EA's broken game (MVP lefty bug)

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:44 pm

Im just curious.

I had a bad day.

sorry if that came out wrong.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:44 pm

Try playing the rockies in franchise mode.

Preston Wilson, Castilla are monsters yet when I get to Helton, Walker and Burnitz I can't hit it out of the park and yet I make some really great swings.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:29 pm

my homerun leaders for my Pads franchise are Giles and Klesko. Two lefies. As a matter of fact my last 5 HR's are from left handed bats. 1 from Long, 2 form Giles, 1 from Klesko, and 1 from Burroughs.

This is on All-Star with slightly tweaked slliders. Since this whole thing was brought up, I have struggled to hit with power from the right side of the plate.

Toper · Post by **Toper** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:52 pm

bkrich83 wrote:my homerun leaders for my Pads franchise are Giles and Klesko. Two lefies. As a matter of fact my last 5 HR's are from left handed bats. 1 from Long, 2 form Giles, 1 from Klesko, and 1 from Burroughs.

This is on All-Star with slightly tweaked slliders. Since this whole thing was brought up, I have struggled to hit with power from the right side of the plate.

Hey BK, how's it going. How are Long, Hernandez working out for you in your franchise? Kotsay has been "as advertised" for me sofar: great leadoff hitter w/speed, and patrols my centerfield well.

Ever since this has been brought up, I am also now struggling to hit homeruns from both sides of the plate, and just lost 2of3 to the Royals...thanks alot guys!

Toper

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:15 pm

Toper wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:my homerun leaders for my Pads franchise are Giles and Klesko. Two lefies. As a matter of fact my last 5 HR's are from left handed bats. 1 from Long, 2 form Giles, 1 from Klesko, and 1 from Burroughs.

This is on All-Star with slightly tweaked slliders. Since this whole thing was brought up, I have struggled to hit with power from the right side of the plate.
Hey BK, how's it going. How are Long, Hernandez working out for you in your franchise? Kotsay has been "as advertised" for me sofar: great leadoff hitter w/speed, and patrols my centerfield well.

Ever since this has been brought up, I am also now struggling to hit homeruns from both sides of the plate, and just lost 2of3 to the Royals...thanks alot guys!

Toper

Hey Toper!!

Hernandez has been up and down. But he's gotten hot as late. Long is basically my 4th OF, but has played well off the bench, and hit a bomb off of Nen the other night to win a ball game.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:56 pm

Something's not right, at least in the home run derby.

I had a few free minutes while the wife and kids went shopping, so I did some testing.

Setup: All tests were in NA Colesium (A's park). No wind. Both batter were same side. I controlled one for a while, but in later tests let the CPU control both.

I didn't write down the details, but I noticed a definite pattern. The righties hit more HRs and always had a longer shot. I ran a few games with both lefties, then a few with both righties. Scott Rolen had more homers and a longer shot than Thome, DelGado, Giambi, or Griffey.

I don't know how EA could F&*k something like this up, but it does loo to be ture, at least in the HR derby mode.

-Matt

K_Mosley · Post by **K_Mosley** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:40 am

Well, it seems to me that this might only occur in HR Derby, which I can live with. If the lefty's are hitting okay during the season, as bk and others have initimated, this won't affect my feelings about MVP. The HR Derby is just a fun diversion; I could honestly live without it...

Kevin

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:32 am

I really believe it affects the game everywhere, Kev, unfortunately.

There is something off about the right handed opposite field power as well...the ball just launches off righties bats going the opposite way.

Maybe the 'righties push' and 'lefties pull' results got mixed up in the code somewhere.

I guess it comes down to what you can tolerate. You can hit HR's with lefties..you are just at a handicap doing so. Even in regular games, you can see the difference off the bat.

It pisses me off beyond belief, personally, because without it I'd be keeping and enjoying the game.

K_Mosley · Post by **K_Mosley** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:42 pm

Say it ain't so, Web!

Honestly, I need to get some serious play time with this title this weekend. to see if it's worth keeping or not, especially since ASB comes out next week.

