NBA Talk

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:49 pm

Why would he lie now? He's already busted and nothing is going to save his skin. If I am a ref, and I get to hang out with owners, receive money payments from players, etc.. etc.. why would I want to rock the boat. If everyone is happy and making money, hell, I'll go along with it. And he did mention in the espn article that the refs that didn't go along with it, they were secretly reprimanded.

I'm no insider, but I've even heard stories from people I know in the paper business how this ref was having problems and some players helped the ref out monetarily under the table. Sure, I have no proof, it maybe all heresy, but when you add it all up, it sure looks like this guy maybe on to something.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:54 pm

The problem I have with this being directed by the NBA. The small benefit they would get from having a more popular matchup would be completely demolished if they were caught fixing games. The risks far outweigh the costs. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but it would be a huge risk.

Who knows why Donaghy is mentioning this. Spite? Revenge? Pissed at the NBA because they tried to get a million bucks out of him? Because he's a scumbag gamefixer taking advantage of conspiracy theories to make it look like he was following orders? Who knows. But it takes a lot more than this and some lopsided officiating to convince me this was fixed. I guess the fix was in with the Patriots in 2004 when they held the Colts receivers practically every play.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:03 am

He would lie now because he hasn't been sentenced yet. The feds says "give us something" & he does. Wisely, he chose a series (lakes v kings) that most people thought was a screw-job to begin with. Brilliant.

Kinda like saying to a mobster, "tell us something" & he says "we wacked hoffa". Can't prove it, but people want to believe it.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:45 am

I guess I just don't see how him saying that Jordan got all the calls because the league directed it would spare him any jail time. I sound like a bitter Knick fan but is there any other kind nowadays?

Everyone pretty much agrees that there are superstar rules in the NBA, right? Is that because officials are blinded by the brilliance of their play or is it part of a league directive? I choose to believe the latter.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:27 am

spooky157 wrote:I guess I just don't see how him saying that Jordan got all the calls because the league directed it would spare him any jail time. I sound like a bitter Knick fan but is there any other kind nowadays? Everyone pretty much agrees that there are superstar rules in the NBA, right? Is that because officials are blinded by the brilliance of their play or is it part of a league directive? I choose to believe the latter.

Yes, but that's a completely different issue. There are superstar rules in every league. Better players definitely get the calls.

What I don't believe is that there was a concerted effort to fix games by the NBA.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:20 am

Favoring superstars alone affects the outcome of games. From that point, is it that much of a reach that they'd go all the way and make sure of certain results?

Not only do you have superstar rules, you have difficult officiating against rookies, differences in the calls a given team gets at home vs. the road.

When you see horribly officiated games -- which continue to happen -- is it that the officiating is crooked or incompetent? Neither choice reflects well on the officials or the league.

Why would anyone give the NBA the benefit of the doubt over say Serie A? Why does Stern strike anyone as so pristine?

It doesn't have to be some earth-shaking conspiracy either. Common sense that NBA's appeal is marginal compared to NFL or MLB. NBA can't take good ratings on TV for granted. Certainly this isn't lost on the refs, whose livelihood depends on NBA continuing to get good TV contracts.

When the Donaghy scandal broke out before this season, Stern promised transparency. So we've had cases where the NBA admitted bad calls, such as a Lakers-Warriors game in March where a charge was called against a Warrior player when Derek Fisher was clearly pulling him down. That was a 1-basket game. Well the NBA admitted Bob Delaney blew the call.

But were there any consequences? Is "our bad" enough to dispel doubts in minds of some fans? That one game also helped the Lakers get the number 1 seed in the West, BTW.

Delaney continues to ref playoff games and NBA has never opened up about how it evaluates refs or how it assigns refs. For instance, that one ref who threw out Duncan for no reason continues to officiate games involving the Spurs, even though he had to be suspended a few games.

The uncomfortable truth is that there has been suspect officiating for years, long before that 2002 series.

Some of Donaghy's other allegations which are little-discussed include the fact that some refs have cozy relationships with certain players, coaches and teams. He referred to some being allowed to work out at team facilities. Obviously an NBA star could sign autographs for the refs' relatives or friends, take pictures with them, etc.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:22 am

Brando70 wrote: Yes, but that's a completely different issue. There are superstar rules in every league. Better players definitely get the calls.

What I don't believe is that there was a concerted effort to fix games by the NBA.

I think better players get the calls in other sports here and there. Jerry Rice would get the benefit of the doubt on push-offs or Clemens would get pitches just off the plate. But most of the time umps would call pitches the same for both pitchers. In the NBA it's so obvious that there is a separation. Just grazing Kobe Bryant's and you get called for a foul. Now that Shaq is no longer a superstar they don't let him run over people like he used to. Why? He's doing the same things now that he was then.

If the league can tell officials who they want to be monitored more closely for this or that, isn't that a fix? The transparency Stern promised when the Donaghy story broke hasn't quite lived up to the advance billing. What is a foul and what isn't? Make it clear and call it that way for everyone. Teams get jobbed by officials in every sport yet the NBA is the only one that has always had the public perception of being fixed.

