OT: 2008 Elections

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:45 pm

A CBS tracking poll is showing McCain up 48 to 36 over Obama among independents.

Clinton has moved over Obama in national polls and is up 16 points in PA.

Are these trends or will the polls change in a couple of weeks?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:55 pm

Hillarys rocking race war eve...

Oh and a link for all you Clinton stooges

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/us/po ... paign.html

Cause God knows she can do no wrong....

backbreaker · Post by **backbreaker** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:17 am

I normally don't get invovled in political discussions because people are intolerable of one another most times. Now a friend of mine sent me this you tube stuff of the speeches that the media have been showing of Rev Wright, Now I am a victim in believe what I was shown, I now know the media is filled with a bunch of liars. They smeared this man to know end and played those snippets of God dam america and USKKKA way out of context. Just check out the full sermon and this guy was a corpman who assisted in a surgery of Lydon B. Johnson. I have no political party but I don't like a high tech lynching. I'm just amazed how the media hoodwinked America, WOW

http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/

http://uk.youtube.com/user/TRINITYCHGO

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:42 am

wco81 wrote:A CBS tracking poll is showing McCain up 48 to 36 over Obama among independents.

Clinton has moved over Obama in national polls and is up 16 points in PA.

Are these trends or will the polls change in a couple of weeks?

I think Clinton will trounce Obama in PA, but the national poll is as useful as tits on a bull. It's a million news cycles until the general, mountains can be built and erode in that time.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:50 am

Yes there's a lot of time left and polls can change.

But Zogby is now showing that McCain is up on both Obama and Clinton by 8 points or so.

In Obama's case, it's a reversal of 15-20 points since February, when Obama was up about 8 points.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:45 pm

What do I know, I'm just a "typical white person".

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:19 am

fsquid wrote:What do I know, I'm just a "typical white person".

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:45 am

fsquid wrote:What do I know, I'm just a "typical white person".

It'd probably be best, if your going to make a play on the man's words that you at least keep it in the complete context that he was describing his grandmother as opposed to making it sound like the guy is a racist.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:17 am

The context here is of little consequence. If John McCain or Hillary Clinton described *anyone* as a "typical black person" and then indicated that said typicality consisted of stereotypical behavior it would bring about a shitstorm of epic proportions.

Now double standards are a way of life when it comes to race on all sides, so I understand if Obama isn't held to the same standard...but it's funny nonetheless.

Hell, I personally have no problems with generalizations about race or ethnicity. Growing up in Chicago makes such comments de rigeur by age 4, as you know, Gamer LOL I just hope that we're all as open minded when Obama arrives late for something and Hillary says that he must be on CPT like a typical black person...

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:53 am

Well I think that every news outlet is making a big deal out. If you look around the web and on the different cable newstations, the pundits are talking about it, so its not like he's getting a pass. Unless people want him to drop his candidacy because of it.

And Bill Clinton already is trying to steer opinion by insinuation after the Wright controversy that only McCain and Clinton are patriotic, and by calling Barack "the black candidate, and minimizing Barack SC primary victory by saying Jesse Jackson won SC also when he was running.

I just hate to see, people take bits and pieces of what people say and spinning it to fit their opinions.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:48 am

TheGamer wrote:And Bill Clinton already is trying to steer opinion by insinuation after the Wright controversy that only McCain and Clinton are patriotic, and by calling Barack "the black candidate, and minimizing Barack SC primary victory by saying Jesse Jackson won SC also when he was running.

I just hate to see, people take bits and pieces of what people say and spinning it to fit their opinions.

Talk about taking bits and spinning opinions...

"This past week Bill Clinton gave an interview discussing his comments regarding Jesse Jackson made when he was in SC. He says he was pointing out an observation that after Obama won Iowa that the African American community in other states would in great numbers support Obama. He went on to state that the reason for this is identification with a candidate. President Clinton says there is nothing wrong with making this observation."

But of course it's not spin to say that he is trying to minimize Obama and be a racist.

