term victims will be all Americans (who will suffer as our own energy companies are put at an increasing competitive disadvantage compared to others in the world, and whose national security interests will be further harmed as we become even more dependent on foreign sources of fossil-fuel energy).
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Post by greggsand »

TheHiddenTrack wrote: But I still can't believe, based upon my initial research and impressions, that you guys are actually comfortable with Palin to take over if something happens to McCain. I like her as a person and everything but as President?
What do you mean? She was the mayor of a town with 7,000 people! Think of the challenges she must have faced!
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Post by XXXIV »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Experience...

What once mattered now doesnt...

What once didnt matter now does...


Good stuff....
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Post by Teal »

What amazes me are those who support a PRESIDENTIAL candidate with no experience are balking at a VICE presidential running mate who actually HAS a little governing experience, calling her inexperienced, and making it into a big deal, while they are going to pull the lever for the most sweepingly inexperienced candidate in memory.

It's priceless and fun to watch...
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Post by Feanor »

McCain's kind of old, though.
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Post by XXXIV »

Feanor wrote:McCain's kind of old, though.
Ya think? :lol:
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Post by Teal »

XXXIV wrote:
Feanor wrote:McCain's kind of old, though.
Ya think? :lol:

Yeah...but his veep is HOT! Can't say that about Biden...yeesh... :lol:
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Post by XXXIV »

Teal wrote:
XXXIV wrote:
Feanor wrote:McCain's kind of old, though.
Ya think? :lol:

Yeah...but his veep is HOT! Can't say that about Biden...yeesh... :lol:
Dont tell Larry Craig that :P
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Post by Feanor »

It's probably impossible for a number of reasons, but if McCain gets elected and then gets his VP pregnant, and then they decide to try and hide it by getting an abortion even though they're both morally opposed to abortion, that would be the greatest scandal ever.
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Post by Teal »

XXXIV wrote:
Teal wrote:
XXXIV wrote: Ya think? :lol:

Yeah...but his veep is HOT! Can't say that about Biden...yeesh... :lol:
Dont tell Larry Craig that :P
True, that:

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Post by pk500 »

That's classic, Teal! :)

Take care,
PK
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Post by RobVarak »

Can we get over the breathless reporting about how shocking the Palin pick is? She was on any number of reported shortlists. She's been pegged as national material for a while. And hell, I wrote this almost two weeks ago:
I would personally love to see McCan take Sarah Palin. She's a great character as well, good positions, good resume...but geography does her absolutely no favors.
If some goofball on a sports videogaming message board can advocate on her behalf in mid-August, how can our august political media be so gobsmacked at the selection? It's almost like they're trying to make the pick seem like a crazy move. They wouldn't do that, would they? ;)
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Post by Brando70 »

RobVarak wrote:My favorite part was after they were screaming like juveniles and Palin reprimanded them by saying the voters deserve a higher standard of discourse...and they agreed! LOL
"You people are a bunch of fickle mush heads!"

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Post by FatPitcher »

RobVarak wrote:Can we get over the breathless reporting about how shocking the Palin pick is? She was on any number of reported shortlists. She's been pegged as national material for a while. And hell, I wrote this almost two weeks ago:
I would personally love to see McCan take Sarah Palin. She's a great character as well, good positions, good resume...but geography does her absolutely no favors.
If some goofball on a sports videogaming message board can advocate on her behalf in mid-August, how can our august political media be so gobsmacked at the selection? It's almost like they're trying to make the pick seem like a crazy move. They wouldn't do that, would they? ;)
Those woman-hating Republicans are obviously betraying their misogynistic core beliefs by putting an unqualified woman on the ticket in a cynical ploy to woo female Democrats, who are too smart, emotionally detached, and rational to participate in identity politics.