I appreciate your feedback, and everyone else's.

Kevin

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:25 pm

I'm really torn now. I could deal with the other issues. I can get walks, I have seen CPU steals, and the triples have all but vanished (except when they are supposed to be there). There seems to be a workaround for player progression, if I even get that far. Completing 1 season is an accomplishment for me.

But this problem, which I do believe is fact, bugs me. I don't know if I can play this game thinking that my best strategy is to just put all righties in my lineup. ASB is not even in my sights, and ESPN is way off in the distance, so that leaves MLB. I hate getting another PS2 game, but if that's my best option, I just may have to do it.

-Matt

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:30 pm

matthewk wrote:I'm really torn now. I could deal with the other issues. I can get walks, I have seen CPU steals, and the triples have all but vanished (except when they are supposed to be there). There seems to be a workaround for player progression, if I even get that far. Completing 1 season is an accomplishment for me.

Amen to *all* of this, Matt, for me. MVP could be my keeper for the year if this is addressed somehow, or there is some workaround. I'm monitoring the boards everywhere to see if anyone comes up with anything.

I even emailed EA, who directed me to their hintline.

MLB is okay, but I'm finding it too easy on the hardest levels from day one.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:37 pm

Sorry to be a pain, but can someone point me in the direction of the progression workround ?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:47 pm

matthewk wrote:I'm really torn now. I could deal with the other issues. I can get walks, I have seen CPU steals, and the triples have all but vanished (except when they are supposed to be there). There seems to be a workaround for player progression, if I even get that far. Completing 1 season is an accomplishment for me.

But this problem, which I do believe is fact, bugs me. I don't know if I can play this game thinking that my best strategy is to just put all righties in my lineup. ASB is not even in my sights, and ESPN is way off in the distance, so that leaves MLB. I hate getting another PS2 game, but if that's my best option, I just may have to do it.

-Matt

The lefty thing IMO is a myth. I'm not an MVP lover by any stretch, but left handed hitters hit plenty of homers in this game. I was messing with sliders last night and I hit 2 with Griffey and Dunn routinely goes deep. Can't get anymore left handed than that. Maybe the HR Derby thing is broken? I dunno. But I don't see lefties struggling in the game at all.

Dave:

The thread and link are here:

http://forums.simcentral.net/showthread.php?t=45464

He keeps updating it so check this thread often.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:54 pm

It's not just a matter of hitting HR's, Bill, It's pop off the bat.

Righties get much more, especially opposite field.

If you want a feel for it yourself, simply edit a player to go from left to right handed, or vice versa, and you can see a big diffefence at the plate.

I'll duplicate that test I quoted earlier for myself tonight, where a guy edited a team to all switch hitters with maxxed power, and had the a left handed and right handed version of the same pitcher pitch to each team as they played themselves.

The difference between those batting righty and those batting lefty was apparently enormous.

I also think you won't notice the problem as much on lower levels, as both sides can hit HR's easier.

JeffBarnes · Post by **JeffBarnes** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:26 pm

Blublub wrote:
GridIron_Assasin wrote:Obviously someone isnt being truthful.
I'm not so sure, seems like both sides may be partially right. At least that's the results of my "testing." In any event, I don't think any problem is worth losing sleep over. There are plenty of other things wrong with the game that are far worse.

And such is the crux of "Triple Play"...ahem....MVP Baseball. Too many bugs for consideration. You gotta barn tobacco; that's all there is to it. Amen.

But I'll never forget the time that you took FIFA 2002 and made one team w/giant players & one team w/tiny players to test heading. Obviously the headers were even 50/50 and this showed how crap this game was. Dynamite! Dynamito! Good job Lance.

Uh oh. Its time for NC State and Louisiana Lafayette and I've just got to watch that commercial!

Gotta run.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:03 pm

matthewk wrote:I'm really torn now. I could deal with the other issues. I can get walks, I have seen CPU steals, and the triples have all but vanished (except when they are supposed to be there). There seems to be a workaround for player progression, if I even get that far. Completing 1 season is an accomplishment for me.

