OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

[Feanor]

That has to be a photoshop...

[pk500]

That has to be a photoshop...

Nyet. Here's another, from the profile angle:



Dude might be the only person in recorded human history who needed a Weed Eater to trim his brows.

Take care,
PK

[TheGamer]

I'm extremely suprised there aren't any nosehairs in the picture.

[Teal]

They've all been rerouted to his eyebrows...

[SPTO]

Don't bash me but I thought Kennedy's speech was good.

Not exactly looking forward to Michelle Obama speaking tonight. I dunno, she seems to have foot in mouth disease IMO.

[MACTEPsporta]

Yeah, you don't see this a lot. Looks like Austin Powers' chest hair. Strangely enough, hair has been a crucial factor in determining Russian rulers for centuries. Ever since Nikolay I, and to the present time, all the leading man alternated between bald and not bald. People were joking that Gorbachev's successor must be with hair, and he was, and Yeltsin's must be bald, and he was. Medvedev keeps the streak alive.

[JRod]

Jack-diggity:

One thing that YouTube video shows is the tremendous pressure and scrutiny that both Obama and McCain are under.

I believe Obama when he said he hasn't gotten much sleep. I bet both guys get five hours per night. Some people -- like you, I know! -- can function perfectly on that or less, but it shatters some people after a while.

All I know is that Obama had a full head of black hair 12 months ago, and now he's starting to show gray at the temples.

The campaign really is a grind, a marathon, mentally and physically. The stakes are so high -- can you imagine if Obama or McCain caught the flu or a bad cold in late October? That would be catastrophic for the campaign, yet these guys' immune systems must be taking a beating from the workload, lack of sleep, stress, pressure, bad food at rubber-chicken dinners, whistle stops, etc.

But hell, you already know that. You've worked on state and national political campaigns in the last three years!

Take care,
PK

Paul,

But I think that's the part of the marathon that is PART of the process. The intangibles are just that.

When you are President you aren't guaranteed to be like Bush and go to bed at 9 PM.

These are all the little tests because it's not going to get any easier in office if you are looking at a nuclear conflict at 4 in the morning after arriving from a 20 hour flight and you have the flu.

The marathon of the campaign is really the one way the media and the public test the men or women. I believe negative ads tests one resolve and ability to respond. The lack of sleep is endurance. The length is the ability to spend months not making any huge mistakes.

Just wanted to add those thoughts on top of yours not really disagreeing with ya.

[Jackdog]

Paul,

But I think that's the part of the marathon that is PART of the process. The intangibles are just that.

When you are President you aren't guaranteed to be like Bush and go to bed at 9 PM.

These are all the little tests because it's not going to get any easier in office if you are looking at a nuclear conflict at 4 in the morning after arriving from a 20 hour flight and you have the flu.

The marathon of the campaign is really the one way the media and the public test the men or women. I believe negative ads tests one resolve and ability to respond. The lack of sleep is endurance. The length is the ability to spend months not making any huge mistakes.

Just wanted to add those thoughts on top of yours not really disagreeing with ya.

I don't know brother. Tonight Obama said he was in St Louis and he was in KC. His daughter had to ask him again where he was at. He must be running on fumes.

His wife's speech was OK. I thought it was more "Hokey" than inspirational. It didn't bring my wife too tears like so many at the convention. Carol and I are very proud black Americans,and seeing someone in our race with a legit chance to become President makes us even more proud of our country. That being said we won't be voting for him based on his race. Matter of fact we won't be voting for him at all. I'll debate that in November.

On a side note I was more moved when Nelson Mandela became President of South Africa in 1999. I don't agree with Mandela's political views at all,but what a comeback for a country that once sent him to serve time on the horrid Robben Island. Who would have thought that country would elect it's first black President before the US?

[SPTO]

On a side note I was more moved when Nelson Mandela became President of South Africa in 1999. I don't agree with Mandela's political views at all,but what a comeback for a country that once sent him to serve time on the horrid Robben Island. Who would have thought that country would elect it's first black President before the US?

Indeed, I also found it very interesting that the President of the ruling apartheid movement realized the mistakes and wrongheaded nature of the Apartheid movement. Sure it took way too long as many countries were opposed to it as far back as the 1960s but at least De Klerk was able to see the foolishness of a policy that was taking his country further into the backwoods of the world community.

Mandela truly is one of the greatest figures in the african movement and it's somewhat shameful in a way that America hasn't even remotely come close to electing a black president but South Africa already has.

In some respects America is still stuck in its racist ways, not outwardly but it's subtle. I do think that some of the problems stem from those in the black community who cry racism at every turn though. So it's all the more remarkable that 40ish years after the Civil Rights movement there's a legit chance for a black man to be president.

