Racing Sim Thread, Part II

stu · Post by **stu** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:28 pm

Hi, I discovered this site through a google search looking for DFP settings.

I see most of you have the same feelings as me regarding the need for plug and play FFB settings, hence why I've steered clear of realfeel, no matter how good it is.

Right now I've just used pk500's DFP settings, using Leo's plugin and the other INI tweaks.

I'm off to try it now.

PS, I would be interested to hear of any further tweaks, if needed.

I'm currently using the Epsilon mod.

Thanks

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:51 pm

Stu:

Welcome to DSP. Glad to have another sim racer around! Please join us during our "Poker Night" races, in which we pick a couple of mods and tracks and race. No points, no league, no setups unless shared with everyone -- just a good time.

Someone -- usually me -- calls Poker Nights on an impromptu basis, so keep your eye on this forum.

Glad you mentioned the topic of force feedback in rFactor. I gave RealFeel a try over the winter but didn't adopt it for two reasons. One, it made my Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel feel too slack, and two, it required tweaking.

So I gravitated to Leo's FFB plug-in and enjoyed it because I thought it was quite plug-and-play. Just drop it in your plug-ins folder and drive.

But over the past few months, I've become somewhat disenchanted with Leo's and wanted to try RealFeel again. Leo's was bugging me for a few reasons.

One, the wheel just felt too damn heavy to me with the settings I posted previously in this thread. It felt like I was fighting the wheel too much and scrubbing too much speed.

Two, I run my FFB settings in game at Low because ISI programmed a lot of canned crap into its default FFB, and the only way you can eliminate that and feel more true FFB is to run it at Low settings. But I didn't feel enough bumps and other imperfections when running Low FFB with Leo's. The only forces I was feeling were tire grip, since Leo's is designed only around the Pacejka curve of self-aligning torque, and I longed to feel suspension forces, too.

Three, Leo's isn't nearly as plug-and-play as most think. It is set up by default to work with the awesome 2007 BMW Sauber F1 car that ISI created. Leo Bodnar, the mod creator, built the mod around the suspension and tire parameters of that mod and ONLY that mod.

So if you use Leo's with any other mod, you're getting FFB designed for a modern F1 car. It just seemed unrealistic to me to be driving a 1955 F1 car or a Renault Megane and getting tire feedback designed for the suspension and tire characteristics of a 2007 F1 car.

You can check the suspension parameters of every mod by opening the .pm file with Notepad and finding four integers that can be changed from mod to mod. But there's really no way to look up the tire values for a mod, at least that I know, so even if you tweak Leo's to match the suspension of the car you're driving, the tire values in the FFB will be set up for a grooved Michelin F1 tire. Again, not very accurate if you're driving an F3 car that uses Avon slicks or a 1955 F1 car that uses bias-ply treaded tires.

Plus it's even more of a pain in the ass to change the suspension parameters from mod to mod with Leo's than it is to adjust RealFeel parameters because there's nothing in the .ini file of Leo's mod that saves your settings for each mod. So you need to enter the .ini file for Leo's mod and change the parameters every time you switch mods if you want accurate force feedback, and again, it's only based on self-aligning torque.

So Saturday night, I said, "F*ck it, I'm going to take as much time as I need to really give RealFeel a go." Five hours later, I'm sticking with RealFeel without question.

I made three critical mistakes when trying RealFeel for the first time. One, I didn't set the Steering Damper figure by default for each mod to 11500.000000 in the RealFeelPlugIn.ini file that RealFeel automatically installs in your main rFactor directory. I left it at the default 2500.000000. If you have a quality wheel like a G25 or a DFP, you MUST use 11500.000000, which is equivalent to no damping. A good wheel can kill excessive oscillations at the wheel without damping. And when you use a quality wheel with damping, it makes the wheel feel slack and light because of the excessive, unnecessary damping.

So the wheel had the proper amount of "weight" with the Steering Damper figure set to 11500.0000000. Not as heavy as with Leo's, but it felt like I was driving a car, not a Razor kid's scooter.

The second mistake was that I didn't set up my wheel in Windows Game Controllers as the RealFeel mod creators suggested. Mine was damn close, but the extra tweak increased the realism.

