Madden 09 Discussion

[JRod]

OS just went atomic over this announcement.

The CPU sliders don't work in NCAA and they are completely removed in Madden.

Me thinks CPU sliders in NCAA were "work as designed".

It is pretty funny...In the end they are the only people who will care though.

EA will sell a billion copies and make a trillion dollars. They sell to the average man not to us.

Personally I dont care as sliders have always seemed a bit fantastic to me.

Edit: I hardly ever venture to OS but this s*** is just too funny and I need the laughs after the Sox game...Im thinking these goofs will go deep into the night.

I think this is more important than that. While sliders might only affect 20% of the Madden gamer base, it shows how the design of the game isn't geared toward its base.

That's a pretty dangerous position for any game company to make. Ultimately it will catch up with EA. This swell of displeasure has been growing since the first next gen release. It's only going to be a matter of time before it turns into a force EA can't look away from.

[Rodster]

wow, shocking. I love the line from EA that the game "adjusts" to your gameplay style (no need for sliders!). One could argue my gameplay style is adjusted to the crappy AI. lol.

Whenever I hear the words adjust or adapt that's code for rubberband AI. Yeah that worked really in Tiger Woods 08. When you suck we suck, when you play good, we play good.

You know i'm skipping this game and waiting for FIFA or NHL 09.

[MizzouRah]

Get rid of all the f***in sliders for all I care. I did tweak just a tad in The Show, but developers have really used them as a crutch in the past.

I still think players like the OS crowd make up a VERY SMALL percentage of those buying.. and I don't buy anything EA is selling when it comes to posting on these forums.

The thing that now scares me with HC is that from those game videos, the running game has been non-exsistant - although one of the developers claims he's had RB's run for 150 yards against him before.

Time will tell...

[Jared]

IF Tiburon had ever gotten gameplay balanced correctly right out of the box, then I could understand how this is overreacting. But the games have always been unbalanced, and it's always taken slider tweaks to create the possibility of the game being enjoyable.

There seems to always be that hope that, even though it often isn't the case, someone can find that magic slider set that creates uber-awesome gameplay. That rarely (if ever) happens with EA football titles. But regardless, they've taken away the possibility of it happening, and that's going to cause lots of anger.

[wco81]

Shrug on the sliders thing, if you play a lot of online.


Safeties react to passes well but not like 08.

Glad they got rid of the cone.

Does seem pretty responsive and they close well but it's still possible to breakaway.

When they intercept, the offensive players pursue well so it looks like you're not going to have ridiculous numbers of defensive TDs.

[Inuyasha]

downloaded the demo. Gameplay seemed a bit tighter, but overall eh.... nothing special for me, but it's just the demo.

Mixed feelings about the IQ thing.

Not gonna plop down 60 for this one. Already paid 60 for one incomplete EA football game.

Now this sort of scares me for the EA 09 titles. Does this mean we should expect an unfinished product for NHL09?

[Inuyasha]

IF Tiburon had ever gotten gameplay balanced correctly right out of the box, then I could understand how this is overreacting. But the games have always been unbalanced, and it's always taken slider tweaks to create the possibility of the game being enjoyable.

There seems to always be that hope that, even though it often isn't the case, someone can find that magic slider set that creates uber-awesome gameplay. That rarely (if ever) happens with EA football titles. But regardless, they've taken away the possibility of it happening, and that's going to cause lots of anger.

Tiburon has never produced a legendary Madden title. Once they took over, they put out this game half assed almost every year. Some years they'ev tried and got close, but now it seems they just gave up since lack of competition.

[jcalvert]

Maybe everyone (myself included) has it all wrong. Maybe EA knows their target audience is the mass market, casual player *and* Madden Nation (or whatever it is called) tournament players. Drop by 30 yards, scramble, throw. I bet it sucks for some that Vick is not going to be in the game.

I think we (folks that care enough to post here) are not the target audience.

[10spro]

Now this sort of scares me for the EA 09 titles. Does this mean we should expect an unfinished product for NHL09?