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:07 pm

Where did I call him a racist? Bill Clinton is a very experienced politician. I voted for him twice. But it still doesn't take away that both he and Hillary are very intelligent and very savvy when making public comments. Bill knows what societal buttons to push to get desired coverage and response.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:35 pm

Obama's typical comment was a rookie mistake.

If he didn't say typical, the statement wouldn't have been made into this big of a deal. A slip up like this isn't going to hurt you but if you continue to make these little mistakes it's going to hurt his candidacy.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:34 pm

TheGamer wrote:
fsquid wrote:What do I know, I'm just a "typical white person".
It'd probably be best, if your going to make a play on the man's words that you at least keep it in the complete context that he was describing his grandmother as opposed to making it sound like the guy is a racist.

The double standard in this country is over the top. Any white politician that make's this statement especially after the fallout from attending Rev Wrong's church for the last 20 years, is run out of the election process on a rail. He stepped on his dick again. Wasn't very smart.

Do I believe Obama is racist? 3 weeks ago the answer would be no. But after his wife's comments and the fact he had his children attending services where racist comments were responded too with vigorous "Amens" I really don't know.

After watching all of this unfold. It sickens me that some people in my race use ignorance from the past as an excuse to be ignorant today. Two wrongs don't make it right, just doesn't seem to apply for some of us.

In his speech, Barack listed black grievances and informed us what white America must do to close the racial divide and heal the country.

The “white community,” said Barack, must start “acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination — and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past — are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds … .”

And what deeds must white folks perform to heal ourselves and our country?

The “white community” must invest more money in black schools and communities, enforce civil rights laws, ensure fairness in the criminal justice system and provide this generation of blacks with “ladders of opportunity” that were “unavailable” to Barack’s and the Rev. Wright’s generations.

What is wrong with Barack’s prognosis and Barack’s cure?

Only this. It is the same old con, the same old shakedown that black hustlers have been running since the Kerner Commission blamed the riots in Harlem, Watts, Newark, Detroit and a hundred other cities on, as Nixon put it, “everybody but the rioters themselves.”

Was “white racism” really responsible for those black men looting auto dealerships and liquor stories, and burning down their own communities?

Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America.

Fair enough. But this time, it has to be a two-way conversation. White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to.

This time, the Silent Majority needs to have its convictions, grievances and demands heard. And among them are these:

First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.

Second, no people anywhere have done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream.

Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks , with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas to advance black applicants over white applicants.

Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all over America have donated time and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for blacks.

Whites hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?

Barack talks about new “ladders of opportunity” for blacks.

Let him go to Altoona PA or Youngstown OH, and ask the white kids in Catholic schools how many were visited lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for “deserving” white kids.

Is white America really responsible for the fact that the crime and incarceration rates for African-Americans are seven times those of white America? Is it really white America’s fault that illegitimacy in the African-American community has hit 70 percent and the black dropout rate from high schools in some cities has reached 50 percent?

Is that the fault of white America or, first and foremost, a failure of the black community itself?

As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?

Is Barack aware that black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as the reverse?

We have all heard ad nauseam from the Rev. Al about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena. And all turned out to be hoaxes. But about the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real, we hear nothing. As a black American I am embarrassed.

Post by **Jared** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:52 pm

You know, he addressed what the black community needed to do to heal the racial divide in the speech as well. His speech wasn't just blame whitey. Here's one quick excerpt (and I believe there were more):

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances - for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives - by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

Ironically, this quintessentially American - and yes, conservative - notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright's sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.

If you're going to characterize his position, please do it fairly.

And as for the other stuff, there's a lot that doesn't make sense. But to pick on one thing, your statistic ("white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time") is meaningless since there are less blacks in America than whites. In fact, the neutral condition (randomly committing crimes against any race) would have blacks criminals "choosing" white victims about 75 percent of the time...much more than what actually happens. I don't think there's any evidence of blacks hunting whites...it's more that there are fewer blacks, and a higher crime rate for blacks.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:04 pm

I think Jack Dog's opinion piece was excellent except that I want to propose one small modification. While it's true that the United States is the best place in the world for a Black individual to become rich - I believe it's worked pretty well for White folks too - I think overall Cuba would be the number one country in the world in which to be Black. The United States would be number two in my guess.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:08 pm

The US would be the #1 place in the world for a Greek person to be rich.