The final mistake I made was to stick with the Force Feedback tweaks I posted earlier in this thread to use with Leo's. Those tweaks might work fine with Leo's, but the guys who designed RealFeel developed specific FFB settings to use with RealFeel. So I copied my existing controller.ini file and pasted in the RealFeel FFB section into my working controller.ini file.

Bingo. Everything felt great. Smooth, progressive, no dead zone, fantastic, subtle feel of suspension forces reacting to bumps, a nice weight to the wheel. Just what I sought.

And most importantly, I was faster. Much faster, in some cases, within just three or four laps.

I always test FFB plug-ins and settings with the Megane Trophy cars at the Toban Runoffs track. I love those cars and that track and have a ton of seat time in both. I never run any aids other than auto clutch -- I DESPISE all aids; that's not racing -- and I never have broken 1:01 for a lap around Toban Runoffs in a Megane with Leo's FFB.

Well, last night I turned a 59.8 within five laps. I also was a second quicker in an IndyCar at Osterreichring with RealFeel within five laps -- 1:26.2 -- than I was in the same car and track earlier this week with Leo's.

The stopwatch doesn't lie; I'm faster and more comfortable with RealFeel. Very happy.

Finally, it's time to dispel the myth that RealFeel requires more tweaking than Leo's. It doesn't. Once you find a comfortable setting for each mod, it's a case of set it and forget it since the RealFeelPlugIn.ini file remembers all of your settings. And the Hotkeys introduced into the latest version of RealFeel make it really easy to tweak.

The problem with RealFeel is that most people try to overtweak settings. I found a great interview with the creators of RealFeel in the tremendous AutoSimSport online magazine earlier this year, and there was a sidebar with the story called "RealFeel for Dummies" -- a perfect description for me! -- in which one of the creators said there are really only two parameters that need to be adjusted.

One, if the wheel pulls to both sides in corners and doesn't try to center itself through self-aligning torque, then you simply need to reverse the MaxForceAtSteeringRack by hitting RightCtrl-Numpad8 HotKey while on track. You definitely need to do that with IndyCars, for example.

Then it's just a matter of adjusting the MaxForceAtSteeringRack to your liking. That can be done on-track with the HotKeys. Most mods at rFactorCentral have RealFeel settings available for review, and I just look for guys using a DFP and 11500.000000 Steering Damper settings and work from there. It usually takes me no more than 10 minutes to find a sweet spot, and it's done -- forever. I'm more than happy to share my settings so far with anyone who wants them, along with any other tips or links.

This might be the most long-winded post in my many years at DSP, so extra-long wind from me must feel like hurricane-force gusts.

Sorry for such a long post, but I'm really pleased with the outcome from my testing and hope some of you fellow DSP rFactor cats can benefit from it.

See you on the track soon!

Take care,
PK

stu · Post by **stu** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:11 pm

Well, I tried your Leo settings and they felt pretty good to me, but I'll take your advice and try Realfeel.

I'm limiting myself to a handful of mods, so it shouldn't be too much hasle to set things up.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:26 pm

Good luck, Stu. Run what feels best to you and, most importantly, what makes you faster and more consistent!

I'm happy to share my RealFeel settings for particular mods so far, if you want them. If you decide to stick with Leo's, let me know here or through private message what mods you run. Chances are I have the four settings you need to adjust them for Leo's, and I'll be happy to send them to you.

P.S.: You must be a glutton for punishment to read through my malarkey above.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:21 pm

pk500 wrote:But over the past few months, I've become somewhat disenchanted with Leo's and wanted to try RealFeel again. Leo's was bugging me for a few reasons.

One, the wheel just felt too damn heavy to me with the settings I posted previously in this thread. It felt like I was fighting the wheel too much and scrubbing too much speed.

That's interesting. I still use those settings, as I said a few posts ago, and I don't feel like I'm fighting the wheel. I still feel, as I did when you first posted them, that the wheel is working with me in a manner that's predictable and easy to work with, and I'm sure I'm not scrubbing off too much speed.