[TheGamer]

I was very proud to see Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson on the stage tonight. I think their family is very uplifting.

[Inuyasha]

I was very proud to see Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson on the stage tonight. I think their family is very uplifting.

SOUTH SIDE!

[JRod]

On a side note I was more moved when Nelson Mandela became President of South Africa in 1999. I don't agree with Mandela's political views at all,but what a comeback for a country that once sent him to serve time on the horrid Robben Island. Who would have thought that country would elect it's first black President before the US?

Indeed, I also found it very interesting that the President of the ruling apartheid movement realized the mistakes and wrongheaded nature of the Apartheid movement. Sure it took way too long as many countries were opposed to it as far back as the 1960s but at least De Klerk was able to see the foolishness of a policy that was taking his country further into the backwoods of the world community.

Mandela truly is one of the greatest figures in the african movement and it's somewhat shameful in a way that America hasn't even remotely come close to electing a black president but South Africa already has.

In some respects America is still stuck in its racist ways, not outwardly but it's subtle. I do think that some of the problems stem from those in the black community who cry racism at every turn though. So it's all the more remarkable that 40ish years after the Civil Rights movement there's a legit chance for a black man to be president.

I don't know the numbers but the difference between black and whites is not even representative of the US. To say that it's shameful and then comparing it to S. Africa is ludicrous. If America had the the black/white numbers as S. Africa we probably would have had a black president within a half century of the end of slavery. You could argue that slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights etc. might not have happened or would have ended sooner.

There was no way that S. Africa could hold on to apartheid with that share numbers of black africans.

I would say in a way, it's going to be like that for the hispanic community. The numbers are misleading because I would say the number of hispanics coming from hispanics marriages but born in America is radically less than hispanics claiming that heritage but coming from mixed marriages.

Should Obama win and his Presidency isn't marred with errors I think it will open the floodgates of Congress and other areas of public life to be truly representative of America's make-up. Should Obama lose I think within 3 terms we'll see another candidate (dem or rep) that isn't white or a male but wins the white house.

Though I don't think unless Obama runs the worst final 3 months of any Presidential, Obama will lose.

[SPTO]

I don't know the numbers but the difference between black and whites is not even representative of the US. To say that it's shameful and then comparing it to S. Africa is ludicrous. If America had the the black/white numbers as S. Africa we probably would have had a black president within a half century of the end of slavery. You could argue that slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights etc. might not have happened or would have ended sooner.

True to an extent but remember that America likes to wrap itself up in this enlightened position of greatness when in reality it has almost always had a somewhat questionable civil rights past with not only African Americans but with native peoples as well.

I don't think it's ludicrous to compare it with S. Africa, maybe it is numbers wise but from the moral equivalency standpoint it's something that has to be pointed out. We don't know exactly how reconstruction was going to work out if Lincoln had lived but I strongly believe that Jim Crow wouldn't have been nearly as strong as it became. In fact, in the early reconstruction period there were a few black congressmen mostly in the north. If Lincoln had lived I doubt that he'd let the civil rights of those who fought bravely for the Union to be stripped away as systematically as it did in history.

That being said I do agree with you that no matter what happens in this election cycle we're going to see a lot more people of color running for political office. In fact, it's pretty much a given as i've seen census data that says America's visible minorities will become the majority by 2050 so just on sheer numbers alone it'll shake out that way.

[RobVarak]

True to an extent but remember that America likes to wrap itself up in this enlightened position of greatness when in reality it has almost always had a somewhat questionable civil rights past with not only African Americans but with native peoples as well.

That is absolute bullshit.

It's the very definition of a straw man argument.

In the recorded history of human civilization, no great nation or empire has been more self-critical than the US. Between the active press and the enormous scholarly class there has been more analysis of the nation's shortcomings than any other country. There are more institutions, individuals and media outlets dedicated to criticizing, improving and remedying America's shortcomings than you will find in any other nation in the world. We have entire university programs and scholary movements based on objectively clarifying and teaching US history, warts and all.

American exceptionalism is often perceived as American perfectionism, but even the most starry-eyed preachers of the American Way are more than aware of the Indian genocide, slavery and America's civil rights history. And this is not something limited to universities or fringe medial. There isn't a middle school student in America who doesn't know about all of those issues in great detail.

Your statement also sets forth a false syllogism. Obviously America is not a monolithic actor, so to say that "it" wraps itself up in anything is specious. Nothwistanding that fact, just because America has had terrible inequity and tragedy in its past does not in any way diminish its greatness.