From what I read so far, it's OK to keep our hopes high, but would it shock you if the final game falls short of what they advertise? Maybe not as much down south because it's a Hockey game, but in Canada it would be criminal.
Keep your fingers crossed.

[davet010]

Maybe everyone (myself included) has it all wrong. Maybe EA knows their target audience is the mass market, casual player *and* Madden Nation (or whatever it is called) tournament players. Drop by 30 yards, scramble, throw. I bet it sucks for some that Vick is not going to be in the game.

I think we (folks that care enough to post here) are not the target audience.

They may not really 'know' that, but their accountants do.

The hardcore who are on Op Sports, or reading either of the Bill's postings, make up probably 5-10% max of the possible ownership. Yeah, they could do proper sliders, or up to date rosters, or correctly modelling the 40 speed of different players, but that is getting into the area of diminishing returns. EA have now nailed their colours to the mast properly by not implementing sliders where you have to be a nuclear scientist to get them to work....they just haven't put any in at all.

So you and I have had a proper heads-up...we now know what the colour of the game is. We can therefore buy it knowing that it is not really a true simulation of the NFL, but that it might be a laugh with our mates. Or we can just not bother at all, and hope maybe that voting with our wallets proves EA's accountants wrong.

[Wilk5280]

Maybe everyone (myself included) has it all wrong. Maybe EA knows their target audience is the mass market, casual player *and* Madden Nation (or whatever it is called) tournament players. Drop by 30 yards, scramble, throw. I bet it sucks for some that Vick is not going to be in the game.

I think we (folks that care enough to post here) are not the target audience.

Ya think??????

Seriously, anyone who does not understand this is delusional.

[skinsfan]

I think it's safe to say I am "un-enthused" about the direction of EA football.

[sportdan30]

The game went gold a month ago. They couldn't have added CPU sliders between that time?

The SENIOR designed just discovered 2 weeks ago there weren't CPU sliders? Something is fishy about that. I'm just very curious what their rationale was for not including CPU sliders is. It's almost as if they had to deliberately remove the sliders from last year's game. Perhaps it has to do with the adaptive IQ...

Does anyone see this game perhaps being delayed and sliders being added? If not, I don't really know how it's going to affect my enjoyment until I play it, but the last thing I want to see are Robo QB's who throw for very high percentages. I'd love to see under throws and over throws, but I highly doubt that is possible.

[ScoopBrady]

Maybe everyone (myself included) has it all wrong. Maybe EA knows their target audience is the mass market, casual player *and* Madden Nation (or whatever it is called) tournament players. Drop by 30 yards, scramble, throw. I bet it sucks for some that Vick is not going to be in the game.

I think we (folks that care enough to post here) are not the target audience.

Ya think??????

Seriously, anyone who does not understand this is delusional.

I've been saying this for years but nobody has seemed to understand it. The hardcore act as if they are the only ones that matter and are naive enough to believe that the game companies see it that way as well.

And before you guys have a stroke about this why don't you actually play the game and make an informed decision about it. For the past 3 years I've felt sliders were a bad thing and much like MizzouRah a crutch for the developers. I'm glad to see EA trying to do something about them.

And for the record, it sounds like the sliders are still there... you just can't access them. The game is supposed to adapt to your playing style and if it works you shouldn't need sliders. The things that sliders can fix are not the same things you think they fix anyways. I'll stand alone on this but I still can't wait for Madden to come out. Collector's edition here I come!

[Slumberland]

The SENIOR designed just discovered 2 weeks ago there weren't CPU sliders? Something is fishy about that.

He was not actually the senior designer for 09, apparently. Just came on board.

[sportdan30]

I guess I'm indifferent. Most of the time, I'll play the game on default to only change the sliders due to some slider guru pronouncing this is the ultimate set. When it boils down to it, do I really notice that much of a difference between the default setting and the guru's slider set?

Not really.

But what does scare me if there is a noticeable advantage from the CPU. Something like high pass completion percentages, high interception rate, etc.