I've never changed a thing about the Leo's settings, because I'm happy enough with how they are now that I don't need to change them from mod to mod. However, without playing the game to check (I'm going to in a minute, because you've got me worried) I think your Megane time at Toban is in the kind of area I'd normally be lapping in, so there's got to be something to this RealFeel business.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:27 pm

GB_Simo wrote:
pk500 wrote:But over the past few months, I've become somewhat disenchanted with Leo's and wanted to try RealFeel again. Leo's was bugging me for a few reasons.

One, the wheel just felt too damn heavy to me with the settings I posted previously in this thread. It felt like I was fighting the wheel too much and scrubbing too much speed.
That's interesting. I still use those settings, as I said a few posts ago, and I don't feel like I'm fighting the wheel. I still feel, as I did when you first posted them, that the wheel is working with me in a manner that's predictable and easy to work with, and I'm sure I'm not scrubbing off too much speed.

I've never changed a thing about the Leo's settings, because I'm happy enough with how they are now that I don't need to change them from mod to mod. However, without playing the game to check (I'm going to in a minute, because you've got me worried) I think your Megane time at Toban is in the kind of area I'd normally be lapping in, so there's got to be something to this RealFeel business.

Then stay how you are then and our races will be races instead of a run for second.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:37 pm

Ha, I was waiting for that...

To be honest, mate, I wouldn't expect any FFB change to find me masses of time, because I'm not sure I've got masses of time left to find. I'm more interested in seeing if it feels better to me than Leo's does.

stu · Post by **stu** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:49 pm

Hi, I've just spent 2 hours setting up Realfeel using your informative post (thanks for the Steering Damper figure set to 11500.00000 info) and the Realfeel readme.

It is a bit of a hassle to make sure the basics are set-up correctly, but as you stated, and I was pleasantly suprised, the INI is automatically updated with each new mod, so once you've set the 'General' settings, you only need to make three quick and easy adjustments for each mod. Most new mods give recomended settings, i.e the Epsilon Euskadi I'm currently driving.

My biggest hassle was making the INI show up with Vista 64 (you have to turn the 'UAC' off).

Anyhow, I tried the Epsilon Euskaki on VLM's Mid Ohio and it's fantastic.

Next I'll set-up V8 Supercars.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:44 pm

Stu:

Cool. Glad you like it.

Sorry I forgot to mention that I'm running XP Professional. Good to know about the Vista workarounds for those of us who have to deal with Gates' OS scourge.

So, you like the Epsilon Euskadi mod? I tried it over the weekend since I had Le Mans fever, and I thought it was overrated.

With the default setup, the Euskadis feel so odd. There's no "weight" to them under braking or in corners, yet the back end will step out at anything but the slightest feathering of the throttle on corner exit.

The mod creators said traction control is a must to run with these cars, and I believe them. But I hate running any driver aids, so I'm not keen on mods designed around them.

This also is one of those mods where the modder group insists you must their steering wheel and controller.ini settings to get the most out of it. That really chaps my ass, as I have tweaked my wheel and controller.ini settings for hours to get them into my sweet spot, and I'll be damned if I change them.

I think the Porsche Fabcar prototype mod is superior to the Euskadis. The cars have better feel and are fun to drive on the default setup. They also used physics data from the Fabcar designers just like the Euskadi modders did with that team.

Yes, the Fabcars are those hideously ugly Grand-Am prototypes instead of a proper Le Mans prototype, but that mod is a hell of a lot more enjoyable to me than the Euskadis.

Your mileage may vary. Hope you can join us for our next DSP Poker Night, hopefully Tuesday night! Look on the forum tomorrow.

Have any buddies who are sim racers who enjoy a low-key, fun yet competitive night of racing? Bring them along, man!

P.S.: VLN Mid-Ohio is b*tchin', isn't it? I popped a major rod driving around that track. It's pretty much a given that we'll race there this week!

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:55 pm

Mid-Ohio is simply one of the top ten rFactor tracks. I spent about an hour doing Hotlaps using the 1988 F1 mod.

mixdj1 · Post by **mixdj1** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:59 pm

Rodster wrote:Mid-Ohio is simply one of the top ten rFactor tracks.