Greece would be #14.....

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:30 pm

Jared wrote:You know, he addressed what the black community needed to do to heal the racial divide in the speech as well. His speech wasn't just blame whitey. Here's one quick excerpt (and I believe there were more):

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances - for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives - by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

Ironically, this quintessentially American - and yes, conservative - notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright's sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.
If you're going to characterize his position, please do it fairly.

And as for the other stuff, there's a lot that doesn't make sense. But to pick on one thing, your statistic ("white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time") is meaningless since there are less blacks in America than whites. In fact, the neutral condition (randomly committing crimes against any race) would have blacks criminals "choosing" white victims about 75 percent of the time...much more than what actually happens. I don't think there's any evidence of blacks hunting whites...it's more that there are fewer blacks, and a higher crime rate for blacks.

Whitey?

That was the way Pat Buchanan put it. I didn't agree with that but I agreed with his thoughts and echoed his sentiments.

You want me to be fair? I posted as a black man and my opinion of his speech on my black grievances. That's about as fair as I get unless I wake up white one morning. If that ever becomes the case i'll weigh in on he demands of the black community.

I said nothing about blacks hunting whites so please get off of that s***. The numbers don't lie. A minority represents the majority in this country's prisons. It is what it is.Why?

Give me your answer. I am assuming your white. I am pretty sure your a liberal. So please tell me why my folks can't stay out of jail or the morgue? Why does every city with a high amount of black residents suffer from such high crime rates? The same doesn't hold true for mostly white cities,why?

Why did I lose 16 brothers and cousins to gun violence? Was it because of the white man? They sure as hell didn't pull any triggers on my family. So why? Slavery? Don't worry about that. Bill Clinton already said he was sorry. And that's a bullshit argument anyhow. Unless you have " White Guilt". If so don't worry about it.

Most of the middle class whites in the USA are descendants of people who immigrated from other countries AFTER the emancipation proclamation, signed by Abraham Lincoln in 1863, or whose ancestors had arrived shortly before the Civil War, for instance, the Irish fleeing the potato famine of 1847.

None of those whites were in any kind of situation to own much property, never mind property in slave states, much less slaves.

So I'd like to ask you, why should middle class whites feel any guilt over transatlantic slavery? How many middle class whites have even one ancestor who owned a plantation or worked in a trade associated with the transatlantic slavery trade? Are the above-mentioned whites more guilty than the African tribes whose warriors raided neighboring villages to sell their enemies to the Europeans?

Are there more important issues than "middle class white guilt over transatlantic slavery" to those very same middle class white prospective voters in this year's Presidential campaign?

Record numbers of voters of every ethnic background are participating in the Democrat primaries and caucases, most of them white. Do you sincerely believe they would not want to live next door to Obama but would gladly have him as Commander in Chief?

My father of 81 years lived through Jim Crow and marched with Dr King. He made a statement to me last week about the racial divide today verses the 50' and 60's. He called it an imaginary fault line and expressed how sad it is to see our people explot it to avoid accountability on being just plain stupid.

He said he was happy that he lived long enough to see many different people of color come to this country and succeed. They ovecome language barriers and take advantage of the many opportunities this country has to offer. That's why he fought for Civil Rights. So all people were treated the same. My father was on point in my opinion. That ment more to me than anything Obama said in his speech.

Long story short. I am tired of hearing people in my race ask for things others don't. No one makes someone do drugs or sell them. No one makes someone join a gang and have no respect for human life let alone their own. No one should get a pass for bad behavior because of their race.