When Donaghy made his allegations about the NBA, was he under oath? He could be charged with lying to the feds during a federal investiagtion, right? Why would he want to add more to his legal troubles?

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:49 pm

The Feds are wanting to open an investigation into the NBA, but they need a good reason to do so (ref point shaving for example).

Plus, the NBA is suing Donaghy for their 'legal fees' (dumbest move ever), so Donaghy is gonna stick it to them.... Why the NBA chose to do this during the playoffs is beyond me.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:01 pm

Apparently in the past, when Stern was questioned about allegations of game fixing, he'd say to the questioner that the question implies he's guilty of fraud, for which he could sue the questioner for defamation.

Then he'd challenge the questioner whether he wanted to continue going down that road.

So given that kind of arrogance, it's not surprising they'd try to stick it to Donaghy and then see it backfire.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:49 pm

DAAAAAAYYYYAAAAAMMMMMM!!!!!!

i turned the game off after the 1st qtr. put it on the 4th to check the score and was surprised to see the celts were up. Ray Allen on that basket with 20 seconds was toooooooooooo easy. I think I could have walked down that lane and got that bucket.

Game 5 : expect the Celts to lay down

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:21 am

1 more baby!!!

BEAT L.A.!!!

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:08 am

That was fun. Kobe must not have instilled quite enough DNA into his teammates. He'd better get back to it. Poor Vujacic!

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:43 pm

Did you see the post game by Kobe. Talking about getting drunk by naming numerous alcoholic beverages to forget the loss.

What a great role model for the kids.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nup ... 575.column

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:54 pm

Inuyasha wrote:Did you see the post game by Kobe. Talking about getting drunk by naming numerous alcoholic beverages to forget the loss.

What a great role model for the kids.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nup ... 575.column

Not a fan of Kobe but I won't fault him for that. He just came off of a devastating loss and basically the series so he was rightfully pissed. He probably wasn't thinking about being a role model at that moment.

EDIT: I find that he walked off with 3 seconds to go to be more disturbing.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:30 pm

Inuyasha wrote:Did you see the post game by Kobe. Talking about getting drunk by naming numerous alcoholic beverages to forget the loss.

What a great role model for the kids.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nup ... 575.column

Oh please, if your kids are looking to the NBA for role models, it's time for a "sit down" with them...

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:19 am

Ass kicking. No heart on the lakers, at least show up, lose by at least 10, NOT 40!

Anyway , I love it since I hate that jagoff kobe.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:23 am

YESSS!!!

NBA CHAMPIONSS!!!

NY Giants and now the C's!

Now if only the Mets......

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:46 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
jLp vAkEr0 wrote:Game - Set - Match!

Celtics are in the finals. Damn, how long I've waited!
Don't get too excited...they are gonna get rolled.

Good call.

You've been watching the West for to long.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:52 am

How Rondo comes away with rebounds even when Gasol or Odom have position on him is amazing. And when Gasol starts shooting fadeaways one-on-one against Paul Pierce in the post then you know your team is soft. It was nice to see Odom with some fire in his eyes...too bad it was the 4th quarter and they were down 31. The Lakers really could've used Bynum for some interior toughness in this series.

Gotta hand it to the Celtics, no one would've beaten them last night. It was nice to see the smiles on the faces of the big 3, but I'm really happy for Doc Rivers - a classy guy who has taken a lot of criticism.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:21 am

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:YESSS!!!

NBA CHAMPIONSS!!!

I always wonder about these posts, that come right after the poster's team wins it all... if I live long enough to see a championship in this town, in any sport, would I be in any condition to be operating a computer or typing anything right afterwards? I would guess not, at least for a few days.

Oh well, nice job Celtics! It's kind of encouraging that the Cavs put up a much better fight against them than the Lakers did.

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:47 am

As a long suffering Celtics fan (last year.... yikes), I can't believe they won. Thank you Kevin McHale!

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:55 am

Congrats to the Celtics, but more importantly former KU Jayhawk, and now NBA MVP....PAUL PIERCE!!!!!!!!

You've just punched your ticket to the Hall of Fame.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:21 am

[quote="sportdan30"]Congrats to the Celtics, but more importantly former KU Jayhawk, and now NBA MVP....PAUL PIERCE!!!!!!!!

You've just punched your ticket to the Hall of Fame.[/quote

I have always been a fan of Pierce but did not think he quite had what it took. But this whole playoff he just played outstanding. He continued to make big play after big play. The best part of his game though, was his defense. He has always been a little slow of foot, but really learned to play D this year. Much kudos to Thibideau(sp?) and KG.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:29 pm

Pierce really impressed me in the finals. Not just how he elevated his game but the leadership he brought to the series.

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:15 pm

Pete wrote: I have always been a fan of Pierce but did not think he quite had what it took. But this whole playoff he just played outstanding. He continued to make big play after big play. The best part of his game though, was his defense. He has always been a little slow of foot, but really learned to play D this year. Much kudos to Thibideau(sp?) and KG.

Count me in as a Pierce doubter before this season. I thought we would never win anything with him, but the entire playoffs, he was outstanding and the Finals was just icing.