Indeed! The track is simply awesome! Let's run it tomorrow night.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:50 pm

Rodster wrote:Mid-Ohio is simply one of the top ten rFactor tracks. I spent about an hour doing Hotlaps using the 1988 F1 mod.

Then run it with us online, you candy-ass!

Take care,
PK

stu · Post by **stu** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:59 pm

So, you like the Epsilon Euskadi mod? I tried it over the weekend since I had Le Mans fever, and I thought it was overrated.

With the default setup, the Euskadis feel so odd. There's no "weight" to them under braking or in corners, yet the back end will step out at anything but the slightest feathering of the throttle on corner exit.

The mod creators said traction control is a must to run with these cars, and I believe them. But I hate running any driver aids, so I'm not keen on mods designed around them.

This also is one of those mods where the modder group insists you must their steering wheel and controller.ini settings to get the most out of it. That really chaps my ass, as I have tweaked my wheel and controller.ini settings for hours to get them into my sweet spot, and I'll be damned if I change them.

I think the Porsche Fabcar prototype mod is superior to the Euskadis. The cars have better feel and are fun to drive on the default setup. They also used physics data from the Fabcar designers just like the Euskadi modders did with that team.

Yes, the Fabcars are those hideously ugly Grand-Am prototypes instead of a proper Le Mans prototype, but that mod is a hell of a lot more enjoyable to me than the Euskadis.

I follow Le Mans racing very closely, and after setting up my car/DFP settings, I must say it feels pretty much spot on.

On rfcentral there are a few decent set-ups from 'toonaces' (or something similar) that are worth working with, he's also adding a few more.

TC is a must, the real cars run it, but rather than thinking of it as a driving aid, you have to use it to drive quicker and maximise it's 'performance'.

It's one of those cars you have to build up your speed and understand where to push, and where to hold back. The only problem is it's a little slower than the real car would be.

PS, I don't use their FF settings, just the realfeel settings.

Currently I'm waiting for Prototype C, LMS (Endurance Series) and a couple of touring car mods, Touring Car Legends and a European Touring Car mod.

I'm off now to see if there are any realfeel settings for the Brabham BMW Turbo mod, which I personally believe is one of the most underated mods out there.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:09 pm

Stu:

Thanks for your advice. I'll give the Euskadi another go.

I see you're not using the creators' FFB settings. But are you buying the RealFeel power steering upgrade in the Upgrades section of the vehicle menu for the Euskadi? Do you know if that screws with your RealFeel settings for all mods or just that mod? I don't want to pooch my global RealFeel settings just for the benefit of one mod.

P.S.: You and Gurantsu from this forum should get to know each other. Grant is a big-time, knowledgable endurance racing fan, too. He races with us in rFactor, so hopefully you cats can meet on track!

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:58 pm

Don't be buttering me up after calling my beloved Daytona Prototypes ugly!

stu · Post by **stu** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:02 pm

pk500 wrote:Stu:

Thanks for your advice. I'll give the Euskadi another go.

I see you're not using the creators' FFB settings. But are you buying the RealFeel power steering upgrade in the Upgrades section of the vehicle menu for the Euskadi? Do you know if that screws with your RealFeel settings for all mods or just that mod? I don't want to pooch my global RealFeel settings just for the benefit of one mod.

Take care,
PK

The RealFeel upgrade only relates to the Epsilon, it's just like buying any other upgrade, whether that be a FFB setting or another engine, skin, etc. If your using Realfeel, that's the default option you should use (PS, don't forget to select it if you buy another Epsilon car/skin)

Enduracers recomended Realfeel settings with the Logitech Wingman software are the same as the default Realfeel settings, other than the 'Overall Effects Strength', which is down to personal preference.

I use the default 107% 'Overall Effects Strength'.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:16 pm

Thanks, Stu.

My settings are almost identical, except I'm vacillating between 100 and 105 percent FFB level. I'm trying to settle on one level, but I'm a tinkerer by nature.

I also use 360 degrees of rotation with my DFP, and I'm never changing that, regardless of what any mod maker suggests!

P.S.: Racing with us tonight? Hope so.