It's choices. And if you make a wrong one be accountable and move on. Don't play the race card everytime you f*** up. Kwame Kilpatrick vs Eliot Spitzer is a perfect example. Spitzer did the right thing and stepped down. Kilpatrick,not so much.My niece sums up Kwame in her blog. http://www.thoughts.com/sasmith/blog/i- ... ick-78589/

If you dig Obama that's great. He had me until about 2 weeks ago. Now I am voting for McCain no matter who wins the Democratic ticket.

PS brother. I love you man! If I come across as an ass it's because I am.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:55 pm

Why doesn't Hillary concede? Seriously. Her chances of winning are now slim to none, now that FL and MI have said they wont do a re-vote and most of the Super Delegates have agreed to vote with whoever has won more delegates. She is only hurting her own party by continuing to run and continuing to dig and sling mud at Obama. McCain's poll number have been steadily going up in recent weeks, where a month ago, Obama was polled to be McCain by 5% points. The longer she stays in the race and attacks Obama, the more McCain has to gain from all this. Her only hope was FL and Mi and now that that's gone, she should step down.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:58 pm

JackB1 wrote:Why doesn't Hillary concede? Seriously. Her chances of winning are now slim to none, now that FL and MI have said they wont do a re-vote and most of the Super Delegates have agreed to vote with whoever has won more delegates. She is only hurting her own party by continuing to run and continuing to dig and sling mud at Obama. McCain's poll number have been steadily going up in recent weeks, where a month ago, Obama was polled to be McCain by 5% points. The longer she stays in the race and attacks Obama, the more McCain has to gain from all this. Her only hope was FL and Mi and now that that's gone, she should step down.

The polls mean nothing. There's been no press about McCain which is the same as good press. Where it's helped McCain is too establish lines of attack. Which if McCain plays the race card like Hillary, I don't think it will play the same in this country.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:29 pm

JRod wrote:
JackB1 wrote:Why doesn't Hillary concede? Seriously. Her chances of winning are now slim to none, now that FL and MI have said they wont do a re-vote and most of the Super Delegates have agreed to vote with whoever has won more delegates. She is only hurting her own party by continuing to run and continuing to dig and sling mud at Obama. McCain's poll number have been steadily going up in recent weeks, where a month ago, Obama was polled to be McCain by 5% points. The longer she stays in the race and attacks Obama, the more McCain has to gain from all this. Her only hope was FL and Mi and now that that's gone, she should step down.
The polls mean nothing. There's been no press about McCain which is the same as good press. Where it's helped McCain is too establish lines of attack. Which if McCain plays the race card like Hillary, I don't think it will play the same in this country.

I agree John. McCain would be very wise to stay away from race in this election.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:29 pm

JackB1 wrote:Why doesn't Hillary concede? Seriously. Her chances of winning are now slim to none, now that FL and MI have said they wont do a re-vote and most of the Super Delegates have agreed to vote with whoever has won more delegates. She is only hurting her own party by continuing to run and continuing to dig and sling mud at Obama. McCain's poll number have been steadily going up in recent weeks, where a month ago, Obama was polled to be McCain by 5% points. The longer she stays in the race and attacks Obama, the more McCain has to gain from all this. Her only hope was FL and Mi and now that that's gone, she should step down.

It looks like Hilary is taking this all the way to the convention.

TheHiddenTrack · Post by **TheHiddenTrack** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:45 pm

Well, if she keeps Obama from beating McCain then she can run again in four years. I'd hope that wasn't the reason but it seems plausible. Whoever wins the presidency is going to have a hell of a time cleaning up after this disaster anyways and she probably thinks McCain will sink the country down even farther and then the Clinton's can come in and save the day.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:48 pm

What's the difference between what Obama's pastor said and what Pat Robertson has said over the last 12 years. Saying that we deserved 911 etc since we live in sin blah blah blah. I don't see nobody going after GWB since he and Pat Robertson are close buddies.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:14 pm

Inuyasha wrote:What's the difference between what Obama's pastor said and what Pat Robertson has said over the last 12 years. Saying that we deserved 911 etc since we live in sin blah blah blah. I don't see nobody going after GWB since he and Pat Robertson are close buddies.

Whether or not it influences Obama and what is the result? That's what you should ask yourself.