[Wilk5280]

Here's my thing... I haven't forgotten what it was like almost 30 years ago when it comes to playing videogame football.

The atari 2600 with 3-on-3 one a horizontal field where I could control the football after I through it and the 3 men were about the size of 30 yards..give or take.

When Atari's "Real Sports" football came out I was ecstatic! I enjoyed other games for several years which led me to Joe Montana Football and Madden on the Genesis.

I was in disbelief at the fact that I could actually be #78 on Buffalo's D-Line. I mean "Holy Sh!t, that's BRUCE SMITH! THAT'S AWESOME!!!"

I remember those days well and at the time if I would have known where football games were going to go I would bursting with excitement at the thought of what I'd be playing in the future.

So, with all that said I just enjoy that fact that I have the opportunity play games that resemble my favorite sport and are fun to play. Are they perfect? Nah, but I'm not gonna nitpick this s*** frame-by-frame just to find problems and b*tch about them on youtube.

Call me "sheeple" or easily amused. I just think that if you can't have fun playing these games then maybe you shouldn't be playing them.

[webdanzer]

Maybe everyone (myself included) has it all wrong. Maybe EA knows their target audience is the mass market, casual player *and* Madden Nation (or whatever it is called) tournament players. Drop by 30 yards, scramble, throw. I bet it sucks for some that Vick is not going to be in the game.

I think we (folks that care enough to post here) are not the target audience.

Ya think??????

Seriously, anyone who does not understand this is delusional.

I've been saying this for years but nobody has seemed to understand it. The hardcore act as if they are the only ones that matter and are naive enough to believe that the game companies see it that way as well.

So what is the conclusion to this line of thinking? That the hardcore should not be allowed to post their thoughts or criticisms of a game because they are not the target audience?!?

I also very much disagree with Scoop's opinion that the hardcore think that they are the only ones that matter. I'm not sure where this comes from, can you elaborate? I see the hardcore posting about hardcore concerns, but I don't usually see a holier than thou complex anywhere. Hell, a lot of the more critical guys that used to post here aren't around much anymore largely to a huge backlash on this site about their postings, and that's more proof to me that the NON hardcore are far more driven by the apparent righteousness of their stance.

What I usually do see is folks that don't care to go to the hardcore level of analysis getting their panties all in a wad when they read a hardcore post somewhere. Dudes, just have fun with your game! If you don't care about that level of analysis, then really, simply don't care about it!

[Brando70]

The SENIOR designed just discovered 2 weeks ago there weren't CPU sliders? Something is fishy about that.

He was not actually the senior designer for 09, apparently. Just came on board.

Yes, he said he only came on the team in January, and wasn't really involved in the slider area. We make a big deal out of sliders but, in terms of all the stuff that goes in the game, it's a small part. It's not that surprising he didn't know -- from the sound of it, he assumed they were there.

The decision to do this raises a huge red flag for me, because they had to know it would piss off the hardcore gamers, but I'm not going to prejudge the game for this. I don't trust sliders myself, mostly because they never work as logically as they should (especially in Madden). I have tweaked them in the last three Maddens and they did jack squat. I have played MLB 08 on close to default settings and been very happy. The bottom line is that they are nice to have, but 90% of my enjoyment depends on a game playing well straight out of the box.

Still, the meltdown is amusing.

[GameSeven]

For the past 3 years I've felt sliders were a bad thing and much like MizzouRah a crutch for the developers.

I agree and I think Mizz should be removed from next year's Madden.

[RobVarak]

I don't see how a game that hasn't been fun in so long that I literally can't remember the last one that I enjoyed is geared toward either hardcore or casual gamers. It seems geared toward people who really want to play football and have no other real choice, or people who are too dumb to notice that it doesn't really resemble the actual game

[JRod]

I don't have number but I would venture the Madden Nation gamers are more of a market than the OS gamers. And they are very hardcore.

Here's where the hardcore v casual is important.