It's funny. We've been looked down upon by "enlightened" Europeans (and Americans who share their views) for decades, yet contemporary events demonstrate that Europe has not confronted its racial and ethnic divides with anything approaching the success of the US. And Canada's record with aboriginal peoples is certainly not one to point at with any pride. We haven't resorted to Soviet-style courts couched in Orwellian nomenclature like "Human Rights Commissions" that exist solely for the purpose of infringing on free expression.

The United States has publicized its own shortcomings, then confronted them legally, culturally and in many cases economically, better than any large nation in history. This is not to say that there aren't still enormous problems with race, social inequality, economic divisions etc. But given our track record, the smart money says that the US is more likely to improve these areas more substanitally and more quickly than any other nation on the planet. Indeed, this is the very process that makes the nation great.

[SPTO]

First of all Mr. Varak I just want to make it known that I'm not one of those that merely look to attack America at every turn so let's not paint with broad strokes. I realize as I look back on my statements that I probably did that a bit too much so I will apologize for it.

That being said let me clarify some things that you pointed out. While the Human Rights Commission in Canada is by no means a perfect organ to sort out issues that are brought up. Indeed there are times when the Commission makes decisions that are driven towards political correctness more then anything else. It's still better then nothing.

As to Canada's horrendous record in regards to Aboriginal peoples you are right that it's quite inexcusable but within the last 20 years the Canadian Government has done a lot to try and remedy the problem with formal apologies and compensation payments. Canada's Indian Affairs office is also a step in the right direction and has been around since the Trudeau Mandate IIRC.

No one nation is better then any other nation in regards to human rights abuses. In fact it's been less then a century since the internment camps in Canada and the US for Japanese living on the continent and we also can't forget the rest of Europe turning a blind eye to the plight of Jewish people who were looking to leave Germany in the '30s.

Anyways this is way off the main topic. I would like to say with all due respect that you raise a lot of salient points in your arguments. I look forward to much more discourse in the future.

[RobVarak]

Anyways this is way off the main topic. I would like to say with all due respect that you raise a lot of salient points in your arguments. I look forward to much more discourse in the future.

I'm sorry, but there is just not room in this thread for that kind of dignity and civility. We'll let you off with a warning this time

[Inuyasha]

this is scary :

http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/assi ... 02827.html

[RobVarak]

Oh, man. This is too good:

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[pk500]

Since when did Joss Stone become an American citizen? What's next: Madonna appearing in Gordon Brown YouTube videos?



Take care,
PK

[Brando70]

McCain's version of that video is Bruce Willis doing "The Return of Bruno II: Electric Boogaloo."

[RobVarak]

McCain's version of that video is Bruce Willis doing "The Return of Bruno II: Electric Boogaloo."

Maybe, but if I were in the Obama campaign I think I would strongly discourage celebrity-laden videos that contribute to the messiah image. Preaching to the choir has never been more literally applicable

Then again I'm funny. I'd probably suggest that at some point his supporters stop branding as a racist everyone who opposes the man...particularly using language like this:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/o ... 08.article

Emil Jones is pond scum, and Obama would be wise to disassociate himself from his ilk. Of course it's Jones and his ilk who got Obama to this point, so that's just not likely to happen. You can take the candidate out of the swamp, but the stink of Chicago politics is hard to remove.

[pk500]

McCain's version of that video is Bruce Willis doing "The Return of Bruno II: Electric Boogaloo."

Maybe, but if I were in the Obama campaign I think I would strongly discourage celebrity-laden videos that contribute to the messiah image. Preaching to the choir has never been more literally applicable

Exactly, especially about 12 hours after Michelle Obama tried to convince Americans that her husband was a regular guy. Yeah, a regular guy who has Forrest Whitaker, Joss Stone, Whoopi Goldberg and other Hollywood/music types proclaiming him as The Chosen One.

The irony of the ad is that celebrity endorsements probably only affect the psyche of the young, a demographic that Obama seemingly already has in his back pocket. God, I hope pap like this doesn't swing the vote of anyone older than 30 ...

Take care,
PK

[Brando70]

I do love that the Republican presidential campaign is using Hillary Clinton as a supportive reference for McCain. The political snake has swallowed its tail.

[matthewk]

I wish entertainers would just shut the f*&k up during elections. I don't care what side they are on. I don't want them trying to tell me who I should vote for.

Music and movies have always been full of political messages, but they are usually opaque enough that you can take your own meaning out of them. Crap that like that video just makes me want to puke.

First Richards tarnishes Seinfled for me with his racist rant. Now I'm going to have the image of Alexander in this video in my head too.

[Slumberland]

Ugh... celebrities feeling good about themselves... those commercials make me want to take a shower... and it takes a lot to get me to shower!!!