Take care,
PK

stu · Post by **stu** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:36 pm

I have very little time to race, I mostly hotlap, Friday and Sunday will probably be the best times to race online.

I need a little help with the Realfeel settings:-

In General Realfeel settings I had SteerForceInputMax=-11500.000000, as it was pulling side to side.

I've just read the negative SteerForceInputMax setting should only be set in the actual controller INI, not the general Realfeel settings.

Is this correct?

I also use 360 degrees of rotation with my DFP, and I'm never changing that, regardless of what any mod maker suggests!

Once RealFeel and the Logitech Wingman Profiler is setup correctly, you only need to change the steering wheel ratio when you change mods. The other Logitech Wingman Profiler settings are identical for each Realfeel mod. For example the mod makers recommend 276 degrees of rotation for the Epsilon and 720 degrees of rotation for the Caterhams.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:12 pm

stu wrote:I need a little help with the Realfeel settings:-

In General Realfeel settings I had SteerForceInputMax=-11500.000000, as it was pulling side to side.

I've just read the negative SteerForceInputMax setting should only be set in the actual controller INI, not the general Realfeel settings.

Is this correct?

No. It changes within the RealFeel settings, per mod. If it's pulling side to side with a negative value, change it to positive. And vice-versa.

Are you using the Hotkeys? You don't even need to enter the .ini file to make all of these changes if you use the Hotkeys. They do it automatically and incrementally, and all changes are saved automatically. It's MUCH easier.

stu wrote:Once RealFeel and the Logitech Wingman Profiler is setup correctly, you only need to change the steering wheel ratio when you change mods. The other Logitech Wingman Profiler settings are identical for each Realfeel mod. For example the mod makers recommend 276 degrees of rotation for the Epsilon and 720 degrees of rotation for the Caterhams.

I don't use the Profiler because rFactor is the only PC driving game I play regularly, so I don't need separate profiles. I'm keeping my wheel at 360 degrees in the Windows Game Controllers profile for my DFP, regardless of mod. I'm comfortable with that amount of rotation, and don't want to adjust from mod to mod.

Hope to see you on track some weekend!

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:17 pm

Stu:

Upon further review of your latest post and my response, I'm thinking you might have the SteeringDamper and MaxForceAtSteeringRack figures confused.

SteeringDamper always is positive for every mod, 11500.000000 for your DFP. Set your General settings to this figure in the RealFeelPlugin.ini file.

There's no mod of which I know that would have a MaxForceAtSteeringRack of 11500. That's obscenely high. 1500 is the default. MaxForceAtSteeringRack can be set at a negative or a positive value; it's positive 1500 by default. If the car is pulling side to side, then you need to reverse those forces to negative and tweak from there.

Again, the HotKeys are your friend. They make tweaking so easy. You never need to open your RealFeelPlugin.ini file, and all changes are saved automatically. Here's a quick primer on the HotKeys:

Hold Right Control and...
Numpad 7, 8, 9 - MaxForceAtSteeringRack decrease 100N, Reverse, increase 100N
Numpad 4, 5, 6 - SteeringDamper decrease (100 steps), Reset to Max (no damping), increase (100 steps)
Numpad 1, 2, 3 - RealFeelMix -10%, Toggle RealFeel On/Off, RealFeelMix +10%
Hold Left Control and...
Numpad 7, 8, 9 - MaxForceAtSteeringRack decrease 1000N, Reset Min/Max, increase 1000N
Numpad 4, 5, 6 - SteeringDamper decrease (10 steps), Reset to Min (max damping = no FFB), increase (10 steps)

These HotKeys only work when in RealTime mode, i.e. out on track.

The only HotKeys I ever need to use are those that adjust the MaxForceAtSteeringRack since I use 11500.000000 as my default SteeringDamper setting for all mods with my DFP. Usually the only tweaks I make are steps of 100 and reversal of steering forces, so I use RightCtrl-Numpad 7,8,9 in about 95 percent of my tweaking. It's simple. The droid voice will tell you what your new setting is or if you've reversed forces.

Hope this helps!

Take care,
PK

stu · Post by **stu** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:08 pm

I've figured it out.