Who's buying the game in the first week. First week sales are used as models for total game sales. The truly casual gamers don't buy the game on day 1. The hardcore could impact opening day sales more than casual gamers. If investors saw EA not hit it 1-week, 2-week, sales mark you would see some heads roll.

I think EA's problem is who has their ear. I wonder how much madden nation has infected Tiburon. The NFL doesn't care about quality as long as they remove all the negative aspects of NFL football from the game.

And here's what worrisome or hilarious, the liaison to the OS community was not even involved in the game, or wasn't that much. So was he just talking out of his ass for the last few months. Sounds like EA spun the OS community, like it usually does.


Here's my question when did giving the user more OPTIONS a bad thing. If you take the philosophy of giving the user every posible chance of creating an experience tailored to his/her preference -- how can that be a bad thing?

[JRod]

or people who are too dumb to notice that it doesn't really resemble the actual game

Rob called all you that buy Madden dumb.

[Jackdog]

Here's my thing... I haven't forgotten what it was like almost 30 years ago when it comes to playing videogame football.

The atari 2600 with 3-on-3 one a horizontal field where I could control the football after I through it and the 3 men were about the size of 30 yards..give or take.

When Atari's "Real Sports" football came out I was ecstatic! I enjoyed other games for several years which led me to Joe Montana Football and Madden on the Genesis.

I was in disbelief at the fact that I could actually be #78 on Buffalo's D-Line. I mean "Holy Sh!t, that's BRUCE SMITH! THAT'S AWESOME!!!"

I remember those days well and at the time if I would have known where football games were going to go I would bursting with excitement at the thought of what I'd be playing in the future.

So, with all that said I just enjoy that fact that I have the opportunity play games that resemble my favorite sport and are fun to play. Are they perfect? Nah, but I'm not gonna nitpick this s*** frame-by-frame just to find problems and b*tch about them on youtube.

Call me "sheeple" or easily amused. I just think that if you can't have fun playing these games then maybe you shouldn't be playing them.

Fun??? WTF does that have to do with sports gaming these days?

I remember those days as well. We used to have Madden tournaments in the barracks back in 93. That Sega Genesis held up for countless games. We would have a 3rd guy in charge of overturning of certain calls. That was a great feature for those days. Thanks for stirring up some great memories.

[ScoopBrady]

Ya think??????

Seriously, anyone who does not understand this is delusional.

I've been saying this for years but nobody has seemed to understand it. The hardcore act as if they are the only ones that matter and are naive enough to believe that the game companies see it that way as well.

So what is the conclusion to this line of thinking? That the hardcore should not be allowed to post their thoughts or criticisms of a game because they are not the target audience?!?

I also very much disagree with Scoop's opinion that the hardcore think that they are the only ones that matter. I'm not sure where this comes from, can you elaborate? I see the hardcore posting about hardcore concerns, but I don't usually see a holier than thou complex anywhere. Hell, a lot of the more critical guys that used to post here aren't around much anymore largely to a huge backlash on this site about their postings, and that's more proof to me that the NON hardcore are far more driven by the apparent righteousness of their stance.

What I usually do see is folks that don't care to go to the hardcore level of analysis getting their panties all in a wad when they read a hardcore post somewhere. Dudes, just have fun with your game! If you don't care about that level of analysis, then really, simply don't care about it!

Talk about putting words in my mouth Web. I didn't say that people had no right to express their opinions. I didn't even imply it. All I'm trying to say is the fact that the hardcore sports gamer is not EA's target audience because it is such a small portion of the sales of the game. All of the changes they make regarding the game are geared towards the other demographic, not the hardcore demographic. That's all I am saying.

Also, are you trying to tell me to shut up by saying that I can't tell someone else to shut up? That sure is what it sounds like Web. For the record I'm not asking anyone to shut up simply to reserve judgment until they've actually played the game. Your post is very accusatory Web. It sounds like you're mad at me or are looking at me being the reason that the more critical guys are no longer around. If that's the case I'll gladly step aside if that's the attitude around here. This is ridiculous, the game's not even out yet.