But this problem, which I do believe is fact, bugs me. I don't know if I can play this game thinking that my best strategy is to just put all righties in my lineup. ASB is not even in my sights, and ESPN is way off in the distance, so that leaves MLB. I hate getting another PS2 game, but if that's my best option, I just may have to do it.

-Matt

How are you seeing walks, steals and other stuff. I'm not seeing any of it. Please tell me what you doing to have the CPU do this stuff?

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:39 pm

Thanks for the link Bill - shame mine's the Xbox version

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:00 pm

JRod wrote:
matthewk wrote:I'm really torn now. I could deal with the other issues. I can get walks, I have seen CPU steals, and the triples have all but vanished (except when they are supposed to be there). There seems to be a workaround for player progression, if I even get that far. Completing 1 season is an accomplishment for me.

But this problem, which I do believe is fact, bugs me. I don't know if I can play this game thinking that my best strategy is to just put all righties in my lineup. ASB is not even in my sights, and ESPN is way off in the distance, so that leaves MLB. I hate getting another PS2 game, but if that's my best option, I just may have to do it.

-Matt
How are you seeing walks, steals and other stuff. I'm not seeing any of it. Please tell me what you doing to have the CPU do this stuff?

How am I seeing them? By playing the game.

Seriously, I did some tests with Juan Pierre. I walked him at the beginning of each game to see if he would attempt a steal. After the half-inning I'd restart and do it again. He stole about 1 in 4 games. Not great, but the CPU does steal. In exhibition games I've had other runners steal on me. Is it correct? NO. But to say the CPU never steals is a lie.

As for walks, I try to stay patient. I have walked normally, been beaned, and have been intentionally walked. I have also swung at a number of ball fours. I have trouble walking the CPU, but that seems to be the case in MLB as well. Again, it's not correct, but walks do exist.

Not sure what you men by "other stuff".

-Matt

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:19 pm

JeffBarnes wrote:I'll never forget the time that you took FIFA 2002 and made one team w/giant players & one team w/tiny players to test heading. Obviously the headers were even 50/50 and this showed how crap this game was.

That was a fun one. Ah yes, videogame science projects. The sad thing is that I be if you went back and did the experiment with FIFA 2004 you'd end up with the same result. No way in hell I'M doing it again, though

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:48 pm

This is the best explaination I have found for the lefty "issue". This is taken from the EA Sports board:

"PLATFORM: XBox
GAME VERSION: Unknown
(How can you tell? It just came
out last Tuesday.)

I mention this only because nobody else has(only hinted)...here's what I found:

When you hit a fly ball with ANY left/right-handed batter, once the ball reaches it's maximum height and is now falling, pause the game and go to the Instant Replay. Freeze the replay while the ball is halfway between the batter and the pitcher. Now put the yellow circle so the camera is following the ball. Zoom all the way in on the ball so the ball, pitcher, and center field are all lined up. Now slowly play the instant replay and watch the spin of the ball while it's heading toward the batter. The ball is correctly spinning from bottom to top (for a fastball of course).

LEFTIES: You'll notice that no matter how you hit the ball (down, up, foul, line drive), immediately after the ball makes contact with the bat there is "Top spin" on the ball. This is why the ball doesn't travel as far and causes the ball to "drop" into the gap. I did hit one shot with Jason Giambi that was TOTALLY realistic: High inside fast ball (96-99 MPH Arthur Rhodes) that went into the upper deck at Yankee Stadium. That's about it though, and still had "top spin".

RIGHTIES: Now, with righties, anytime you hit the ball, there is "Back spin" or at least "Side spin" for oppies. Last night against Aneheim I hit 4 oppy dingers with A-Rod in Aneheim, all "side spinners", and none were jaw dropping pills. The dummy CPU kept putting it up and away!! The 4th one was in the Top of the 14th inning (I still havn't mastered Kevin Brown yet).