In the RealFeel settings I had SteerForceInputMax=11500.000000

My controller ini for this setting however had a negative value.

I wrongly changed the RealFeel General setting to a negative value SteerForceInputMax=-11500.000000.

I basically misread this Readme thinking it related to the General Realfeel Settings and not the controlller INI:-

SteerForceInputMax
------------------
This value corresponds to the Controller.ini file setting:
FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).

My settings are as follows, plus the controller INI change to SteerForceInputMax=11500.000000:-

[General]
RealFeelIsOn=True
ConsoleEnabled=False
ConsoleRepeatDelay=0.100000
SpeechEnabled=True
KeyRepeatDelay=0.100000
SteerForceInputMax=11500.000000
MinSpeed=10.000000
LogEnabled=False
DefaultMaxForceAtSteeringRack=1500.000000
DefaultSteeringDamper=11500.000000
DefaultSmoothingLevel=0
[EE_LMP1 2008]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=4000.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:19 pm

That looks right, man!

I use the default smoothing level, which I believe is 4. Maybe I'll try messing with that.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:34 pm

stu wrote:I've figured it out.

In the RealFeel settings I had SteerForceInputMax=11500.000000

My controller ini for this setting however had a negative value.

I wrongly changed the RealFeel General setting to a negative value SteerForceInputMax=-11500.000000.

I basically misread this Readme thinking it related to the General Realfeel Settings and not the controlller INI:-

SteerForceInputMax
------------------
This value corresponds to the Controller.ini file setting:
FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
My settings are as follows, plus the controller INI change to SteerForceInputMax=11500.000000:-

[General]
RealFeelIsOn=True
ConsoleEnabled=False
ConsoleRepeatDelay=0.100000
SpeechEnabled=True
KeyRepeatDelay=0.100000
SteerForceInputMax=11500.000000
MinSpeed=10.000000
LogEnabled=False
DefaultMaxForceAtSteeringRack=1500.000000
DefaultSteeringDamper=11500.000000
DefaultSmoothingLevel=0
[EE_LMP1 2008]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=4000.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

That's really odd. The default SteerForceInputMax is 11500, but the FFB section of the controller.ini that comes with RealFeel, which you're supposed to paste into your controller.ini, has a SteerForceInputMax of -11500. But the SteerForceInputMax values in both your RealFeel.ini and controller.ini are supposed to match.

If that's the case, then why did the mod creators change it to -11500 in their .ini file?

Now I'm confused!

I've asked a question about this to the mod creator in this thread at RSC:

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=291072&page=70

Take care,
PK

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:59 am

Ive never paid any attention to + or - realy, if it pulls the wrong way just switch the forcefeedback in the ff settings to the opposite way.
Middle is 0 all the way left is 100% negative all the way right is 100% positive.

Doesnt matter i dont think as all the mods are different anyway so your constantly switching from positive to negative.

The makers real feel ini is negative as he used a logitech momo i believe and logitech wheels are one of the wheels that requires negative force feed back.

Thats been my experience with it which is why i thought it was a pain, then you throw in the logitech users needing negative force and it just is too much sometimes.
I doubt if you changed your controller.ini to negative it would change anything other than the way you need to have your settings in the game. I believe you would still be tweaking it one way or the other for different mods.

I could be wrong

i hope i am as it sure would make life easier.

I just checked my ini files and both are 11500.00000 and i have a DFP and it feels good to me.

stu · Post by **stu** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:21 am

I do not use the FFB.ini from the mod. I use the one I already had and it works fine. All that is is a baseline to get you started, if it feels good right now for you then there is no need to change. Also, try adding LeoFFB with Reelfeel and do a 60% mix & you will really love it then.

Cheers,

mj

The 'correct' setup for a Logitech wheel is steer force input max negative in Controller.ini, the same value but positive in RealFeelPlugin.ini and FFB at -100%.

However, as you've noticed, setting steer force input max to positive in Controller.ini and then using a positive FFB strength effectively results in the same output.

SteerForceInputMax in the RealFeel ini should never be negative as the RealFeel algorithms are designed to work with a positive number.