Sorry, only Democrats are allowed to break glass ceilings in epic fashion. If you're a black or female Republican running for governorship or national office, your story is unremarkable and confuses us greatly, you traitor.
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Post by RobVarak »

FatPitcher wrote:
RobVarak wrote:Can we get over the breathless reporting about how shocking the Palin pick is? She was on any number of reported shortlists. She's been pegged as national material for a while. And hell, I wrote this almost two weeks ago:
I would personally love to see McCan take Sarah Palin. She's a great character as well, good positions, good resume...but geography does her absolutely no favors.
If some goofball on a sports videogaming message board can advocate on her behalf in mid-August, how can our august political media be so gobsmacked at the selection? It's almost like they're trying to make the pick seem like a crazy move. They wouldn't do that, would they? ;)
Agree in part, but let me clarify. I think it's legitimate to criticize her selection, if one can make a reaonable argument. What's got me irritated is the media's shock and suprise and all this "Sarah Who?" nonsense. She may not have had the highest profile, but her name was out there.
Those woman-hating Republicans are obviously betraying their misogynistic core beliefs by putting an unqualified woman on the ticket in a cynical ploy to woo female Democrats, who are too smart, emotionally detached, and rational to participate in identity politics.

Sorry, only Democrats are allowed to break glass ceilings in epic fashion. If you're a black or female Republican running for governorship or national office, your story is unremarkable and confuses us greatly, you traitor.
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Post by FatPitcher »

RobVarak wrote:Agree in part, but let me clarify. I think it's legitimate to criticize her selection, if one can make a reasonable argument. What's got me irritated is the media's shock and suprise and all this "Sarah Who?" nonsense. She may not have had the highest profile, but her name was out there.
I was just predicting the media narrative from here on out. I know what you mean, and I think a lot of it is feigned surprise ("look what that crazy old coot did now!"). Would not be surprised to see much of that criticism boomerang on Obama, though. Palin at least has a (short) record of success and independence, while Obama is basically just an actor playing a presidential candidate on TV.

What I like most about the Palin pick is that it's a finger in the eye of the Republican establishment.
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Post by Feanor »

Yeah, he acted at being a State Senator for eight years and a U.S. Senator for four years. :roll:

I don't think it's come up in this thread yet, but Plain is currently being investigated by an independent investigator hired by the Alaska Legislatur to determine whether she abused her power when she fired former state Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. The results are due to be released four days before the election, but I don't suppose it will have any impact.

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html
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Post by FatPitcher »

Feanor wrote:Yeah, he acted at being a State Senator for eight years and a U.S. Senator for four years. :roll:

I don't think it's come up in this thread yet, but Plain is currently being investigated by an independent investigator hired by the Alaska Legislature[60] to determine whether she abused her power when she fired former state Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. Monegan The results are due to be released four days before the election.

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html
Acting the part of a state senator is one step further than most people elected to the Illinois Senate go. However, he probably should have gotten a little more training on the voting mechanism, as a highly trained politician probably could have avoided most of Obama's 13 incorrect button presses. (Gives a whole new meaning to the question, "Is this a guy you want with his finger on the button?")

And of course in the Senate Obama has voted hard left, only breaking with party majority to do things like vote against John Roberts' confirmation...at least, that's what he's done when he's not been busy campaigning, which has been his primary focus pretty much since he took office.

Of course, Martin Sheen could probably win 45% of the vote, so maybe he'll win anyway.
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Post by Feanor »

Six times out of more than 4,000 is enough to convince me that Obama is another brain dead Paris Hilton-style celebrity. Not sure where you got 13 from, though

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 9399.story

I don't think he'll win. Not when there are average American voters who watched the DNC and yelled "Now say it in Swahili!" during Obama's speech.
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Post by RobVarak »

Feanor wrote: I don't think he'll win. Not when there are average American voters who watched the DNC and yelled "Now say it in Swahili!" during Obama's speech.
That's a reasonable portrait of the average American voter :roll:
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Post by TheGamer »

Here's an article that claims Palin actually wanted Congressional funding for the so-called Bridge to Nowhere. On the surface it appears she is being less than forthright when she says she didn't want the funding, but I'll let you guys dissect the article for yourselves.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/30/pal ... e-bridges/
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Post by Teal »

I have my doubts about the source...looks like a website with an angle...
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