MY CONCLUSION:

As a left handed hitter, I can confirm that left handed hitters DO have a lot of Top spin on the ball. It's just a habbit that many of us have to break with a lot of time and practice. We are said to have a "natural home run swing" and basically what that means is we tend to dip our shoulder more often then not. To overcome this problem we end up getting on top of the ball which, in turn, causes us to hit line drives or as mentioned before, we get a lot of top spin. I feel that EA had this in mind when creating this beautifully designed baseball simulator. I personally believe it is the best baseball game out there, but EA did go a little over board on the whole "Top spin" thing. "

It makes sense. I know there was a difference in the HR showdown, and I'm sure it's in the regular games too. Lefties can still jack them out, but it's like they have a restrictor plate attached to them. At least they can still hit well, just not as far. I guess what we need is apower slider for righties AND lefties

So who's gonna be the one to adjust ALL the hitters of one side up/down?

-Matt

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:16 pm

Man, the great lengths people will go to in order to trash an EA game. This is ridiculous. This is just utter bullshit. Who really gives a f*** what happens in Home Run Derby mode? The hitting in HRD is completely different than in-game so how exactly does this prove anything? HRD is also meant to be an arcade experience so of course they want to keep it close no matter what so people will have fun playing it. All I know is I lost 4-1 last night to the Dodgers and their 4 runs were accounted for by 2 homeruns by lefties. I still can't believe that is how this was tested.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:48 pm

Try simple observation, then, on how the ball comes off the bat of your lefty hitters in regular game modes.

It's a completely different effect than it is for righties.

Again, the issue is not that lefties cannot hit home runs, but that righties have a distinct hitting advantage.

I'm also getting a bit annoyed at the people who haven't yet observed the glitch screaming about a vast anti-ea conspiracy, ready to attribute the multitudes of posts regarding this to some back room bash EA scheme.

I *like* this game, but to me this is a serious issue.

Watch hits with replays, switch lefties to righties and watch the power numbers surge...there are numerous ways to see this.

Heck, even watch every hit you get. You'll see that lefties consistantly have a sinking aspect to their hits, while righties will get the backspin and loft.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:02 pm

"I'm also getting a bit annoyed at the people who haven't yet observed the glitch screaming about a vast anti-ea conspiracy, ready to attribute the multitudes of posts regarding this to some back room bash EA scheme. "

You really mean to tell me that this kind of s*** would happen over a non-EA game? Yeah right. People love to dissect EA games and look for anything possible in them to scream bloody murder over. Come on web, people running scientific experiments of the AI in a f***in videogame? That seems normal to you? That happens with Sega games? That happens with Konami games? No, it doesn't. What would happen if someone proclaimed a glitch in Winning Eleven that left-footed kickers were at a disadvantage to right-footed kickers in WE:7? It'll never happen because nobody would bother dissecting the game like that. The fact of the matter is I never noticed this glitch before it was mentioned nor have I since it was mentioned. The lefties are doing just fine when I play the game (both power and contact), but there's my magical Xbox at work again.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:08 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:You really mean to tell me that this kind of s*** would happen over a non-EA game? Yeah right. People love to dissect EA games and look for anything possible in them to scream bloody murder over. Come on web, people running scientific experiments of the AI in a f***ing videogame? That seems normal to you? That happens with Sega games? That happens with Konami games? No, it doesn't.

I think this happens, Scoop, when a whole f***in bunch of people seeing a glitch try to get shouted down by people on message boards that they must just suck, or be f***in insane. Then when some 'proof' is offered, they get trashed for dissecting the game too much?

As far as Sega, this to me is at least as much of a glitch as the 'steal second as much as you want' glitch in last year's WSB, and the super-goalies in ESPN hockey.

Were those games ripped? Hell Yes! I remember 'stealing experiments' and stupid amouts of goalie editing. How is this different?

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:12 pm

And for the record, I have not seen a single response from people believing the glitch is imaginary that says they DO NOT see these things when they are told what to look for.

I get a lot of "I hit homeruns with lefties," but that is not the friggin point.

If it doesn't bother you, that's fine, but I can't quite understand the problem folks have with people voicing this complaint, which is far more 'gameplay-related' over a lot the extra stuff that gets complained about with out a significant backlash.